modules and weapons packs

[Stagler]

I hope modules will add seasonal settings. Autumn and Winter in FI shows that it can be done. It also adds greater flexibility to the mission editor when setting his scenarios in different countries and times of year than when the release game was based.

Maybe a reignited conflict in the following winter involving blue and red militia forces?

[John Kettler]

This is a very good article on the German military's woes, as seen from a NATO macro view.

http://20committee.com/2014/06/22/why-germany-refuses-to-play-a-bigger-role-in-nato/

The guy who wrote it is a heavy hitter, including a History doctorate, professor at the Naval War College and a stint with No Such Agency. Also a Naval Reserve officer.

http://20committee.com/about/

The first link is how things are, the second where they're going and the form they'll take. This Socialist analysis of a trenchant Der Spiegel article solidly points to a resurgent Bundeswehr geared for mechanized warfare in Europe. Given this, and other things I've seen, I believe it would be ill advised to rule out the Germans in a Ukraine invasion scenario. As bad as the Bundeswehr's current shape is, the word I got from military-intelligence insiders when the Ukraine Crisis got going was that Putin fears Germany. The memory of what happened to Russia the last time the Germans were in Ukraine is so deep, it's practically genetic. This grave concern about German ground combat capabilities reflects the Russian received wisdom about fighting NATO divisions. There were two and only two categories that commanded serious General Staff attention: Bundeswehr and the BAOR. Everyone else was deed handleable by the Red Army. Thus, a Germany rearming for war in Europe, one I might add which has already publicly said it will intervene if Russia moves against the Balkans, is the very stuff of Kremlin nightmares.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/11/germ-a11.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[poesel]

This is a very good article on the German military's woes, as seen from a NATO macro view.

http://20committee.com/2014/06/22/why-germany-refuses-to-play-a-bigger-role-in-nato/

I might add that this article from my POV as German is absolutely correct and to the point in every aspect. If you want to understand the current stand of German politics regarding the military you can't do better than read this (long) article.

Thanks for the link, John. It is always enlightened to get a good outside view on your own country.

[Jargotn]

This is a very good article on the German military's woes, as seen from a NATO macro view.

Thanks for the intereting read. I knew that the german forces had some problems, but I never expected issues to be so present.

If Battlefront was to release a module which includes the german army, would those issues be depicted?

[Stratos]

Turkey. So I can finally use a M-60 tank in combat.

[DreDay]

I would love to see an SOF module as well; but it would need to come with some special engine features as well (i.e. silenced and suppressed weapons, extra cammo options for the infantry, etc...). VDV are obviously a must; as for Russian Naval Infantry - their kit is no different than an average BTR battalion, so that module might be a bit disappointing to most...

What I would really like to see are irregular forces on both sides (i.e. DNR/LNR rebels vs Ukrainian volunteer battalions). This would give the game a lot more depth and accuracy as opposed to adding the latest war-machines that can all kill you as soon as they spot you and leave very little room for actual tactics and maneuver.

[kipanderson]

Mikey, hi,

Let’s remember Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's and their budget is reliant on oil staying above $100 a barrel. They may be fielding BMP-4 but at the same time plain-Jane old MT-LB remains a mainstay.

I should have explained.. I really do mean “global...” defence spending going up.

The really big event we are living through is best illustrated by the prediction for 2014 that the GDP at purchasing power parity of the alternative, non western G7 will be bigger than that of the more famous G7 we hear about all the time.

You can already see China and Japan squaring off and then it will be the US.

Globally the world is very rapidly moving back to normal completion between nation states as it becomes more balanced economically. Human nature does mean this will lead to an increase in defence spending from current low. In Europe too..everywhere.

Hence BS is so timely.

All interesting stuff,

All the best,

Kip.

[DreDay]

Lets remember Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's and their budget is reliant on oil staying above $100 a barrel. They may be fielding BMP-4 but at the same time plain-Jane old MT-LB remains a mainstay.

