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White2Golf

Counter Battery Fire?

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(Swoop in from lurkerland)

Will CMBS have any representation of CB fire in it? I am sure most of us realize modern CB capabilities are rather impressive. Would be nice to see in game.

Looking forward to this one, thanks BFC!

(Egress back to lurkerland)

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I would really think this is beyond the scope of the game, and part of modern day fire support on the artillery side (ie artillery battalions, not maneuver battalions) is mitigating those risks. The steps taken to do that are well beyond the control of the player. Just one example: the fact that you have artillery assigned for your "mission" is because the enemy's counter fire radar was identified before the missions time frame and neutralized, thus allowing the friendly artillery to now shoot your missions. Or, you may have an artillery "battery" to call upon, but the mission is being fired by several, well seperated artillery platoons that attempt to confuse and overwhelm the enemy CF radar.

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I don't think this is out of the scope of modern CM at all.

In a 45 minute scenario, there is plenty of time for one side's air or dedicated cb arty to locate and rain on the other side's firing arty.

It may be out of the scope of time to code it versus far more important things, though. ;)

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I'm not sure if there will be on map mortars in CMBS like the ww2 titles, but you can try it by moving the camera along the ground to where you think the mortar fire is coming from. You will here the sounds of the guns going off in a general area then can try some area fire there. From my experience though it is a waste of shells. Better to save them for when you can actually spot what you want to mortar.

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I don't know what would be a proper way to model counterbattery fire, but it would be reasonable if offboard batteries had to relocate after a mission as a precaution. Game effect would be that they would be unavailable with text "relocating".

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I don't know what would be a proper way to model counterbattery fire, but it would be reasonable if offboard batteries had to relocate after a mission as a precaution. Game effect would be that they would be unavailable with text "relocating".

This is a great idea. Couple this with an option for off map batteries to go onto standby to conduct counter battery. Like in fire mission type, they are then unavailable to be used to fire at targets on map with the text "counter-battery tasking". That way if you want to commit a battery to do that, it will mitigate enemy artillery usage by forcing them to move after they have been used, and keep them out of the game for a while.

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As a Paladin chief I can assure you the time spent conducting survivability moves to include reoccupation is negligible at best. The only real time dependant factor is the terrain to be traveled on. I couldn't imagine the Ukrainian terrain would lend much more than 5 minutes at most with your standard 750 meter goose egg. I would rather the devs spent time on other features.

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Also if your commander is any good he will maintain even degraded firing capability by moving half of his element at a time. The key is always to maintain firing capability.

I guess the fact that it's only half the battery being able to fire at a time is less of an issue when the fire missions are often single laser-guided precision missions. It really isn't your grandpappy's artillery environment is it?

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I suppose this can be factored in at the scenario design stage. You're either lacking artillery or it arrives as 'reinforcements' into the battle or its less than expected. The orders text can mention that your artillery batteries are being harassed and to expect less than optimal artillery support. 3/4 is left up to the imagination.

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It seems counter battery fire can be done with what we've already seen in screenshots and features revealed so far. We have seen screenshots of on-map vehicle mounted mortars and we know that there will be UAV surveillance capabilities. That sounds like all I need for counter battery fire. :)

Having said that, I'm not sure I want to use on-map artillery assets anymore! Give me the invincible off-map ones, please. ;)

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I guess the fact that it's only half the battery being able to fire at a time is less of an issue when the fire missions are often single laser-guided precision missions. It really isn't your grandpappy's artillery environment is it?

You would be surprised, precision munitions sound cool and all, but the battalion TOT is still the most effective way to use artillery. Precision artillery rounds was really a response to the need for artillery to feel useful in a COIN environment. The amount of explosive effect delivered by one round is pretty insignificant for anything above single vehicles or a squad of infantry, and the time required precludes it from being an artillery sniper rifle. A near peer threat will see the need for the same massed, responsive fire missions that our grandpappy's shot. It's hard to drop an Excalibur round into every single foxhole on the battlefield!

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Personally, I feel that counter-battery fire should not be included in any future expansions to CMBS. The same goes for MLRS, especially ones that can deliver thermobaric warheads. There are much more important and newer weapon systems for the United States and Russia that should be considered that would be found in the CMBS environment.

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Posted (edited)

It's easy enough for a scenario designer to give an AI artillery piece limited ammo (and a painted Target Zone), then claim in the briefing that the player's own guns are preparing a counter-battery engagement, against the enemy guns/mortars/whatever.....When the enemy shelling stops the player won't be any the wiser as to why.  A carefully timed and suitably named reinforcement ('counter-battery mission complete' or whatever) can then be used to both add immersion and bring the big guns under player control. 

17 minutes ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

The same goes for MLRS, especially ones that can deliver thermobaric warheads.

You have got to be kidding.....Can I smell 'Buratino Terror' coming from a little Blue Boi?  :P

Against US armoured formations there's a reasonable case for Iskander M with cluster munitions IMHO!  :lol:

17 minutes ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

There are much more important and newer weapon systems for the United States and Russia that should be considered that would be found in the CMBS environment. 

Newer weapon systems are unlikely to be added to CM:BS, as the game has a fixed date.....If anything a number of units should be removed to better reflect reality at that date.  :rolleyes:

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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