Combat mission and steam.

[majorbly50]

If the only way I could purchase or play CM was via Steam, I would regretfully never play it again.

Battlefront could do it just like Matrixgames where they use both systems of delivery. Through steam and through their site as well. Therefore you'd always be able to buy from here and your game would be activated from either site. You'd never have to use Steam if you didn't want to and they would still get exposure on Steam by casuals and people interested that didn't know about this site or these games.

It's basically an advertising method that can perhaps be 30% of the sale. I don't know how much Steam gets but I do find that rather high. Of course I know Steve an others associated with Battlefront surely know and it's their game to decide how they want to distribute it.

Not caring for my sake because I know where the site is and where to get their games. I'm just thinking about the thousands of dollars they "may" gain by using Steam as well. Makes no difference to me whether they do use Steam or not though in the long run.

[Michael Emrys]

Fair enough.

Michael

[Jock Tamson]

Steam - filter Store to Strategy, order by top sellers, coming soon, videos, etc, etc, browse to your heart's content.

Google - which of these is going to lead me to Combat Mission? -

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+pc+wargame

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+pc+game

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+tactical+pc+game

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pc+wargame

I would love to see BFC take a step change in the next couple of years - a server executable for multiplayer, multiple players per side, Real Time with replays, an operational layer etc but the only way I can see that happening is a significant increase in exposure, revenue and manpower additions. Steam has become the main shop window for computer gaming, if you aren't going to use it then the alternative has to be good if you wish to do anything other than rely on word of mouth and your existing customers, and accept that that is the limit of your market exposure.

I'd love to see them test the Steam water with Shock Force because even after all these years there is nothing else like it, and with the recent HD mods, effects mods etc it looks damned good.

Command Modern Air / Naval Operations - surely more niche than CM - is coming to Steam in 4 days.

[sburke]

Thousands of dollars is probably not worth the effort - assume that steam only takes 10% $1000 is 25 sales and isn't going to fill Charle's jar more than a couple times with his favored champagne. Now if steam were to generate thousands of sales........ But it is highly doubtful that anyone has any data to lead one to that conclusion.

[A Canadian Cat]

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+pc+wargame

The hit was the Meta Critic list of war games where several Combat Mission game rank fairly high. I know not perfect since the ratings on Meta Critic are kinda screwy but they are there.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pc+wargame

Third link is the armchair general tutorials which is an awesome introduction to the game.

[Kieme(ITA)]

For what's Worth if I search on Google.it

"battlefront"

my first result is BFC site. The second is the famous star wars battlefront site.

"combat mission"

my first result is BFC site. The second, third, fourth etc. are Wikipedia entries dedicated to single combat mission games.

Effectively, any generic term like "tactical simulation game" etc. do not shot anything close to combat mission or bfc site, it's all first person stuff.

[Michael Emrys]

In light of majorbly50's explanation I withdraw any objection to CM appearing on Steam. But on the other hand, I think the predictions of significant increases in sales are optimistic if not utterly fantastic. The reason being that CM is definitely not every gamer's cup of tea. It isn't even every wargamer's cup of tea. I would expect that if it appeared on Steam, some number of the people who inhabit that place would reject it out of hand for one reason or another. A smaller number would try the demo and give up immediately because "It's too hard!" or again it really isn't what they are looking for. Of the much smaller number of people who decide to buy the game, some number would have heard about it in some other way, usually word of mouth or a friend's recommendation. So yes, there would probably be some incremental increase in sales, but whether the increased revenue would be worth BFC's time, only they can judge.

Michael

[Kieme(ITA)]

I agree, we costumers are on the other side of the barricade, nothing we can do about it other than empty speculations.

[Michael Emrys]

...we costumers...

I don't do much sewing myself. Not that I think it is unmanly or anything if you are into it.

Michael

[sburke]

I don't do much sewing myself. Not that I think it is unmanly or anything if you are into it.

Michael

He's a modder, it is how they think.

[aus3620]

Re the Steam discussion.

recently I added the DCS World freebie via Steam with a view to purchase the Huey module when it came on sale. The Huey module did come on sale at the DCS site much earlier and cheaper than the version that eventually made it to Steam.

So exit DCS World from Steam and install the developer's version. Turns out that the Steam version is a larger download plus the additional fee that Steam puts on top - not much to be honest.

[cool breeze]

I thought I would never say anything in any of theses CM on steam threads, since steve has been so clear on it and all, but what do you know.

I think it would be great to have CMSF added to steam. I think since it was already sold though retail with Paradox or whoever it wouldn't really change the CM series's battlefront.com exclusivity. It is a pretty old game now and people prefer newer games, so if it ever did go to steam it should do it as some kind of new annivesary or game of the year or whatever version that comes with HD texture mods, along with a toggle for the HD mods so the game can keep its original low minimum requirements.