That is somewhat true. However, you also have to consider that Russian budget is currently aided by their falling currency (which makes domestic production of military hardware much cheaper than before). They have also embarked on an ambitious re-armament program that allocates high amounts of their GDP to defense spending.

Finally, in game terms - if they were to go to war (per game's story line); you better believe that they would be sending their latest hardware into that theater of operation. Look at all the modern weapon platforms that they are deploying to Crimea right now - why do you think they do that? Certainly not because they don't anticipate it being a potential hot spot.

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

I really hope they'll add the BMPT-72 "Terminator" in a future module. Would love to see this beast tear through some infantry and IFVs.

[LukeFF]

I really hope they'll add the BMPT-72 "Terminator" in a future module. Would love to see this beast tear through some infantry and IFVs.

It doesn't look like any are in Russian service, though:

As of early 2014, the BMPT has not entered service and its adoption has been frozen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT

[Combatintman]

I would love to see an SOF module as well; but it would need to come with some special engine features as well (i.e. silenced and suppressed weapons, extra cammo options for the infantry, etc...). VDV are obviously a must; as for Russian Naval Infantry - their kit is no different than an average BTR battalion, so that module might be a bit disappointing to most...

What I would really like to see are irregular forces on both sides (i.e. DNR/LNR rebels vs Ukrainian volunteer battalions). This would give the game a lot more depth and accuracy as opposed to adding the latest war-machines that can all kill you as soon as they spot you and leave very little room for actual tactics and maneuver.

You're playing the wrong game ... this is FPS territory.

[Stagler]

You're playing the wrong game ... this is FPS territory.

Either way, when the VDV module comes along - with their respective dismounted reconnaisance units - I would like to see one AKMSB issued per section for the lead scout as they do in reality.

[DreDay]

You're playing the wrong game ... this is FPS territory.

Say what? CM is designed to model infantry combat just as much as other components of combined arms. Silenced/suppressed small arms play a major role in today's battlefield and effect the tactics that are used by any modern military force. If a module was to focus specifically on the special forces, that would even be more of a factor; but it should fit organically with the existing engine. What does that have to do with FPSs?

[Kieme(ITA)]

Not sure the actual mechanics would fit such a specific level of simulation of a specialized infantry combat.

For example: spotting and sound suppression should be completely remodeled.

But you can perform some kind of scenario with such idea in mind. I remember CMSF 1st mission of Marines campaign.

[DreDay]

Not sure the actual mechanics would fit such a specific level of simulation of a specialized infantry combat.

For example: spotting and sound suppression should be completely remodeled.

But you can perform some kind of scenario with such idea in mind. I remember CMSF 1st mission of Marines campaign.

Right that's exactly what I mean. There would need to be an engine enhancement to handle visual and sound identification based on weapon sound and flash. However, this would also create many interesting tactical scenarios and options that we don't have right now (i.e. have your scout team take out enemy patrol or HW crew without alerting the rest of their force to your positioning and actions).

[Kieme(ITA)]

I see your point, I am just not sure that CM games developers imagine that route to take with further expansion of the game development.

If we take a look at what came in the past 7 years, since CMSF came out, we see a precise path: new mechanics were added, graphic improvements, AI editor options, etc. although I don't see any decisive step towards a more detailed infantry combat or representation. For example: I belive that in such conditions a single soldier should be represented as a unit, that would require a lot of work, not to mention the spotting issue, should be completely reworked. Sound spotting is in game now, but it's basic.

I belive that the amount of work needed to modify the actual game engine to cope with your idea would be so high (especially when compared to just following the development trend) that creating a new engine/game from scratch would make more sense.

[Stagler]

I think if every soldier was a unit, it would detract from the gameplay and feel of combat mission. That's more the field of Jagged Alliance which is good but should stay a separate thing.

[MikeyD]

I recall Steve once idly speculated/daydreamed about bringing the Chinese into the battle! But imagine how absurdly convoluted the backstory would have to be to somehow get Chinese armor into Ukraine! Plus which side would they fight on? Against the Russians or against the Americans?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Plus which side would they fight on? Against the Russians or against the Americans?

