sell on Steam?

[Spitzenhund]

And 99.90% wouldn't play them anyway.

 

Do you seriously think that someone who plays a game about a goat or a farming sim is going to work through the learning curve of Combat Mission games ?

 

I don't care either way, so long as they continue to sell their games. But if they do eventually end up on Steam, I hope they still produce a Steam-less option for people like me who just don't like unnecessary crap running in the background.

I don't believe you understand just how large and diverse the steam community is. You have people playing stuff from Europa Universalis 3 to Tabletop Simulator to Eurotruck Simulator. The steam community has changed a great deal from the early days of Half Life, Counter Strike and TF. It's a huge mistake to think that a community for Combat Mission could not be found on Steam.

Other than that I'm really confused to the other complaints on this thread other than the business model. "Invasive DRM"? What? It's 2015, by now you should have stable internet for at least the 10 seconds it takes to log into steam. After that it doesn't matter what happens to your internet. It can go out and you just switch to Offline mode. And yes Offline mode does work and your very foolish or not receptive to new technology if you think it doesn't work.

[Doug Williams]

Am I supposed to be impressed now? I started on 8" ones, so get off my lawn you young whippersnapper.

 

 

Nah, you are probably around 18-25 years old, at the most. You are new here, and, like many noobs who think too highly of themselves, you come on here claiming vast knowledge and experience in computer game development and marketing, and try to "help" BFC make correct marketing decisions based on your extensive knowledge of the current PC game market. You are mistaken.

 

No one on here really cares about your opinion of how BFC should run their company, Junior Member M0317624. Good luck convincing us, and BFC, otherwise. :-)

Edited January 4, 2015 by Doug Williams

[Spitzenhund]

Using arguments about bending and breaking to a company that has survived over 15 years in this industry and is growing leaves most of us scratching our heads as to what you are thinking and suspecting you are pretty new to Battlefront.  No offense, but 13 posts doesn't exactly do much to alter that suspicion.

 

Saying a company survived for 15 years proves nothing to future success if they aren't willing to adapt to the change. I haven't been around BF for all too long so I am not sure how they have changed their marketing or image over the past 15 years (if at all). But you have to follow the change if you want your company to continue its success. Sure BF could survive by being a really small company that makes you pay for patches and makes their games very expensive to adapt to the low demand because of the games obscurity. But that wouldn't really be thriving from what I see the new technology from CMSF to now is very limited compared to say Civilization from Civ IV Beyond the Sword to now.

[Doug Williams]

More like 1997 or earlier.

 

Michael

 

 

Good point, Michael. 

[Spitzenhund]

Nah, you are probably around 18-25 years old, at the most. You are new here, and, like many noobs who think too highly of themselves, you come on here claiming vast knowledge and experience in computer game development and marketing, and try to "help" BFC make correct marketing decisions based on your extensive knowledge of the current PC game market. You are mistaken.

 

No one on here really cares about your opinion of how BFC should run their company, Junior Member M0317624. Good luck convincing us, and BFC, otherwise. :-)

If you don't have new people coming onto the forums arguing ideas then all you do is stagnant the series because with such a small community the ideas start to incestualize because people who are die hard fans are content with anything the series does as long as it sticks to the canon that they enjoy.

[Chazz]

Other than that I'm really confused to the other complaints on this thread other than the business model. "Invasive DRM"? What? It's 2015, by now you should have stable internet for at least the 10 seconds it takes to log into steam. After that it doesn't matter what happens to your internet. It can go out and you just switch to Offline mode. And yes Offline mode does work and your very foolish or not receptive to new technology if you think it doesn't work.

 

Really? we are going to do the whole ''It works for me, that means it work for everyone, unless said person is a retard" song and dance?

 

Well sir, I will have you know I indeed have a very stable internet connection so technically speaking I don't even need the offline mode. Yet Steam in all its brilliance sometimes decides the there is no internet and so it refuses to work. Yes that's right, it does not even offer offline mode most of the time, and when it does sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It is all a big toss up.

