Jump to content
AttorneyAtWar

ChrisND Stream Footage

Recommended Posts

There is a whole debate among personal weapon enthusiasts wheather modern optics of "small" or "medium" size give any kind of help over a simple iron sight shooter.

What can we say is that US army and marines for sure think they give an advantage, hence their wide spread issue to combat units, although we might argue if the costs/benefit is more or less efficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a whole debate among personal weapon enthusiasts wheather modern optics of "small" or "medium" size give any kind of help over a simple iron sight shooter.

What can we say is that US army and marines for sure think they give an advantage, hence their wide spread issue to combat units, although we might argue if the costs/benefit is more or less efficient.

Well, it certainly doesn't hurt. And past 200 or so meters it makes it much easier to hit something for someone who isn't a marksman. Plus, if you want to effectively engage at longer distances, you really need to have some optics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the problem, does a trained marksman (military) get a sufficient benefit from having a modern optic at short/medium ranges (not talking about sniper rifles) to justify the investment of equipping him with it?

And how do compare two trained marksmen (military) when it comes to shooting with and without such aid? Do their performances differ much or little?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the problem, does a trained marksman (military) get a sufficient benefit from having a modern optic at short/medium ranges (not talking about sniper rifles) to justify the investment of equipping him with it?

And how do compare two trained marksmen (military) when it comes to shooting with and without such aid? Do their performances differ much or little?

I just edited my previous post: Another big thing is being able to see and identify a target at longer ranges (past 200/300 meters). Optics help with that hell of a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the weapons in my units have had CCOs on them, non magnifying red dot sights. Tremendously useful at short ranges, easier to use at ranges up to 300m (in my experience on the range) but not a game changer at that distance. Only key leaders had ACOGs, which is an actual magnified sight. I think the benefit for US troops with standard M4s would actually be at short ranges where the CCO excels and not at long ranges, given the lack of ACOGs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the weapons in my units have had CCOs on them, non magnifying red dot sights. Tremendously useful at short ranges, easier to use at ranges up to 300m (in my experience on the range) but not a game changer at that distance. Only key leaders had ACOGs, which is an actual magnified sight. I think the benefit for US troops with standard M4s would actually be at short ranges where the CCO excels and not at long ranges, given the lack of ACOGs.

That varies unit to unit. The units that I have deployed with (4-64 AR and 3-15 IN, 4BDE, 3ID) used the "arms room" concept. We had enough M150 and M68 for each squad leader to tailor his squad how he saw fit. If I wanted to I could have have run nothing but M150s or M68s or a mix of the two. Additionally we had EOTech, Leupold MK4 CQ/T and Trijicon RX30s. I can't think of anytime since 2004 that I have not had ample variety of optics, lights and lasers available. I would hope BFC is basing the optic availability off of the current MToE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am struggling to think of an alternate widely-issued camouflage pattern that could be included as an alternative uniform choice.

Mountain flora is in use by some mountain motor-rifle troops I suppose, but EMR is almost uniform now - never mind in a projected future conflict.

Also, I wonder how open Battlefront is to me retexturing then donating some textures for inclusion. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, it is more important to have several options of uniforms, so you can use these different uniforms in on one battle/scenario...how these options are look like is secondary, because this can be altered from modders...

Also I would be interested what exactly is the difference from "RATNIK" to the actual russian uniform in game...when I google "RATNIK" i see only similar pictures to the in-game-russians...

Greetings, alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I how these options are look like is secondary, because this can be altered from modders...

Thats the point of alternative uniforms choices in CM isnt it though? They are just aesthetic options.

Ratnik is the complex, so the integrated GPS system, colimator optics, night vision equipment, radio and the other equipment intended to be carried by the "future" infantry soldier - not just the uniform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh...this explains it...thank you!

And I think we have a misunderstandig (probably out of my english!).

I Like to have many options to chose from! I don't say it is completly unimportant how the look like. Of course it should be lookig good (aesthetics ;-)).

But I think it's important to have the in-game option for different uniforms (like the US-infantry and the ukraines) so you can have these different option within a scenario/battle...so it would be coll if the russians would get a second uniform option.

