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lordhedgwich

Combat mission and steam.

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As for Eugene and Wargame being a big hit on Steam, what does that have to do with Combat Mission? They are hardly in the same category. I have Wargame too and it the sort of game that would appeal to the Steam crowd. Its an RTS, with life bars. Saying Wargame is grounded in realism is laughable. Its hardly realistic. Try playing a tank battle in Wargame and compare that with tank vs tank battles in Shock Force.

You are missing the point. You, me, the other poster, and probably a few other folk reading this have all got Wargame. Because we are the market for strategy games. Yes it is different to CM, but it appeals to the same type of people that buy CM. Did you find Wargame through Google or Eugene's web site before you bought it? - I suspect not.

Combat Mission is not easily found via a generic search on search engines, which is tragic. I have read so many threads on other wargaming/strategy forums where one poster has introduced CM to another who has never heard of it.

The "Steam Crowd" doesn't exist. I have been computer gaming since 1982 and I am a prolific user of Steam. Most of the titles I have bought on it are strategy.

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That Wargame clickfest certainly doesn't appeal to me.

No, but Graviteam Tactics does (as it does me) and it is available on Steam. The point I am getting at is that CM would appeal to a lot of the people on Steam who buy these sorts of titles. Not all of them were around to get their interest piqued by a CD on PC Gamer.

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Steam is no mystery to BF. They've already looked into it and determined it was not for them. I'm sure they are tired of responding to requests as to why they don't belong to Steam.

In my experience when someone says they are not interested constantly pestering them just makes them more resistant to the idea.

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Yeah I can just see it now. Joe Bloggs adds CM to his steam library to go with his Rome total war and wargame series, then after realising he ain't gonna be on top of this game in less than a week in fact it's gonna take him months, is on these forums bitching about how the game is broke. Not to mention mainstream reviews panning the game because they aren't able to spend the necessary time getting to grips with the unique GUI(which they'll probably say needs to be changed so it's like all the GUIs in other so called "wargames" and which would seriously limit CM capabilities) then there's the learning of actual real world tactics which require patience and timing to excute as opposed to harvesting resources and doing a dirty great big bum rush, or wanting to know why my Tiger got killed by a Sherman when Shermans are crap compared to Tigers.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see this game sell a kajillion copies and Steve and co set up a huge team to bring us the most awesome experience ever known to humanity and all that, BUT this is not really aimed at gamers as in the broad sense of the term "gamers" it's aimed at the military/wargame enthusiast and assumes you have at least a basic understanding of how the military world works and if you don't (and most people haven't got a clue) you just ain't gonna get it. It's trying to make the wargame experience real not play sycophant to some deluded fantasy of combat.

And IF you happen to fall into the category of military/wargame enthusiast it's just a matter of time until you end up here. Because you will be looking for something like this.

I should probably shut up now.

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.

There are many strategy games on Steam that are a lot harder to learn and play well than Combat Mission. I struggle to remember the last time I felt the need to read a CM manual. Steam has its own forums. Graviteam Tactics, probably one of the - initially - most forbidding UIs I have come across in gaming, has 28 positive and 2 negative reviews on Steam. The negative reviews are about the performance on low end CPUs.

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I can't understand why people try to go on and on and on about Steam on these forums like they are 12 years old.

We here don't make any decisions. So, the topic is cluttering up forum space and wasting readers' time.

Plz write a letter with all your new info re specs and marketing points to BFC.

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I can't understand why people try to go on and on and on about Steam on these forums like they are 12 years old.

We here don't make any decisions. So, the topic is cluttering up forum space and wasting readers' time.

Plz write a letter with all your new info re specs and marketing points to BFC.

Or, stop reading threads that don't interest you. I do it all the time.

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I discovered a similar site called good old games.com. Maybe they could put some of the CMx1 games on there to see how sales go.

But I am no marketing wizard, & I am sure that BFC has a better handle on their marketing and sales strategies than I do.

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Well, this whole Steam debate should be answered fairly soon. Matrix just put up Command Modern Air/Naval Operations on Steam. Not only will the price completely freak the Steamers out, but so will the complexity. That is one bad ass game in terms of learning curve. One way to measure its future success or failure will be to see if there is a big drop on the Steam forum discussions after a month or so. Most games that have died on Steam show little or no forum activity after a while. No big secret there.

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Don't get me wrong I'd love to see this game sell a kajillion copies and Steve and co set up a huge team to bring us the most awesome experience ever known to humanity and all that,

See there is the hole in the theory and the problem with developing a strategy that gets BF more sales. If Steve and Charles get too wealthy they are gonna say "screw this annoying fan base, let's just retire to Bali."

We have to make sure they have enough sales to make it worth doing, but not so much that they could retire...yet.

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Well, this whole Steam debate should be answered fairly soon. Matrix just put up Command Modern Air/Naval Operations on Steam. Not only will the price completely freak the Steamers out, but so will the complexity. That is one bad ass game in terms of learning curve. One way to measure its future success or failure will be to see if there is a big drop on the Steam forum discussions after a month or so. Most games that have died on Steam show little or no forum activity after a while. No big secret there.

