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Bil Hardenberger

CM Black Sea – BETA Battle Report - Russian Side

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Maybe slightly off topic, but here we see the reason why the US Air Force wants to retire the A-10. It is simply not survivable in the face of modern AA systems. It works great in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, dropping bombs on insurgents that can't shoot back, but the Air Force doesn't want to keep an aircraft that would be pretty much totally useless in a fight against a more modern opponent.

On the other hand, as long as most of our fighting is counter-insurgency, the A-10 will continue to be a viable and useful weapon.

Michael

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Well, anti air weapon technologies have advanced quite a bit since the A-10 was introduced many years ago. I know it can survive AAA but what about modern missiles during a conventional war? And then I'm thinking, it will probably need to survive a lot of modern incoming missiles.

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Well back in the day the A-10 could carry 2 ALQ-131 ECM pods IIRC. Also 2 to 4 AIM9L AtA missiles which were all aspect heat seeking missiles. It may be slow, but it has a tight turning radius, but the rate of turn is low due to low speed.

It still carries chaff and flares.

Perhaps if they spent the money to give it the most advanced ECM protection available and perhaps a laser anti missile defense system it could remain viable in a medium to semi-high threat environment.

Question is will the Air Force willingly spend money to do this and will congress fund it. IIRC there was a time when the Army wanted to get the A-10's from the Air Force.

The Army used to control air power, but after WW2 the Air Force became a separate branch of the armed services and part of the divorce had it that the Army would be stripped of airpower.

Legend has it as a consolidation prize the Army was granted permission to operate the newfangled contraption known as helicopters. If the Air Force knew the Army would someday arm helecopters and create attack helecopters, they would have lobbied congress to forbid the Army from operating helecopters too.

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The Fifth Minute - Part 1

This turn will, I think, not make Scott happy. He is most definitely trying to take the hill that 2nd MRC is climbing with at least parts of his Ukrainian Company Team supported by some US assets. There is so much action that I think I will have to break this turn up in to at least two posts.. we'll see how it develops.

2nd MRC I am lumping the GL Platoon (-) action in with the 2nd MRC as it is all related.

Refer to this Event Guide during the turn discussion:

Event%2BGuide2.JPG

EVENT 1 - Ukrainian BMP 2 fires an ATGM at the GL Platoon BMP 3M (at EVENT 2 location). This missiles falls well short of its intended target.

EVENT 2 - BMP 3M (Arena) fires an ATGM a few seconds later, which hits and penetrates the BMP 2... the BMP 2 is then finished off with a volley of 30mm.

Event%2B1%2Band%2B2.JPG

EVENT 3 and 4 - The second GL Platoon BMP 3M fired an ATGm at another BMP 2, destroying it.

Event%2B3%2Band%2B4.JPG

EVENT 5 - This was almost an unimportant event during this turn even though it did cost me another BMP 3M. Scott's Tunguska got a direct hit on this vehicle which exploded leaving a large crater... it also caused a few more casualties in the units further up the hill. I will be sending some units to deal with this pain in the ass vehicle starting next turn.

Event%2B5.JPG

EVENT 6 - My first confirmation of a US casualty in the battle.. and I now know what the team was with all the radios.. it was a sniper team, as shown by the sniper rifle being toted by what I hope is the last survivor.

Event%2B6.JPG

Part 2 coming right up...

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The Fifth Minute - Part 2

EVENT 7 - Climbing the hill towards 2nd MRC was at least 4 Ukrainian infantry teams supported by at least two BMP 2s. No US troops were identified as part of this grouping. One of the teams was an HQ team, possibly a Platoon HQ. These troops quickly turned tail and ran after the BMP 3M 100mm airburst and 30mm cannon fire ripped into them.. there were several casualties, and they must be in a bad way.

Event%2B7.JPG

EVENT 8 - One of the two BMP 2s supporting this infantry assault up hill came under attack from BMP 3M fire suffering several penetrations, though no confirmation of a kill quite yet.

Event%2B8.JPG

EVENT 9 - On the flank of this Ukrainian assault was at least one US HMMWV which traded ineffectual fire with a BTR-80 with 2nd MRC.. though the HMMWV backed off in the end.

Event%2B9.JPG

EVENT 10 and 11 - BMP 2 fires an ATGM at the BMP 3M at Event 11 location. This missile is intercepted and destroyed by Arena. I will be creating a video of this event from this turn at least in the next day or two so you can see Arena in action.

Event%2B10%2Band%2B11.JPG

Overall an important turn for me. I now suspect that Scott has massed the entire Ukrainian Company team against 2nd MRC.. though I have not seen any Ukrainian tanks and I was told to expect them in my briefing. I am in a good position to really hurt this formation now and will be advancing more quickly in pursuit. I do not know what he has left but I have identified elements of three different MR Platoons, plus its US support.. which so far is comprised of up to three vehicles, I suspect two HMMWvs and it looks like perhaps an IFV (I got a UI contact that looks like it might be an IFV or maybe another SPAA.. hard to tell, I really hate these floating icons).

