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frez13

sell on Steam?

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I think a lot more people would be buying if this is put on Steam, such as Command Modern Air/Naval Operations. Any reason why it hasn't? Not feasible, etc? Out of curiosity, it should be considered though. I urge to put just CMBS on Steam and see if it sells better than expected?

Edited by frez13

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This topic has been discussed many times before. Those conversations can be searched for.

 

The short answer is that BF has looked into this very carefully and the cons of being on Steam outweigh the pros. So, there is zero chance CM will be on Steam, unless Steam makes changes to its policies that would alter the pro/con balance.

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Wouldn't steam mean having to log on and use an active internet connection each time U want to battle?

 

It would also mean Battlefront can get rid of its DRM system, saving the money it costs them and saving customers from the frequent problems with activations. It offers customers infinite re-downloading and possible Steam Workshop access for easy access to mods. And Steam has had an off-line mode for many years now.

 

This topic has been discussed many times before. Those conversations can be searched for.

 

The short answer is that BF has looked into this very carefully and the cons of being on Steam outweigh the pros. So, there is zero chance CM will be on Steam, unless Steam makes changes to its policies that would alter the pro/con balance.

 

Yeah yeah, I've heard the same excuses a dozen times before from other companies. And inevitably, once they actually try Steam, it turns out most of the cons were bull****, profits skyrocket and those companies can't get enough of Steam.

 

Look at Matrix Games. For years they claimed, just like Battlefront does, that their many years of publishing experience and all their sales data proved that going to Steam would only hurt their profits. Customers kept pushing them to Steam however, and now that they actually tried it, it turned out all their data and experience was quite simply wrong. Nearly every new game they publish gets a Steam release these days.

 

If Battlefront is smart, they'll embrace the future, as so many others have done and profited by. A game like Black Sea would top the Steam sale charts for at least a week, instead of being confined to obscurity on this tiny little corner of the internet. But as so often is being said, most wargaming developers and publishers are scared of both change and success.

Edited by m0317624

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I only buy games on steam these days. Combat Mission is the only exception. Works fine. No problems so far. It's nice to have everything in one place. 

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Regardless of what anyone thinks, the only opinions that count are at battlefront and the last very emphatic statement was absolutely not. And it doesn't sound like they really felt like discussing it again. My expectation is you will hear silence from them on this other than possibly Steve coming on like last time and saying no and closing the thread.

Google steam at battlefront site if you are really interested in the history of the discussion.

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Not gonna happen. Battlefront said that they won't put CM on steam and they'll say it again. Search the forum for details.

 

If you try to start an argument why it is better to publish CM on Steam be prepared. Unless you yourself have a long and succesfull history of publishing games you won't be able to argue with Steve.

 

My honest advice is to just forget it. You'll save yourself from a lot of trouble.

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Personally I have no problem with the way Battlefront publishes their games, in fact if they ever move to steam I would prefer to have a non-steam option available for me. There are many reasons for that, that I wont get into here, but since someone mentioned it, for me Steam offline mode is a joke, 9 times out of 10 it doesn't work. 

 

Most importantly IMO is that comparison with Matrix games is moot. Matrix problem is their outrageous pricing schemes not their choice of distribution platform. Now some people THINK that if they go on steam they would have to reduce their prices in sales and whatnot. But if they manage to keep their exact prices on steam as well then we have not benefited anything now did we? Actually it would be a net loss for me since the games are now riddled with an intrusive DRM platform (Because of that I don't buy any Steam game that is more than 10$, the games simply lose their value to me)

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Although Steam will take 30% of what is currently 100% Battlefront earnings, I believe completely and utterly that a move to steam would be a fantastic choice for Battlefront.

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I don't care one way or the other. I buy games on Steam, I buy games outside of Steam. For someone to say that they won't buy a game outside of Steam strikes me as ludicrous. If I want to buy and play a game, I'm going to do it whether it's on Steam or not. 

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I think a lot more people would be buying if this is put on Steam, such as Command Modern Air/Naval Operations. Any reason why it hasn't? Not feasible, etc? Out of curiosity, it should be considered though. I urge to put just CMBS on Steam and see if it sells better than expected?

If you analyse the original message - it's all about wanting CM to fare better/more than it already is.  However, of course these are decisions best left to the Big Cheese who know a thing or two for the past 10-15 years or so.. i - am not one of them. 

 

Just like Doug said, i buy games Steam or no Steam. Irrespective.

 

But Sales/Money/Predicting the future of CM modules and depending on the business plan has a lot to Factor In in this issue.

 

Looking forward to the CMBS and CM"BotB" !!