I don't think Command will move BF to steam either way. We'll just have to wait and see.

Heard good things about Command Modern Air/Naval Ops, but I pretty much stick to CM these days - even though I spent countless hours with Harpoon-both pre-computer version and beyond.

While CMANO boasts to be the most realistic I think it has a huge flaw in that boast. There are no morale, experience or training factors involved. A flight of F-16's from a third rate country pretty much behaves and fights like a flight of F-16s from a first rate country.

The weapons modeling is impressive, but the training, experience, motivation and morale of the people who operate the weapons makes or breaks a military.

I hear the ground component needs some work too.

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I agree completely and would be amazed if CMANO was a big hit on Steam.

Very different games, and nothing compares to the immersion of CMx2 anyway. I bought CMANO on game day, and was duly impressed, as Harpoon has just looked like crap for too long. I like the in-game editor, too.

I can't handle learning the game right now anyway, so will wait about a year until all the issues you mentioned are addressed. They should be fairly easy to fix once the devs find the time.

I do expect the Steam CMANO forums to be pretty entertaining, though :)

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I guess, BF thinks that there are still too many additions and theater to add in this niche products. While they would sell at top price without risk to this group, why do they want to cut their profits? After all products and additions completion (7 years at least, I guess), they may go for Steam for second time release and marketing effort.

Regards

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I can get why they don't want to. Cannibalizing their own sales is probably number one.

Worst case: Everyone who buys directly from them instead buys from Steam and they get no new customers. Results in the same number of sales and 30-40% less cash. They would need to net an unknown number of new customers for it to start being a gain because they would lose current customers to Steam.

On the other hand I think the CMX1 series would do nicely as a Steam release.

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Command Modern Air / Naval Operations just arrived on Steam, currently in the top 20 sellers priced 45 pounds Sterling. Niche, much?

Please note that top sellers list is based upon the cumulative revenue generated by the sells and not the number of single copies sold. Therefore highly priced items have more chances to reach a higher top list level than a very low price item, since the latter will need to sell a lot more copies to cope with the difference in price and reach the same level on the top sellers list.

Moreover, a strong factor to reaching the top of said list stands in the number of highly priced items released every day: if on day 0 a 50$ product is released and on day 1 to 10 only 5 to 10$ products are released then you most probably find the 50$ product on top, unless one of the low priced one sells more than 5 times the numbers of the highly priced one. If on day 1 to 10 more 50$ titles are released you will find more competition for the day 0 released title.

All in all being on the top seller list right after release has little meaning, being on the top seller list for a long time and long after release has another meaning.

An indirect system to check sell numbers (which is in truth Always a secret information), is to check steamcharts, which tells how many people are playing the game at any moment. Despite this being, as I said, an indirect and partly faulty source of information it's still the best approximation of how well a product has sold on steam. So here it is the steamchart for the above mentioned title:

http://www.steamcharts.com/app/321410

You can cross reference with another information source: the number of reviews, given again the fact that the data is faulty because not every owner gives a review, yet you can add another piece of information to the view.

Taking the data with the necessarily sized pinch of salt I'd say the numbers are quite low.

This is an example of a product similar to combat mission series, in terms of niche/genre, with even lower pricing:

http://www.steamcharts.com/app/275290

Again, the numbers do no support this.

All in all only a developer can assess the advantage or disadvantage of being on steam, as we miss too many information especially when it comes to pricing and quotas of such pricing.

Many products passed on steam without having any strenght to create a real player base there, therefore falling in a forgotten, huge space of old titles.

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All of this snobbery is so disappointing. You know the Earth was flat before it was round .... the Sun revolved around the Earth before the Earth revolved around the Sun. I see so many misconceptions when it comes to having a title added to Steam its like a history lesson of ancient beliefs. But apparently Steam is a money losing proposition ... Moving on!

If BF is going to stay the course and steer away from Steam then they should seriously look at updating their business model. There are some dramatically better systems out there and improving/streamlining would certainly help sales and customer retention. As things stand now I am a reluctant customer for many of the titles due to unwieldy product management and poor support. Surely improvements here could translate into a better product and more sales!

von Luck

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I'm sure you will back up that statement with your reasons WHY they are wrong. Prove to us that BF's stated reasons are incorrect with regard to their business model and you will have one convert right here.

What? Why? BFC has made it clear that they aren't going to consider it, so why should I bother? They've chosen their path. I don't feel the need to convince people whose opinion is meaningless. Why would the position you take have any effect on me?

I find it hard to understand how software can be a "good game" and at the same time be "so bad"? I also would like to see your figures confirming your assertion that there are no new players playing the game (Since the original CM series of games).

