Peanut Gallery for the AAR, No Bill or Pnzrldr

[George MC]

I think the difference between WWII and CMBS isn't fast vs slow, but how lethal are the mistakes one makes.

There is nothing wrong with moving fast or being cautious, it all depends on the context.

Spot on. Get the context wrong and you can lose assets big style - either moving too fast (run into an ambush) or moving too slow (allow the enemy to call in air or arty on your position). The trick will be identifying the time and the place for appropriate movement!

[sburke]

Spot on. Get the context wrong and you can lose assets big style - either moving too fast (run into an ambush) or moving too slow (allow the enemy to call in air or arty on your position). The trick will be identifying the time and the place for appropriate movement!

Hehe and with a UAV possibly hovering over your head it may just come down to luck.

[Sulman]

Spot on. Get the context wrong and you can lose assets big style - either moving too fast (run into an ambush) or moving too slow (allow the enemy to call in air or arty on your position). The trick will be identifying the time and the place for appropriate movement!

At some point you've got to decide to move your main elements around. Your scouting efforts won't turn up everything.

Those Shock Force maps with long sightlines were great exercises; the Marines 'Afternoon Delight scenario is a good example. You've got a tonne of firepower and lots of men to move, but you're probably going to lose some of it.

[John Kettler]

sburke,

"Hovering" is a most apt characterization of UAVs, for video now exists of QuadCopters being used for ISR and targeting in Ukraine. Think I saw it on this Forum but am not sure. Absent jamming or large butterfly nets with very long handles, the skies over Ukraine, and likely, the treetops, may well be full of COTS hobby drones being operated with mayhem intent by common soldiery.

Regards,

John Kettler

[The Teacher]

Its going to be very interesting sooner rather than later.

My thoughts are that Scott (UKr/USA) was a little to feisty at the start and should have gone for ambush positions.

The Ukrainian equipment present in the scenario doesn't equal the Russians on any level except maybe in light weapons.

The real test will come when the American reinforcments rumble onto the map.

If Scott can get deployed with enough space to take advantage of his equipment, Bil will be in trouble.

This battle requires both sides to defend and attack.

Bil to attack and then defend while Scott needs to defend and then attack.

The original map was about 20% larger, I would have liked to have seen the battle played out on it.

There is a lot more action to come.

Cheers

Stephen

[Vinnart]

The turn where Scott's tanks enter the map will be the "turns of turns" with enough action for both to write a short novel (well, literally in Scott's case  . If Bil can get established on those hills to meet the tanks he will get the first shots off. How much damage, and panic he will do to the Abrams remains to be seen, but shooting first is always a good thing. After the initial ambush he can pull back next turn to the reverse slope, which should be a tough position for Scott to dislodge unless he can get fire on it perhaps from "the pocket".

[dan/california]

If pnzrldr can survive the contested entry in a functional state, he still has all his support assets available.  Bill will not be able to go static anywhere really.  Remember that using essentially all of his artillery is the price he paid to otherwise ignore the town.  I agree with that decision, but it wasn't free.

[Vinnart]

After the intitial contact of entry by pnzrldr I don't think Bil will have much choice, but to go static with the guys on the hill as they are cut off with nowhere really to go. I don't know if pnzrldr gets UAV or not, but if Bil decides to take up reverse slope positions, which IMO he has no other real choice, all he will have to do is put it up to see there and then bring arty down on them. If it were ww2 he would have a much better chance fighting from that position.

 

One thing I don't understand is why Bil hasn't tried any real moves toward the pocket right after his arty barrage?

[Wicky]

Bil deployed his UAV reccie & aircraft late but if it is timed right, and turns up as expected, and the info gained is passed alomg as pnzrldr's reinforncements turn up Bil could have the upper hand esp as he played so aggressively from the off.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Wicky

[MikeyD]

If they're playing the same map I saw (it may have been altered for the AAR) then Bil might be getting some mild ECM interference which could interfere with drone use. I think even he's not sure about that. Plus Tunguska is lethal to circling drones, that may be why he's so desperate to dispatch pnzrldr's vehicles. BTW, AA missile launches are sooooo cool in the game! A trail of smoke reaching up however many thousand feet and a tiny burst at the end for the F15 you just nailed.