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Although Steam will take 30% of what is currently 100% Battlefront earnings, I believe completely and utterly that a move to steam would be a fantastic choice for Battlefront.

perhaps, perhaps not.  Not to be snide, but you don't have skin in the game (nor do I).  This isn't just a question for BF of DRM, numbers of sales etc.  They HAVE to make the right decision as it is their income and business at stake.  They are apparently quite comfortable with their current model so unless you can meet with them and do a presentation to prove what you feel, you will never ever get any traction saying "I think" or "I feel".  They won't and can't act on that.  Anyone who seriously wants to see BF on Steam, posting here on the forum is pointless.  Come up with the numbers and business model argument and contact BF.  I doubt they will meet, but you never know.  That is the only way they are ever going to reconsider - a serious business proposal not a forum post.

 

PS Frez you may want to remove that game link, unless you want to join us in the ranks of those who have had to stay after school writing 100 times - "I will not post commercial links on the forum."  ;)

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An analysis of Steam as a marketplace for your product  several years ago is worth as much as an analysis of Kmart as a retailer when they only had one corner shop and no footfall.  The dearth of publishers providing their own digital download service these days says everything.

Edited by Jock Tamson

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perhaps, perhaps not.  Not to be snide, but you don't have skin in the game (nor do I).  This isn't just a question for BF of DRM, numbers of sales etc.  They HAVE to make the right decision as it is their income and business at stake.  They are apparently quite comfortable with their current model so unless you can meet with them and do a presentation to prove what you feel, you will never ever get any traction saying "I think" or "I feel".  They won't and can't act on that.  Anyone who seriously wants to see BF on Steam, posting here on the forum is pointless.  Come up with the numbers and business model argument and contact BF.  I doubt they will meet, but you never know.  That is the only way they are ever going to reconsider - a serious business proposal not a forum post.

 

I disagree. I've seen several other developers and publishers make the same claims BF does about Steam. I've seen their forums flooded with countless topics where their customers ask and pressure about Steam, and I've seen countless people like you dismiss those efforts. And in almost every single case I've seen those companies give in to the pressure, join the future and profit immensely from it. I think the only case I've seen where it didn't happen, the company no longer exists.

 

Again, the choice is Battlefront's. But the people who keep asking for Steam are those who have BF's best interests in mind. And in the end, in my experience Battlefront will have to either bend... or break. Right now, very few gamers have even heard of these games. Obscurity and anonimity are never good for someone trying to sell a product, even though finding a niche might keep them alive for a while.

 

 

The dearth of publishers providing their own digital download service these days says everything.

 

Yes, it says that people realize what a massive amount of money can be made from Steam (by all parties involved) and want their share of the spoils. And the lack of success of these alternative services says even more.

Edited by m0317624

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They did use gamersgate for a short period, maybe that soured them.  My impression is that Battlefront is very careful about losing control of their stuff.  They have kept the company very small, despite being around for 15 years, they aren't exactly friendly to modding, and are resistant to publishiers that might decrease the price of their of products.  They are also very proudly niche, and there is an air of resentment about them.

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Also CMBN is available on Apple's app store but its stalled on upgradability since its release in 2012 and without module > https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/combat-mission-battle-for/id492808932?mt=12

 

So with that download service, their own store and if they go with Steam would mean 3 different versions of each game, module, updates & patches not including different release versions that would need to be made and tested for different Mac & PC platforms.  No wonder they try and keep it simple as possible and keep it inhouse....

 

They did use gamersgate for a short period, maybe that soured them.  My impression is that Battlefront is very careful about losing control of their stuff.  They have kept the company very small, despite being around for 15 years, they aren't exactly friendly to modding, and are resistant to publishiers that might decrease the price of their of products.  They are also very proudly niche, and there is an air of resentment about them.

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I disagree. I've seen several other developers and publishers make the same claims BF does about Steam. I've seen their forums flooded with countless topics where their customers ask and pressure about Steam, and I've seen countless people like you dismiss those efforts. And in almost every single case I've seen those companies give in to the pressure, join the future and profit immensely from it. I think the only case I've seen where it didn't happen, the company no longer exists.

 

Again, the choice is Battlefront's. But the people who keep asking for Steam are those who have BF's best interests in mind. And in the end, in my experience Battlefront will have to either bend... or break. Right now, very few gamers have even heard of these games. Obscurity and anonimity are never good for someone trying to sell a product, even though finding a niche might keep them alive for a while.

 

 

 

Yes, it says that people realize what a massive amount of money can be made from Steam (by all parties involved) and want their share of the spoils. And the lack of success of these alternative services says even more.

 

 

Wow, you seem to have a lot of experience. Been around a while, have you?

 

Before you answer, realize that many of us were buying our first games on 5 1/4" floppies, and that BFC has been successful since, what, 2000?

Edited by Doug Williams

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Before you answer, realize that many of us were buying our first games on 5 1/4" floppies, and that BFC has been successful since, what, 2000?

 

More like 1997 or earlier.

 

Michael

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Wow, you seem to have a lot of experience. Been around a while, have you?

 

Before you answer, realize that many of us were buying our first games on 5 1/4" floppies, and that BFC has been successful since, what, 2000?