 

Now that's all technical issues that (should) be solved by valve eventually. I don't care about those. I do care that I am using -I will say it again- an intrusive DRM platform. You can be arrogant and dismissive about it as much as you want, but the rise and success of stuff like GOG.com and Humble and that most indie Kickstarters can't even make it without offering a DRM-Free option proves that there are a lot of people like me out there who prefer to have their gaming  outside of annoying third party platforms thank you very much.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Really? we are going to do the whole ''It works for me, that means it work for everyone, unless said person is a retard" song and dance?

 

Well sir, I will have you know I indeed have a very stable internet connection so technically speaking I don't even need the offline mode. Yet Steam in all its brilliance sometimes decides the there is no internet and so it refuses to work. Yes that's right, it does not even offer offline mode most of the time, and when it does sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It is all a big toss up.

 

Now that's all technical issues that (should) be solved by valve eventually. I don't care about those. I do care that I am using -I will say it again- an intrusive DRM platform. You can be arrogant and dismissive about it as much as you want, but the rise and success of stuff like GOG.com and Humble and that most indie Kickstarters can't even make it without offering a DRM-Free option proves that there are a lot of people like me out there who prefer to have their gaming  outside of annoying third party platforms thank you very much.

 

I don't remember a time there was a Steam outage in the past two years or so,  what you experienced was scheduled maintenance that happens around a certain time that I am sure you can look up. During that maintenance time if you are not logged in you can not login to Steam, however if you are online you will automatically be switched to offline mode.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Raptorx7

[Razgovory]

Make no mistake, going on to Steam entails some risk, just as continuing the same business model.  Combat Mission is niche, but not so niche as "99.90%" won't understand it.  That's just elitism talking.  Personally, I would hire more staff and try Steam.  But it's their company, and they can run it the way they want.

 

And God, do I wish was 18-25 years old!

[Spitzenhund]

Really? we are going to do the whole ''It works for me, that means it work for everyone, unless said person is a retard" song and dance?

 

Well sir, I will have you know I indeed have a very stable internet connection so technically speaking I don't even need the offline mode. Yet Steam in all its brilliance sometimes decides the there is no internet and so it refuses to work. Yes that's right, it does not even offer offline mode most of the time, and when it does sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It is all a big toss up.

 

Now that's all technical issues that (should) be solved by valve eventually. I don't care about those. I do care that I am using -I will say it again- an intrusive DRM platform. You can be arrogant and dismissive about it as much as you want, but the rise and success of stuff like GOG.com and Humble and that most indie Kickstarters can't even make it without offering a DRM-Free option proves that there are a lot of people like me out there who prefer to have their gaming  outside of annoying third party platforms thank you very much.

When is the last last time you used steam buddy? I've got thousands of hours logged into steam games and I don't think I have had a problem with steam logging me out for 4 years. And when I think of intrusive DRM I think of ubisoft and Silent Hunter V which would kick you out of game if you lost connection to the ubisoft platform for a split second. Not steam where you just have to be logged in for 10 seconds to activate your game. Then from there you can unplug your modem if you really wanted to.

[Spitzenhund]

Combat Mission is niche, but not so niche as "99.90%" won't understand it. That's just elitism talking.

Exactly, there is some really weird **** on steam that is very successful because of how diverse steam is. And with how popular a game like Ultimate General: Gettysburg I can't possibly see how a fully fleshed out tactical wargame wouldn't be successful on Steam. That's the kind of **** a great deal of people probably want. And your right about the elitism talking, I find Starcraft 2 has a much bigger learning curve than Combat Mission and Starcraft 2 is a bloody e-sport (although phasing out until Legacy of the Swarm saves it).

I don't like circlejerking but you made a good point.

[Doug Williams]

Bottom line, boys. BFC knows it's customer base, and WE DON'T CARE if CM is on Steam or not.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Bottom line, boys. BFC knows it's customer base, and WE DON'T CARE if CM is on Steam or not.

 

You are being just as ignorant/aggressive as the person you were just arguing with, obviously some of its customer base DOES want it on Steam (Including me) because topics are made pretty often by members new or old. Being a newer FORUM member means nothing if the person has been playing CM since it came out and didn't want to participate on the forums until now.