We owe them too much money, so it damn sure wouldn't be against the US.

[Blyskawica]

Currently in Europe, whether one is chauvinistic or not, only France and Germany have the abilities to make projections , the English Army surely one of most professional in the world currently undergoes a form of saturation of to its commitments passed to Iraq and Afghanistan

France takes over in Africa and even in Iraq currently successfully within the first framework …. But in 2017, it could be at the same stage as the British army for identical reasons ..... Budgetary

Poland country of my ancestors cannot currently competed with Russia, even if it can provide quotas. It is not yet on the level ..... 2017?

the most credible modules and logic would be with dimensions NATO: Franco-German brigade , Canada, Holland, Poland , the United Kingdom , to see Italy

Ukraine: Parachutist and marine light infantry and national guard

Russian side. Marine light infantry, VDV & Special forces, Chechen and rebels

[Stagler]

Now that amphibious mechanics are in the game - and not that its anything in particular to do with CMBS - but an interesting avenue would be a Russia-China conflict in the far east. Im sure the bleak settings of Vladivostok and Ussuriysk in winter would certainly make for interesting engagements.

NATO: Franco-German brigade , Canada, Holland, Poland , the United Kingdom , to see Italy

Ukraine: Parachutist and marine light infantry and national guard

Russian side. Marine light infantry, VDV & Special forces, Chechen and rebels

I would say that the Ukrainian and Russian units mentioned there are highly likely - but for Chechens and Rebels.

I think we will see both blue and red unconventional units (Ukrainian and Russian Militia troops), this is a trend that was foreseen in modern hybrid combat by intelligence estimates and has been catching on in Ukraine and in Iraq currently and will not disappear - semi-mechanised unconventional forces with high lethality weapons.

[-Eddie-]

There's no such thing as the 'English Army'. Or Royal Army!

[Combatintman]

Say what? 1.CM is designed to model infantry combat just as much as other components of combined arms. 2. Silenced/suppressed small arms play a major role in today's battlefield and effect the tactics that are used by any modern military force. 3. that would even be more of a factor; but it should fit organically with the existing engine. What does that have to do with FPSs?

1. Yes.

2. Are you sure about the 'major role' part of that statement, please quote your source.

3. Terrain tiles in CM titles are about 8m x 8m from memory - One of the reasons Special Forces are special is because they work the margins. 8m is not a margin and that is what it has to do with the difference between CM and FPS games.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Although, even an X-com game could represente a 1:1 soldier and his movements with a good approximation, and it's not really an FPS.

Ayway, I agree that simulaton special units combat in detail using CM engine as it is now would be like pretending to use a wooden log as toothpick.

[DreDay]

1. Yes.

I am glad that we can agree on this

2. Are you sure about the 'major role' part of that statement, please quote your source.

I guess that depends of your definition of major. Both Russian and US SF and Recon units use a wide variety of suppressed and silenced ARs and sniper rifles. These weapons have a major influence on their tactics (i.e. support team suppresses an enemy strongpoint while the silenced snipers pick out enemy personnel from a different position without being spotted). I am not sure what kind of reference source you are looking for here. Just look at standard kit of Russian and US SF personnel and you'll see what I mean....

3. Terrain tiles in CM titles are about 8m x 8m from memory - One of the reasons Special Forces are special is because they work the margins. 8m is not a margin and that is what it has to do with the difference between CM and FPS games.

When I am talking about the special forces in context of CM, I am not expecting some super-ninja SWAT-like teams that kill all their enemies with king-fu death-grips in CQB. I am referring to scout/sniper teams with superior training, better camouflage capabilities, better spotting, and some suppressed/silenced weapons that are effective to 200-400m. So I don't feel that the game scale is at issue here. Now if the developers tell us that this can not be done with the current engine, so be it; and I will certainly not loose any sleep over it. But if it can be done, it will add a lot of new interesting tactical options to the current engine.