This one is easy. The Combat Mission games are fun and engaging to anyone who enjoys this kind of strategy game. That doesn't change the fact that we recently got the ability to turn off the music in a DLC pack. Not even a volume slider, just a button! The game has obvious performance problems, even on high end PCs, because it just isn't efficient with the resources available. The way the game engine renders (not how pretty it looks) is hilariously inefficient. Someone forgot to read OpenGL for Newbies. Good game, bad software.

When you make assertions, as is your right, you should be aware that backing up those assertions with facts behind them bolsters your arguments and stops them being "just" opinions. If you state at the outset that you are "sure they are wrong" - well then please follow up!

Again, I don't really feel any pressing need to argue against the point that "businesses that sell on Steam go bankrupt!" when all I need to do is point out dozens of counter examples. If your opinion mattered, I would make an effort to change it.

None of this is all that surprising. I earn my Republican Tax Bracket Approved™ living swooping in a fixing issues created by intractable baby-boomer management who can't adapt to how software is sold in the 21st century, and business software changes at a glacial pace compared to the PC Games market.

BFC wants to keep doing what they are doing, and that is fine. The 4 activation system is very anti-customer, and even avid strategy gamers like myself didn't realize that Red Thunder was being released because Combat Mission games have no presence outside of their bubble, but whatever. BFC doesn't appear to be going bankrupt, so they can keep on truckin'

Otherwise you risk being taken to task, and that would happen face to face and not just on an internet forum.

If I don't backup my statement to your satisfaction on this internet forum I am going to be taken to task face to face? Oh no!

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I was playing arma 2 one day doing some battles against the mujahedeen with my soviet troops and i was like, man, if this could just be a strategy game that's what i would really want right now. It would be so awesome. So off i went onto Steam and had a browse through the strategy games list. I saw 9th Coy Roots of Terror, built on the men of war engine. Awesome i said, just what i want. So i bought it. Played it. It was fun, but it wasn't as realistic as i had hoped. I love editing, it had no editor. The gameplay fundamentals were very cool, equipping your soldiers individually and the firefights and cover system fun to see. But i wanted more. MOAR. So off I went onto the internet, to youtube, and searched soviet-afghan war games. After scrolling several pages through, Lo! What should appear but a trailer for CMA. It had few views and no comments but off i went to the battlefront website. When i got there i jizzed, i had found it. The game i was looking for. It was expensive for a poor student at the time but ****, i had to have it. I bought it, then cmsf shortly after, then cmbn, i was hooked. The point of my post is the journey. People who play realistic strategy and Sims crave more. They crave more depth and immersion. Wargame, hearts of iron, arma, steel beasts, the players of these games are the combat mission market. It was a hell of a round and about journey i took to get here. Instead it could of been right in front of me on suggested games next to arma or wargame. With a link to the demo and all the manuals so you can see it and try it before you buy. I would of been here alot sooner, and been enjoying games like cmsf when they first came out, not years later. My 150 quid or whatever it cost for the three titles and expansions would have been firmly in BFs pocket sooner, because of ease of access and advertisement.

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I visited the boards at Matrix. Doesn't seem to be much activity, but I did notice the game is discounted to $59 so I went ahead and got the download version directly from Matrix. I wouldn't recommend the full boxed version as the manual is way out of date.

The devs are promising a big surprise soon. I suspect its multiplayer. I've seen a few people mention morale and doctrine which would be a good step in the right direction.

Too bad its not like CM where you zoom in and actually see real vehicles and grunts. That would be nice.

There was a thread where someone mentioned that dropping the price and going onto to Steam is a bad idea. Keeping the price high assures that only those who really want the game will get it. Dropping the price will generate alot of people who will buy it at the discounted price and then demand a return and generate bad buzz when they get frustrated with it.

Being a hardcore ex-harpoon layer I'll probably have some fun with it, but if I had to choose only 1 I would pick Combat Mission without hesitation.

I have to wonder at a discounted price of $59 and Steam taking 20-30% off the top that must be like taking an Exocet up the backside when it comes to profit margin

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I don't own a single Combat Mission game. I'd like to own them all.

If they were on Steam, I would probably buy them all right this moment. But they are not. Thus I will continue waiting.

So no matter what people may try and claim, not being on Steam is losing sales. It is not just a matter of product awareness but actual decision making on part of potential customers. I like Steam's convenience and game management and do not want to be bothered with BF's asinine 1990's sales model.

I will keep checking back every couple of months to see if they choose to be customer friendly or not, but until then I will not be buying their games.

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I don't own a single Combat Mission game. I'd like to own them all.

If they were on Steam, I would probably buy them all right this moment. But they are not. Thus I will continue waiting.

So no matter what people may try and claim, not being on Steam is losing sales. It is not just a matter of product awareness but actual decision making on part of potential customers. I like Steam's convenience and game management and do not want to be bothered with BF's asinine 1990's sales model.

I will keep checking back every couple of months to see if they choose to be customer friendly or not, but until then I will not be buying their games.

wow 1 post and the first one is this....

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