 

You really need to step off your high horse and accept the fact that Steam is something that is around and people like to use, some even in this community.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Raptorx7

[Pablius]

Without the intent of fueling a hot topic I just want to add that it would definitely be convenient for BF games to be on Steam, at least to me as a costumer

 

I recently bought Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations in their last sale, a very niche game/simulator, and it´s definitely a plus not to be hunting patches/fixes, I hope it soon gets Steam Workshop support

 

Paradox Interactive is another big success story about their transition to Steam, and so AGEOD it seems, since they are in the same group as Matrix and Slitherine

 

I won´t argue about it with BF, I don´t have the numbers nor data nor the entitlement feeling to tell them what to do, just my experience with other small/medium strategy focused companies that made that move, and it´s being positive so far, again, as a costumer

 

And I´ll keep buying BF games I like one way or the other

Edited January 4, 2015 by Pablius

[Spitzenhund]

Bottom line, boys. BFC knows it's customer base, and WE DON'T CARE if CM is on Steam or not.

It's not about the current customer base. Of course the current customer base doesn't care, they bought the game didn't they? It's about the potential customer base that will help expand the community which means more active forums and more user made content. And in the long term if it means a better game because more money to spend on technology and staff. If it wasn't for some random PC Gamer article that was showing the best wargames and me actually bothering to look at the last page of that article I would have never found out about combat mission. And that would be a real shame because I do really enjoy the series.

[frez13]

Wow, you seem to have a lot of experience. Been around a while, have you?

 

Before you answer, realize that many of us were buying our first games on 5 1/4" floppies, and that BFC has been successful since, what, 2000?

 

Successful, huh? I saw this in one of my order emails a while back and gave me the idea for this thread, and thought it could improve playerbase size, and possible be able reduce the cost of the games for being niche. Since the pricing was a turnoff for other people that would buy Battlefront games otherwise,

 

NO REFUND POLICY

Battlefront.com does not offer refunds for products purchased. We are a small company and simply can not afford to offer this kind of service. Larger companies can absorb such costs because they turn right around and pass the costs on the rest of their customers.

Edited January 4, 2015 by frez13

[sburke]

how does that have anything to do with success?  If you only measure a products value by the size of the company then have it it.  You will be surrounded to the end of your days with mediocrity.

[Chazz]

When is the last last time you used steam buddy? I've got thousands of hours logged into steam games and I don't think I have had a problem with steam logging me out for 4 years. And when I think of intrusive DRM I think of ubisoft and Silent Hunter V which would kick you out of game if you lost connection to the ubisoft platform for a split second. Not steam where you just have to be logged in for 10 seconds to activate your game. Then from there you can unplug your modem if you really wanted to.

 

Sigh...Again, no need for the "it never happened to me that means it doesn't exist" assumptions. While I do most of my gaming outside of Steam (if that wasn't obvious already), I still manage to use it once or twice a week. So I am talking about everything updated with latest patches not ancient history.

 

Now even if Uplay is slightly worse, Steam still falls in the same bucket as far as I am and many others are concerned. Because otherwise, there simply won't be any demand or reason for something like GOG.com to exist at all.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Once again like I pointed out in the other thread, people that want CM on Steam are not out to ruin CM we want it to succeed and do even better than it is right now. Treating new guys who come on to the site to see if it will be available on Steam like dirt does nothing except show how ignorant this community can be to new ideas, and that goes for including new features in game as well as steam.

[Spitzenhund]

Successful, huh? I saw this in one of my order emails a while back and gave me the idea for this thread, and thought it could improve playerbase size, and possible be able reduce the cost of the games for being niche.

 

NO REFUND POLICY

Battlefront.com does not offer refunds for products purchased. We are a small company and simply can not afford to offer this kind of service. Larger companies can absorb such costs because they turn right around and pass the costs on the rest of their customers.

To be fair how many game companies do have refund policies? For how easy it is to crack and non-DRM game once you get it I can see why companies wouldn't allow for it. I'm speaking out of my ass on this one though.

[MeatEtr]

FWIW I just bought Panzercorps the other week for 10 bucks on their steam sale. I'm loving it and plan on buying the expansion packs at whatever they cost, sale or no sale. Would I have bought the game for 30 from over at the Slitherine site, nope no sale. I've bought lots of games I never would of even heard of if not for Steam.

Would be interesting if BF try a test with their old CMx1 games with a Steam release. Or maybe CMSF just to sorta test the waters.