[agusto]

Steam - filter Store to Strategy, order by top sellers, coming soon, videos, etc, etc, browse to your heart's content.

Google - which of these is going to lead me to Combat Mission? -

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+pc+wargame

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+pc+game

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ww2+tactical+pc+game

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=pc+wargame

Actually for a small fee Google will manipulate the search results for the one who pays most and show whatever results you want them to show at the first pages top positions. So at at least technically it would be possible for BFC to ensure that google searches for ww2 wargames related keywords always lead to their store.

[Lt Belenko]

When I think about STEAM I get hot under the collar.

[SgtHatred]

BFC is totally uninterested in Steam and have given their reasons. It is too bad, because I am sure they are wrong, but you'll never convince the geriatric cheer-leading brigade here of that.

Battlefront is a company of game designers and grognards, which is why they make such good games. Unfortunately, that also explains why their software is so bad and their market these days is restricted to people who bought their previous games.

Since Steam is out of the question, another model for improvement might be the DCS model. Ignoring the fact that they managed to put their software on Steam without going bankrupt, DCS is another niche games company with a focus on realism, and they even come from the land of the software pirate (Russia). It hasn't stopped them from having a more customer friendly activation system.

[Chek]

I just paid top dollar to be involved in a beta release of a crowd funded game. Never ever been in a beta before, not interested.

However in this case the main developer has been making games since the early 80's, I'm familiar with their products and I completely trust that they will deliver a satisfying experience. I have not been disappointed.

My attitude towards battlefront is the same and I would much rather see every penny I pay going into their pockets in order for it to be turned into something I get a huge amount of pleasure from, in fact I see it more as an investment. Steam's doing fine without BF and BF is certainly doing fine without them, so why bother.

[Erwin]

Welcome to "the geriatric cheer-leading brigade".

[Chek]

"BOO YAH"

Yeah long live us. I hope I make it to the next BF release.

[Noba]

BFC is totally uninterested in Steam and have given their reasons. It is too bad, because I am sure they are wrong, but you'll never convince the geriatric cheer-leading brigade here of that.

I'm sure you will back up that statement with your reasons WHY they are wrong. Prove to us that BF's stated reasons are incorrect with regard to their business model and you will have one convert right here.

Battlefront is a company of game designers and grognards, which is why they make such good games. Unfortunately, that also explains why their software is so bad and their market these days is restricted to people who bought their previous games.

I find it hard to understand how software can be a "good game" and at the same time be "so bad"? I also would like to see your figures confirming your assertion that there are no new players playing the game (Since the original CM series of games).

Since Steam is out of the question, another model for improvement might be the DCS model. Ignoring the fact that they managed to put their software on Steam without going bankrupt, DCS is another niche games company with a focus on realism, and they even come from the land of the software pirate (Russia). It hasn't stopped them from having a more customer friendly activation system.

I'm not familiar with DCS so no comment from me there.

When you make assertions, as is your right, you should be aware that backing up those assertions with facts behind them bolsters your arguments and stops them being "just" opinions. If you state at the outset that you are "sure they are wrong" - well then please follow up! Otherwise you risk being taken to task, and that would happen face to face and not just on an internet forum.

Noba.

[A Canadian Cat]

I'm sure you will back up that statement with your reasons WHY they are wrong.

I am certain that this is a waste of time but here goes...

I find it hard to believe that @SgtHatred will be able to show that they are wrong. Considering that Steve has been in contact with Valve and seen the business agreement for Steam. He said a while back that the terms of that agreement were not good for them and further that those parts he did not like were not publicly available. So, I suppose there is a small chance that @SgtHatred has seen the same agreements and an even smaller chance that he understands how that applies to BFC. But I'm not betting on it because those look like really long odds to me.

[Stagler]

Just my two cents here.

The Wargame series, a game which originally had its roots in tactical wargaming, became a hit solely through steam distribution. People were introduced to a strategy game, grounded in realism and which you need to know odds and ends of the battlefield and be a kit spotter, to be able to play and succeed, and they thrived on it. It spawned two sequels, albeit progressively getting worse with each release, but it catapulted Eugen systems, the unknown and new developer into stardom and seemingly, riches. Now the latest wargame series are in the top steam games list, all the time.

The games are not getting worse through poor gameplay aspects, the developer has strangely decied to progressively add to each release with the latest one including naval combat which diluted the core land warfare based gameplay.

Maybe more people would like Combat Mission if they knew about it. That is what happened to Wargame. People saw that this type of game was good, it was accessible through steam and easily advertised, and before they knew it Eugen had sold thousands of copies of Wargame: European Escalation and had enough money and success to create two more games in the series.