 

Am I supposed to be impressed now? I started on 8" ones, so get off my lawn you young whippersnapper.

 

The marketplace in 2000 was entirely different than the marketplace in 2015. Back then, PC games were still sold in actual physical stores. Nowadays only the very big ones or the ancient relics like Battlefront even bother with printing physical discs. What worked well in 2000 is a recipe for disaster in 2015. Battlefront has survived so far, but they're hardly thriving these days. After all, a company that has to price a small piece of vehicle DLC at $20 in order to even make a profit (and then still drops hints that they likely won't do it again because it wasn't really worth it) isn't exactly screaming "massive success story" to anyone with a bit of business sense.

 

Over 99.99% of gamers have never even heard of these titles. Thousands of potential customers who'll merrily spend their money elsewhere. There is only one single mainstream gaming source even mentioning the name Battlefront, and that's because they've got an author on staff (Tim Stone) who is a huge fan of the wargaming genre and who, just like many posters here, is constantly urging these antiquated business models to adapt and thrive in the modern gaming market. There is a joke game where you quite literally play a goat that is raking in profits Battlefront can only dream about. Train and farming simulators sell more in a single week on sale than Black Sea will in its entire lifetime. And all thanks to the massive exposure Steam brings. I'd also be quite interested in knowing how much Strategic Command 3 will outsell its predecessors now that it's most likely going to Steam.

 

Again, I've had this exact same discussion half a dozen times before. I've heard all these arguments before, I've been ignored for it, I've been insulted for it. And every single time I've been proven correct in the end. Paradox, Matrix Games/Slitherine, Illwinter, Longbow Games, ... They all strongly opposed Steam, they all predicted for years that going on Steam would ruin their company, they're all eagerly selling their games on Steam today. This time will be no different, so I really can't be bothered to be drawn into yet another endless debate about it. Either Battlefront will join the modern market in the next few years and we'll merrily enjoy many new Combat Mission games for decades to come, or they will stubbornly and scaredly vanish into obscurity and be replaced by someone else. Those Graviteam guys for example are going to be a really interesting competitor in a few years time, at the rate they are improving and innovating.

Edited by m0317624

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...

 

Over 99.99% of gamers have never even heard of these titles. ....

 

And 99.90% wouldn't play them anyway.

 

Do you seriously think that someone who plays a game about a goat or a farming sim is going to work through the learning curve of Combat Mission games ?

 

I don't care either way, so long as they continue to sell their games. But if they do eventually end up on Steam, I hope they still produce a Steam-less option for people like me who just don't like unnecessary crap running in the background.

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I disagree. I've seen several other developers and publishers make the same claims BF does about Steam. I've seen their forums flooded with countless topics where their customers ask and pressure about Steam, and I've seen countless people like you dismiss those efforts. And in almost every single case I've seen those companies give in to the pressure, join the future and profit immensely from it. I think the only case I've seen where it didn't happen, the company no longer exists.

 

Again, the choice is Battlefront's. But the people who keep asking for Steam are those who have BF's best interests in mind. And in the end, in my experience Battlefront will have to either bend... or break. Right now, very few gamers have even heard of these games. Obscurity and anonimity are never good for someone trying to sell a product, even though finding a niche might keep them alive for a while.

 

 

 

Yes, it says that people realize what a massive amount of money can be made from Steam (by all parties involved) and want their share of the spoils. And the lack of success of these alternative services says even more.

disagree with what?  You think you can just harangue BF into going to steam?  Countless?  Really?  It is hyperbole like that which makes it so easy for BF to dismiss the suggestion.  Again I repeat, if you want to convince them it will take more than a forum post about an observation.  Using arguments about bending and breaking to a company that has survived over 15 years in this industry and is growing leaves most of us scratching our heads as to what you are thinking and suspecting you are pretty new to Battlefront.  No offense, but 13 posts doesn't exactly do much to alter that suspicion.

 

I don't care if they go to steam or not.  It doesn't make a difference to me.  If it works for BF great, if they feel it doesn't and like their current business model (which incidentally has seen them grow during a bad economic turn) I am good with that too.  What I won't do is try to tell them their business.  They know their business and the industry far better than I do.

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And 99.90% wouldn't play them anyway.

 

Do you seriously think that someone who plays a game about a goat or a farming sim is going to work through the learning curve of Combat Mission games ?

 

I don't care either way, so long as they continue to sell their games. But if they do eventually end up on Steam, I hope they still produce a Steam-less option for people like me who just don't like unnecessary crap running in the background.

 

You would be surprised at the number of people who play games like Hearts of Iron 3 on Steam and games like Panzer Corp from Matrix. Now Panzer Corp isn't as complex but there are people out there who if they are exposed to it will probably love Combat Mission, people just don't know it exists. A demo on Steam for Red Thunder for example, would be a great way to gauge if this is the kind of game people are looking for on Steam.

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