Did you see the last youtube video? It seems you know something about russian uniforms, so you could eventually tell me what kind of uniform Chris would like to see in the game...

Greetings, alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I know it will most likely modded, do Ukrainian soldiers and marines really have a uniform camo? I know they did before hostilities, but now from what I've seen on the front the VDV units and whatnot all have a conglomeration of different camo styles like Flecktarn, ACU, Multi-Cam, DCU, CADPAT, etc. The only time I've seen them with a uniform camo style is when they have photo ops like when President Poroshenko is around. That is also the only time I see them with any sort of new gear. Not at the front....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I know it will most likely modded, do Ukrainian soldiers and marines really have a uniform camo? I know they did before hostilities, but now from what I've seen on the front the VDV units and whatnot all have a conglomeration of different camo styles like Flecktarn, ACU, Multi-Cam, DCU, CADPAT, etc. The only time I've seen them with a uniform camo style is when they have photo ops like when President Poroshenko is around. That is also the only time I see them with any sort of new gear. Not at the front....

Remember this game takes place in 2017 and Is not based on the conflict in Ukraine happening in real life. It is conceivable that by than Ukrainian forces have enough uniforms to go around and equip there forces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ahhh...this explains it...thank you!

And I think we have a misunderstandig (probably out of my english!).

I Like to have many options to chose from! I don't say it is completly unimportant how the look like. Of course it should be lookig good (aesthetics ;-)).

But I think it's important to have the in-game option for different uniforms (like the US-infantry and the ukraines) so you can have these different option within a scenario/battle...so it would be coll if the russians would get a second uniform option.

Did you see the last youtube video? It seems you know something about russian uniforms, so you could eventually tell me what kind of uniform Chris would like to see in the game...

Greetings, alex

Yes, Chris refers to this.

http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2014_09/220636/140301-ukraine-crimea-841_b3ee07c5617aed4c1a3932ab31544313.jpg

His armour and helmet covers have the older Flora pattern camouflage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah variation is welcome.

Recon troops should have more variation though, Izlom or Skol maskalats for example are often worn by reconnaisance troops. Same with Gorka variants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lots of stuff shown today. I made the whole stream a highlight on my twitch page, and I just sent the export to Youtube, so it should be up shortly.

Chris, along with your Black Sea showcase, did you do part two of Char and Char Alike? I didn't see an upload for that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What are Izlom and Skol maskalats and how look Gorka variants?

Greetings, alex

Gorka - being worn by Army and VDV in crimea.

http://america.aljazeera.com/content/dam/ajam/images/articles_2014/03/crimea_russians_031914.jpg

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/140311120605-crimea-russian-soldiers-620xa.jpg

http://www.rng2.com/Rng2_files/public/1397918774_46_FT0_gorka_crimea_1.jpg

http://www.guerrasposmodernas.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/xycdn8O.jpg

Izlom/Skol worn by VDV recon.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/_np/9527/6149527.jpg

Maskalat is the type of cut of the uniform, as in it has a hood and is loose fitting. Most reconnaissance units in RF army issue uniform with hood, even if it is just in EMR camouflage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep...a good-made Gorka-texture would be looking cool...

Maskalets are unlikely because this needs changes on the model...and I have to say: if there would be made changes on the models I would prefer to get the old equipments (this old vest and helmets) for presentation of category II or III troops...

Nevertheless thanks for the pictures...

Greetings, alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the problem, does a trained marksman (military) get a sufficient benefit from having a modern optic at short/medium ranges (not talking about sniper rifles) to justify the investment of equipping him with it?

And how do compare two trained marksmen (military) when it comes to shooting with and without such aid? Do their performances differ much or little?

It probably depends on the branch. I don't know if it's still the rule, but when I was in the USMC, if you didn't qualify with the service rifle, you stood little chance of getting a promotion, especially to NCO. We qualified at 200, 300, and 500 yds with open iron sights on the M-14. I don't believe Marines qual at 500 yds with the M-16. Besides, I'm sure the optics help when the target is shooting back.

I read that they ran an investigation in Falluja (not sure of spelling) because so many insurgents died from head shots, they thought the Marines were executing them. Turned out that the Marines usually had only the head to target. Nough said for the M-16 optics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...