Hint request

[Patgarret]

I find the unit count in Red Thunder to be a tad too high.

How are other games, Normandy and Italy (and maybe Black Sea if it is already known) as for this particular side of the game? Fewer I guess, especially Fortress Italy. Am I right?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I'm not sure I understand your question, but battles in any of the games can be between a sniper and sniper all the way up to battalion+ versus battalion+.

[Ultradave]

They are all more or less the same. A wide variety. Have you tried sorting the scenarios by increasing size and picking some of the smaller ones. No matter which game/module the smallest are very manageable.

[Patgarret]

Well... small scenario are only three. I don't like Dawn Patrol and Assault seems to me pretty difficult.

Also the russian campaign start giving you around 100 units (?!) and the german one around 80...

Not a nice learning curve for sure...

[womble]

The only campaign that's meant to be more of a learning experience than a "mission" is the Tutorial campaign. Most BFC campaigns should come with great big flashing warning signs saying "This is not a graduated learning experience like you're used to".

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Do quick battles vs the AI. Set the force size to tiny or small and you'll get games of a very manageable size while you're learning.

[Patgarret]

You guys are right.

And this is why I love this game: if you don't do it the right way you get punished. What's the right way? More or less the REAL way, which is way more complicated than the RTS abstraction.

So if you want to succeed you have to learn much more than the rules of the game, you have to learn the rules of the conflict and the doctrines.

Sorry for stating the obvious...

[sgtnic]

...What's the right way? More or less the REAL way, which is way more complicated than the RTS abstraction.

Amen to that!

[Patgarret]

The point here is: playing red thunder, especially with the russians you have to juggle many many units (it's not rare to have 100-150 different units). This means having to focus on different sides and give a big quantity of orders.

This is all well and nice but I do feel that the normandy setting is more focused on few units and small scenario...which makes for a more fun and approachable experience; especially for a newbie.

So my point is that I made the wrong decision opting for Red Thunder as my first game of the series.

Are my assumptions correct?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I suggest you sort the battles by size as has already been suggested. By the way there are quite a few additional scenarios you can download fro this site some of which would suit beginners like yourself. You can also of course pause the action at any time, consider the overall situation and issue new orders based on that assessment. This game is a strategy game, not a click fest.

Nevertheless it is a good idea to play some of the smaller scenarios first to get some experience. In big games, particularly in restricted terrain traffic management can be a big problem when employing large armoured forces! If you make a mess of the traffic mangement you get something reminiscent of the cross roads scene in Patton!

[Patgarret]

Lucas I agree...still it seems to me that if you have 150 units in a scenario with three sides with soldiers dying aplenty (soviet doctrine) it becomes a clickfest anyway...and I don't like it at all

[snarre]

then you had to play smaler scenarios. there is nou any other cure to this =D

[womble]

then you had to play smaler scenarios. there is nou any other cure to this =D

Yes there is: play turn-based.

And: enjoy the ride. By which I mean, recognise that it doesn't matter how many units you have on the map, the number of element-clicks-per-hour doesn't change much whether you're playing with a Brigade or a Platoon. You just hit the BRB and the New Game buttons more often. A reinforced Battalion can often be thought of as 3-4 reinforced Company engagements, either simultaneously, or sequentially, depending on your approach; you're just developing the setup in a more plausible (interdependent, or dependent) context.

Large scenarios are, IMO, more forgiving to the newbie, because the loss of one tank or squad to a rookie blunder doesn't mean you've lost your only tank, or 2/3 of your maneuver elements to that error, and you get a chance to react to it, and learn from it. Chunk it up, in time or space and be methodical about how you deal with handing out orders, and it won't seem like a clickfest. An early skill to learn is knowing where you can play fast-and-loose with your orders (in complete hill-protected defilade for example) without serious consequence, and when you have to drop your waypoints and explicit target orders in just the right places for maximum effect.

[snarre]

womble sayed it wery well . personaly i enjoy mutch more biger battles and when you play turn by turn you have time to think what you gona do.

[Patgarret]

Yes you guys got a point, turns make it way more organized. I just quit using turns in the wrong scenario, it seems.

[Apocal]

Where is Field Marshal Bulcher when you need him? He made some really good company(-) campaigns back in the days of CMSF and CMBN.