[sburke]

Once again like I pointed out in the other thread, people that want CM on Steam are not out to ruin CM we want it to succeed and do even better than it is right now. Treating new guys who come on to the site to see if it will be available on Steam like dirt does nothing except show how ignorant this community can be to new ideas, and that goes for including new features in game as well as steam.

I don't think anyone treated the OP like dirt.  Folks have simply repeated what has been repeated many many times before.  BF has said over and over again they aren't interested.  We then get told we are old school, BF is gonna fail, they charge too much, countless other customers have found steam to be the greatest thing since sliced bread yada yada yada.

 

If BF thought it would expand their sales and they wouldn't lose control of their product and they could continue to work the way they are comfortable they would probably already be on steam.  They are not and it isn't my place to tell them their business, nor is it anyone else's here.  It isn't like we haven't had this same discussion oh so many many times here already.

[Pelican Pal]

Bottom line, boys. BFC knows it's customer base, and WE DON'T CARE if CM is on Steam or not.

 

I think you are pushing it quite a bit there. There are definitely CM players who do care if it is on Steam or not.

 

Anyway, I would find it but the search function appears to be not working for stuff posted on the old forum. Anyway, in the before time there was a post in this post this was detalied: BFC contacted Valve about putting CM on Steam. They got to look at the contract and found that what was being offered wasn't better than what they had now. They decided to continue with the current system. AFAIK that situation has never changed.

 

There are also considerable risks to putting CM games on Steam. Some of these include:

 

#1: Coding time to hook the games into Steam. This requires that projects that are sure to make money are put off.

 

#2: Cannibalizing current customers at a lower price point. Right now 100% of money paid to BFC goes to BFC (not their own backend costs to support the store front). With Steam somewhere around 70% of the money paid in makes it to BFC. They need to make sufficient new customers to cover the loss of revenue from current customers going to Steam.

 

#3: The team at BFC is probably pretty old. The first game was announced in like 1999. So lets be generous and say that they were all 25 at the time. That would make them something like 40 years old.  Financial they individually probably cannot afford a setback at this point.

 

There are solid financial reasons for BFC to maintain it's own store front.

 

Personally I think a few of y'all can afford to calm down and stop throwing vast generalizations around.

[AttorneyAtWar]

I don't think anyone treated the OP like dirt.  Folks have simply repeated what has been repeated many many times before.  BF has said over and over again they aren't interested.  We then get told we are old school, BF is gonna fail, they charge too much, countless other customers have found steam to be the greatest thing since sliced bread yada yada yada.

 

If BF thought it would expand their sales and they wouldn't lose control of their product and they could continue to work the way they are comfortable they would probably already be on steam.  They are not and it isn't my place to tell them their business, nor is it anyone else's here.  It isn't like we haven't had this same discussion oh so many many times here already.

 

Fair enough, I just feel as if the tone some people have when these kinds of questions come up is a little to aggressive, I understand we see them all the time, but being antagonistic towards them every-time (Even if they themselves are as well) doesn't really solve anything.

[ASL Veteran]

Well the beauty of the way BFC is developing the game now is that should they ever decide to go onto Steam at some point in the future all the games they make will be up to date and current.  So really there is no need to rush onto Steam.  Maybe if sales slow to a trickle at some point then going onto Steam will make some sense.  BFC can also take their time and polish the game up and prepare themselves for Steam if that's a route they want to try. So you never know.  BFC has dealt with different ways of publishing ... I think ShockForce was sold in actual stores .... they just have an aversion to dealing with publishers.  I don't get the impression that BFC is absolutely 100% against it no matter what.  I am under the impression that they are continuously evaluating what their options for distribution are and at this time they have decided not to go the Steam route.  That doesn't mean that we won't all wake up one morning and see BFC games on Steam some day.  I doubt that forum postings are going to sway them one way or another though.  I'm sure the decision will be made in a deliberate fashion when or if it makes sense for BFC to go onto Steam.

 

I think that if BFC ever decided to go onto Steam they would want to do so making sure all their T's were crossed and the game was as polished as they could make it.  What is it that they say?  You never have a second chance to make a first impression, so if your game will suddenly be exposed to a larger audience you want to ensure that you are putting your best foot forward.  

Edited January 5, 2015 by ASL Veteran

[LukeFF]