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Trooper117

No British forces?

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Did you see the BBC documentary about the British involvement in Afghanistan, called 'The last roar of the Lion?'. It predicts that was indeed the last roar. What struck me most was a local official who was convinced that the British came to his land only to avenge the defeat of 1842...

Perhaps it is time we start building up our forces again for the defence of Europe itself. Enough to worry about near and inside our borders.

Yeah, superb program. Well thats the issue isn't it with the fanatics in ME. They still think the crusades are going on.

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I think some have watched the BBC program and believed every word of it, despite it being a very negative documentary (not a mention of one single positive thing we've done in Helmand?)

As for Britain no longer participating in conflicts I'd have to disagree with you. Certainly we don't have the ability to deploy as great a number of forces any more but we are steadily re-deploying after 8 years of high tempo operations in Helmand.

If you look at the British Armed Forces today you'll see we currently have surveillance and strike aircraft over Iraq and Nigeria, with 1.3k army personnel and 350 armoured vehicles in Poland for Black Eagle, and troops being sent to Baghdad for further 'training'.

So implying the British military doesn't do anything any more is disingenuous to say the least.

Having said all that though it'd be interesting to see what the structure of British forces in a fictional 2017 Ukrainian setting would be. Force 2020 comprised of high numbers of Army Reserves with lower skills bulking up the low numbered but more effective regulars?

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I expect that German forces anywhere in the FSU might be just a tad "politically sensitive".

Michael

There are actually plans to deploy armed troops to eastern Ukraine by Germany and France. A recon team was there last month to check the situation for such a mission. The reason behind that is that France and Germany might support the OSCE with drone reconnaissance and because of the small operational range of those drones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMT_Luna_X-2000 on german side) the operators would have to be in the AO. To be protected a force of paratroopers is supposed to accompany them.

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While I am not about to read the USMC out, it's a little difficult for me to envision a role for them to play in Ukraine aside from just providing more cannon fodder. While they are usually good at whatever job they are handed, they are specifically trained to make ship-to-shore assault landings. Such training is costly and should not be squandered on performing tasks more traditionally allotted to the Army. Having said that though, if the balloon goes up almost anything could happen.

Michael

The same could be said about Iraq or Afghanistan. Using Marines also helps with unit rotation schedules. Unlike WW2 or Korea the US doesn't send units into combat and just keep them there for the duration.

The Marines have been to Russia once so it wouldn't be out of place for them to go back again.

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is a fictional conflict, so if they are Americans, they should also be Brits, Canadians, Germans, poles (this is probably the most natural candidate)

worries me is that I think there will be historical scenarios such. defense Donetsk Airport; (

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I think Brits have to be included in Black Sea at some point. They are our closest ally and have been right there with us in most of the conflicts. (Of course in the first few they were shooting at us instead of with us) :) Also can a serious 20th century / post 20th century war game / simulation be made that doesn’t have Germans? It just wouldn’t be the same without them. So, might as well just make a NATO module someday with a strong representation of Poles and eventually all 12 seasons, unconventional forces and non-combatants.

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I can certainly see a number of European countries being dragged into a conflict in Ukraine for historical and/or geopolitical reasons. Germany, Britain and Poland have already been mentioned. There are others such as Romania, Hungary and the Baltic States who might be attacked by Russia because they are NATO members. Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia could very well be directly invaded by Russia. If Ukraine fell then Poland, Hungary and Romania might be the next to face Russian invasions.

In future expansions Battlefront might well consider including the armed forces of all those states. OK, so the armies of the Baltic States are not militarily significant but they are NATO members. Scenarios based around, for example a Russian advance into Poland or the Baltic States could be a lot of fun

Oder Western European Nations such as France, Belgium and Holland, perhaps even Denmark, Norway.Spain and Italy could send forces as part of the NATO contingent.

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> If Ukraine fell then Poland, Hungary and Romania might be the next to face Russian invasions.