I understand BF has money reservations about steam distribution, but you have to spend to earn. Maybe they should consider marketing one older game on the system and then decide after the success from that. CM:BN for example.

[sburke]

I am certain that this is a waste of time but here goes...

I find it hard to believe that @SgtHatred will be able to show that they are wrong. Considering that Steve has been in contact with Valve and seen the business agreement for Steam. He said a while back that the terms of that agreement were not good for them and further that those parts he did not like were not publicly available. So, I suppose there is a small chance that @SgtHatred has seen the same agreements and an even smaller chance that he understands how that applies to BFC. But I'm not betting on it because those look like really long odds to me.

lol yep a total waste of time. This is the classic "I read one book on this and now I am an expert on the space" kind of attitude of the newly indoctrinated. They typically have no real world experience to rely on. Sort of like a soon to be casualty 2nd Lt.

The really funny thing these guys don't get is if BF's livelihood is dependent on the success of their games and they see no reason for going to steam, why does everyone keep pushing it on them? They have run their business successfully for 15 years now, they apparently know something about what they are doing. Let it go already.

sburke of the Geriatric Cheer Leading Brigade

[db_zero]

BF has repeatedly stated they are doing fine as is and they have plenty n the works to prove that. If Steam isn't right for them, then it isn't right for them.

As for Eugene and Wargame being a big hit on Steam, what does that have to do with Combat Mission? They are hardly in the same category. I have Wargame too and it the sort of game that would appeal to the Steam crowd. Its an RTS, with life bars. Saying Wargame is grounded in realism is laughable. Its hardly realistic. Try playing a tank battle in Wargame and compare that with tank vs tank battles in Shock Force. If Wargame was grounded in realism the naval combat would be closer to Harpoon, than Rome Total War.

As for players who won't try out Combat Mission because its not on Steam, I would have to question whether they are the sort of players worth the bother. If they lack the initiative to investigate a non Steam game or too lazy to type in a search n google or just visit the Battlefront website to see for themselves, then they probably are not going to take the time and effort to learn the Combat Mission system and become and good.

I don't know exactly how Steam handles business. They are not publicly listed to my knowledge so you don't have to deal with shareholders or a board of directors, but even if privately held you still have to deal with individuals who may have control issues or certain ideas of how things should be done and that may not be in BFs interests.

Oftentimes when you enter an agreement with a big entity like Steam you have to bring in the lawyers as you will most definitely be signing a lot of legal documents and you better know whats in the fine print. Maybe BF just does not want to have to deal with this sort of baggage.

My impression of BF is they are passionate about their craft and are content with making a decent living while doing what they truly love and just don't want the headaches that come along when you have to deal with corporate types and you can be sure that once you join steam you're going to have to deal with the legions of people on Steam demanding this or that.

Nothing is free in this world and sometimes becoming "big" and making more money isn't all that its cracked up to be and the headaches that accompany it just isn't worth it.

[Michael Emrys]

My impression of BF is they are passionate about their craft and are content with making a decent living while doing what they truly love and just don't want the headaches that come along when you have to deal with corporate types and you can be sure that once you join steam you're going to have to deal with the legions of people on Steam demanding this or that.

Nothing is free in this world and sometimes becoming "big" and making more money isn't all that its cracked up to be and the headaches that accompany it just isn't worth it.

I couldn't agree more. It's not just about the money. As Steve has repeatedly said, they could earn more money in other lines of work, individually or collectively. They are doing something they love and that we love. Why not leave them alone to do it the way that they choose? That strikes me as the best business plan.

Michael

[Jock Tamson]

Otherwise you risk being taken to task, and that would happen face to face and not just on an internet forum.

If he was "taken to task" by another forum dweller, that would be just another opinion.

My reasons for wanting CM on Steam have nothing to do with BFC's livelihoods per se. I want the kind of exposure for CM that Steam brings. Even if they only did this for CMSF - which plays pretty well these days - the exposure would bring interest to the other titles. This sort of sea change in market exposure and resultant revenue increase is the only way we will ever get really significant new additions such as a server executable, replays in real time etc as it would open the possibility of an increase in the dev team size. Crusader Kings has sold a million units on Steam for goodness sake!

This, of course, is an opinion. If someone can point to other publishers of strategy titles who regret making software available on Steam, I will stand corrected. But it seems the traffic is all the other way - Command Modern Air / Naval Operations just arrived on Steam, currently in the top 20 sellers priced 45 pounds Sterling. Niche, much?

The other reason is patches. Anyone who uses Steam knows the advantages there.