I will add some analysis later.. maybe tomorrow night, or Monday morning.

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Some examples of A-10 ability to take terrible punishment and still come home.

Sure, some A-10:s will make it back rather than get shot down, but other than bringing the pilot back, the result will be the same. They will be out of the fight for quite some time, while being repaired/rebuilt.

It may not be glamorous or effective, but the troops swear by it.

Yes, like I said it works well enough in a non threat environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, but once the A-10:s start not showing up because they are shot down (or shot up and withdrawn for repairs), they'll start swearing at it instead.

(I apologize for going off topic, I will not make any more replies on this subject.)

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I've noticed LOTS of BMP3 use of 100mm ATGM.

Anyone have any info on reasoning of AI use? Long rang targets only? Dice roll?

Can't just be a dice-roll... can it?

BUT, is 100mm ATGM move effective than APDS at "normal" ranges? No APDS loadout?

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Bil,

Tremendous stuff... very entertaining and informative :).

This is going to be a lot of fun. Fascinating to see how contemporary, conventional war may turnout. I have only really thought about WWII and Cold War so very much learning curve for me.

During the first few weeks I have CMBS am sad to predict that my digital heroes will inevitably suffer terrible and unnecessary casualties while I struggle to learn how to use the new toys in the new environment.

As with a few others here I “hate...” seeing my guys go down, I play very slowly and carefully, lots of micro – management, so it will be painful!!

Can’t wait.. :).

Goodness... are we all lucky to have CM.. !!

All the best,

Kip.

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leakyD,

I've noticed LOTS of BMP3 use of 100mm ATGM.

Anyone have any info on reasoning of AI use? Long rang targets only? Dice roll?

Can't just be a dice-roll... can it?

BUT, is 100mm ATGM move effective than APDS at "normal" ranges? No APDS loadout?

Great spot... yes they are using ATGMs and not just 30mm even for BMPs.

All the best,

Kip.

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Eleven action events in one turn? A -real- AAR would have gif's of all eleven! ;)

Sounds like a very pivotal turn. I'm thinking BMP-3's are better than BMP-2's...by a decent margin. ATGM's, airbursts, autocannon, active protections systems, and more! They're like miniature Imperial Cruisers roaming about the battlefield...and Scott has Ewoks. ;)

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Eleven action events in one turn? A -real- AAR would have gif's of all eleven! ;)

Sounds like a very pivotal turn. I'm thinking BMP-3's are better than BMP-2's...by a decent margin. ATGM's, airbursts, autocannon, active protections systems, and more! They're like miniature Imperial Cruisers roaming about the battlefield...and Scott has Ewoks. ;)

You are a very demanding soul...

Cracking AAR and thanks for breaking the action down into chunk size pictures and notes. This makes it very easy to understand and good to see you dishing out some return fire.

ohh and the Gifs are excellent, this is yoiur best AAR yet...

Thanks

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I'm going to try to get some videos together of the action last turn for you guys sometime today.

I finally sent the next turn to Scott, it took a bit longer as I am picking up the pace quite a bit and I do not want to do it recklessly.

Most of the vehicles of 1st MRC are starting to assemble for an assault down the flank of Scott's line. The infantry and around one platoon of BMP3Ms will continue to scout the area to their front to confirm whether it is indeed clear of enemy forces.

2nd MRC is moving over the crest to start their pursuit of Scott's fleeing Ukrainians and to get out of the line of fire of that damned Tunguska.

I am sending my four reserve T90AMs after the Tunguska.. it'll take a few turns before those are close enough to start hunting it.. and I have to be careful not to run into a hidden ATGM team. 3rd MRC (dismounted) is starting to scout the area around the Power Plant objective as well to support this mission and to prepare for their assault.

Pursuit_Plan.JPG

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Bang-up videos Bil! Thanks for making these for us.

Nothing will satisfy Ken's blood lust except the release of Black Sea and seeing his own bursting toys fly apart as he orders them to Attack! ;)

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Here are the links to videos for the major events that happened in turn 5. Hopefully this will satisfy Ken's bloodlust. ;)

"Satisfy" bloodlust? It can be slaked, it can be assuaged, but it can never be satisfied! Moar! Victory can only be truly won with a bayonet.

:)

Great set of links. Thanks.

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Thanks for the videos and the wonderful AAR. The BMP-3's certainly look like fun. Can they fire the 30mm and the 100mm simultaneously?

Their is only one gunner so I would imagine that that isn't possible.

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I presume the gunner has separate triggers for the 100mm, 30mm and 7.62mm weapons, in which case he could fire all three simultaneously - but what would be the purpose? The weapons have different ballistics and the platform would shake too much for accurate firing, for starters.

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