The political situation and relation with Russia is for Ukraine completely different to that of those other countries. Ukraine has been an integral part of the Russian Empire for a very long time, something that applies much less to the Baltic states, and not at all for Poland, Hungary and Romania. (although the borders of Poland have been a bit fluid over time).

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> If Ukraine fell then Poland, Hungary and Romania might be the next to face Russian invasions.

The political situation and relation with Russia is for Ukraine completely different to that of those other countries. Ukraine has been an integral part of the Russian Empire for a very long time, something that applies much less to the Baltic states, and not at all for Poland, Hungary and Romania. (although the borders of Poland have been a bit fluid over time).

Bear (no pun intended) in mind both countries have Russian minorities albeit small ones. Further, by this point Russia would already be at war with NATO, seeking to drive NATO forces back and disrupting staging areas for a NATO counteroffensive. In this scenario, even though Putin might have viewd this as a limited war the conflict has a potential to escalate rapidly into a larger regional war and perhaps a world war. In some circumstances NATO might drive on Moscow and St Petersburg (eg a large scale use of Russian chemical weapons - Putin gets desperate) Obviously at some stage the conflict might go nuclear but that is beyond the scope of the game:eek:

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Bear (no pun intended) in mind both countries have Russian minorities albeit small ones. Further, by this point Russia would already be at war with NATO, seeking to drive NATO forces back and disrupting staging areas for a NATO counteroffensive. In this scenario, even though Putin might have viewd this as a limited war the conflict has a potential to escalate rapidly into a larger regional war and perhaps a world war. In some circumstances NATO might drive on Moscow and St Petersburg (eg a large scale use of Russian chemical weapons - Putin gets desperate) Obviously at some stage the conflict might go nuclear but that is beyond the scope of the game:eek:

That would require some really gung-ho politicians.

I hope the leaders can restrain themselves from such irresponsible behaviour.

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Seeing that we have a large Ukrainian population, I am sure that Canada would also join in. But If the Germans and Brits are in there, you already have most if the equipment.

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In some circumstances NATO might drive on Moscow and St Petersburg

Nobody has a WWII-style 8 million man army at its disposal. NATO could no more take and hold Moscow than they could invade the moon.

The last couple attempts to do invasions and occupations 'on-the-cheap' haven't worked out so well. The Pentagon was originally advised it needed 400,000 men to properly secure Afghanistan (a country roughly the size of Ukraine). Their response was to demote the guy who made the statement. Russia looks nasty on paper but has an economy about the same size as Italy, I understand. Russia's own experiment in doing invasions and occupations 'on-the-cheap' isn't going so well for them these days.

Ukraine is a pretty big country, up there with France (and Afghanistan). That's plenty of real estate to fight over without anyone trying to grab Moscow!

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Hi,

No one is going to actuality fight over the Ukraine. NATO was always going to blink for the very good reason that they don’t have anything approaching a “real national interest..” great enough to justify the massive blood and treasure required to fight Russia over the Ukraine.

But The Great Game globally is certainly on. Serious players will start to square off against each other and it is very timely to return to playing and studying conventional war.

A rapid return to normal competition between nation states has started. Including in Europe. Just wait and see as defence budgets flat line then start to climb again everywhere.

All the best,

Kip.

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Seeing that we have a large Ukrainian population, I am sure that Canada would also join in. But If the Germans and Brits are in there, you already have most if the equipment.

I agree - I would like to see the Canadians in the game.

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Yes they could try a small harbour called Balaclava, which is within excellent striking distance of Sevastopol. Hang on, hasn't this been done before?:)

Yes my very first thought, hmmmm I could see some wondeful scenario possibilities using marines (US, Royal etc) and airmobile forces (Paras etc) especially if based arpound a campaign on the edges vs; militias supported by whatever the OPFor could string together. Include some rear echelon units dragged into defences in such a mobile operation.

Easy to justify CM sized battles.

I become more interested with this game < strangely.> I thought I was more interested 70's and 80's era cold war operations.

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