[The Teacher]

If Bil doesn't get into cover and some sneaky positions to get some ambush shots off Scott will have the advantage.

When setting up the scenario it was to show off the new toys and to have some fun getting them into action, the action speaks for its self.

It will also depend on the surviving units in the town and power station, eyes in either location can really hurt Bil.

 

In regards to drones, we can assume Scott will have them and the units to take advantage of them.

If it turns out that a static defence is on Bils planning list I think he will be in a world of hurt, a mobile game of cat and mouse shows more promise.

Bil has good tactics in his war chest while Scott got his own methods, it should be getting hotter in the pan in the near future.

 

The scenario was put together to take the players out of a comfort zone and get them thinking fast.

I think both AARs are exceptional, the two styles really work for me and I'm enjoying both of them.

 

Cheers

Stephen

[dan/california]

Bill seems to have left the assault on the power station a little late.  He is at risk of having units involved with this when a MUCH more dangerous force shows up.  Even the support assets could ruin his whole day.

[The Teacher]

You could very well be right about leaving the power station a little late dan.

I suspect Bil wanted to push his defences forward and with the clock ticking the time may have escaped him.

Either way its going to be close. 

Scott will have enough toys in the sky when the main force arrives to really put Bil under the pump.

 

Cheers

Stephen

[Michael Emrys]

Bill seems to have left the assault on the power station a little late.  He is at risk of having units involved with this when a MUCH more dangerous force shows up.  Even the support assets could ruin his whole day.

 

 

You could very well be right about leaving the power station a little late dan.

I suspect Bil wanted to push his defences forward and with the clock ticking the time may have escaped him.

Either way its going to be close. 

Scott will have enough toys in the sky when the main force arrives to really put Bil under the pump.

 

Not really wishing Bil any bad luck, but I kind of hope that the two of you are right. To me, it looks as if Scott can use all the help he can get. Bil's rush onto the hill and nearby terrain has left Scott seriously "inconvenienced" and there is a real possibility of the game ending before it has properly gotten underway.

 

Michael

[The Teacher]

Bil has certainly got Scott in a bind but one thing about Modern Warfare is that things can go to hell and back in minutes and I am of the opinion that things are not over by a long shot.

It is great watching Bil and Scott fighting it out and showing us all how deadly things can be in Black Sea.

 

* Note to self - Purchase a Tunguska to convince the nuff nuff across the street to move. One short burst should do the trick.

 

Cheers

Stephen

[antaress73]

There's nothing a well placed Tunguska burst can't solve !

[Michael Emrys]

* Note to self - Purchase a Tunguska to convince the nuff nuff across the street to move. One short burst should do the trick.

 

 

I should imagine that a burst should in fact accomplish the move.

 

 

Michael

Edited December 22, 2014 by Michael Emrys

[The Teacher]

Bils attack on the power station looks to be going well at this point and the Artillery barrage on the town appears to be cutting down Scotts forces by the minute.

I am wondering if the modern houses are providing better cover from the Barrage than I thought, time will tell.

[Vinnart]

Bils attack on the power station looks to be going well at this point and the Artillery barrage on the town appears to be cutting down Scotts forces by the minute.

I am wondering if the modern houses are providing better cover from the Barrage than I thought, time will tell.

 

Hmm, for some reason I thought Bil's arty barrage ended already. To survive arty in a building I usually put the inf on the 1st floor multistory and HIDE them till the barrage ends, which usually works good depending on how heavy munition are.

[The Teacher]

Yes Vinnart, I do the same, some loses happen still but it works pretty good.

Still watching the barrage makes me all warm and fuzzy, lots of boom booms.

Stephen

[antaress73]

Really the Teacher ? four platoons of M1s ? 16 tanks.... plus Bradleys and lot's of Javelins + support assets against against two companies of BMP-3s and 1 company of T-90AMs ? With Bill having to fight Ukrainians in his rear ? With Scott playing the US ? You have some apologies to give to Bill I think LOL... 

[sburke]

Really the Teacher ? four platoons of M1s ? 16 tanks.... plus Bradleys and lot's of Javelins + support assets against against two companies of BMP-3s and 1 company of T-90AMs ? With Bill having to fight Ukrainians in his rear ? With Scott playing the US ? You have some apologies to give to Bill I think LOL... 

either that or Bil insulted his mother and this is payback.  ouch.

 

Teacher, large modular buildings are pretty good at taking damage.  I had 2 Bradleys and an M1 chewing up a floor in a high rise and it took the full turn for them to destroy the wall on that floor.  That was on a big modular building.  I have taken entire smaller ones down with a single Brad over a couple turns.

[Rinaldi]

Really the Teacher ? four platoons of M1s ? 16 tanks.... plus Bradleys and lot's of Javelins + support assets against against two companies of BMP-3s and 1 company of T-90AMs ? With Bill having to fight Ukrainians in his rear ? With Scott playing the US ? You have some apologies to give to Bill I think LOL... 

 

FREE

 

 

DOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[The Teacher]

Try and remember this scenario was set up to show off the new stuff and some things were changed from my original scenario.

The time limit is longer than I would have liked but some extra time for the two commanders to organise themselves was done so that no one was rushed and to allow for planning.

 

The map was shaved down from the north edge, there was a low ground area and lake. Both are gone for this scenario.

About 400m was removed in the north.

The Western edge was shaved about 300m and the eastern edge lost about 250m.

The areas removed were fairly clear of woods but had gullies running north south with some west east branches.

The reasons for this was that there was some concern that with the forces involved it would be tough on older machines frame rates.

 

The river was more a dry river bed with muddy areas and water sections, it was filled with water for the scenario.

This should draw Scotts forces toward the middle and southern areas of the map before he drives toward the main town.

 

Also the objectives are preserve, so shelling them to death costs points.

American forces also don't swim, unlike the Russian vehicles which swim over the river.

American forces will need to cross somewhere to the south of Kricheck.

So the Power Station will play a bigger role as the scenario continues.

 

Don't count Bil out by a long shot, he knows tactics and will make Scott pay for every inch he takes in the counter attack.

Scott has taken a lot of hits and the modern battlefield as portrayed by Black Sea is a very nasty place.

On the other hand Scott has the reinforcments  he needs to push Bil back.

Digging the Russian forces out of their positions will be a lot harder than digging the Ukrainian forces out.

 

There is a lot more to see before the end of this battle.

 

Cheers

Stephen

[antaress73]

Try and remember this scenario was set up to show off the new stuff and some things were changed from my original scenario.

The time limit is longer than I would have liked but some extra time for the two commanders to organise themselves was done so that no one was rushed and to allow for planning.

 

The map was shaved down from the north edge, there was a low ground area and lake. Both are gone for this scenario.

About 400m was removed in the north.

The Western edge was shaved about 300m and the eastern edge lost about 250m.

The areas removed were fairly clear of woods but had gullies running north south with some west east branches.

The reasons for this was that there was some concern that with the forces involved it would be tough on older machines frame rates.

 

The river was more a dry river bed with muddy areas and water sections, it was filled with water for the scenario.

This should draw Scotts forces toward the middle and southern areas of the map before he drives toward the main town.

 

Also the objectives are preserve, so shelling them to death costs points.

American forces also don't swim, unlike the Russian vehicles which swim over the river.

American forces will need to cross somewhere to the south of Kricheck.

So the Power Station will play a bigger role as the scenario continues.

 

Don't count Bil out by a long shot, he knows tactics and will make Scott pay for every inch he takes in the counter attack.

Scott has taken a lot of hits and the modern battlefield as portrayed by Black Sea is a very nasty place.

On the other hand Scott has the reinforcments  he needs to push Bil back.

Digging the Russian forces out of their positions will be a lot harder than digging the Ukrainian forces out.

 

There is a lot more to see before the end of this battle.

 

Cheers

Stephen

 

I hope you are right Wouldn't want to have this turn into a turkey shoot for the US. For the sake of showing off the more balanced correlation of forces in CMBS. Also, for poor Bill sake's ! LOL