Pelican Pal Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 My bold. So.. If I take a picture of the Mona Lisa, and distribute it, then all is okay? I mean, the artist is long dead. The picture is still sitting on display in the Louvre. I've "freed" it so that others can enjoy it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#mediaviewer/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci,_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg What if the artist is still alive? What if he has his painting up for sale? I mean, c'mon, he still HAS it after I took a picture and distributed it. I've "taken" nothing? Correct, you've physically not taken anything. The artist still has the object. It is MY apple. Not yours. If I don't want the image of it distributed, then that's my choice, not yours. Also true. You don't like DRM? Hmm, I wonder why we are saddled with DRM? Oh, wait! I know! It's because people are trying to PROTECT their property rights. As a consumer who purchases my products I do not like DRM. Does any consumer like DRM? Do you see that a game comes with Securom and think "ooh boy, look at that added value!"? So, you think piracy is okay and then say DRM is a problem? Get a clue. No, I never said that. You are fixated on the physical media. An apple can be stolen ONLY because the original owner is missing it? But a digital copy, illicitly made, is a victimless act? Bull. It can't be stolen in the traditional sense because it still exists. There are an infinite number of copies of the item in question. However, it is not necessarily a victimless act. You have an apple you are going to sell. I steal that apple. You now have nothing to sell. However, if you were going to sell pictures of that apple online and I take a picture of it and post it online you still have the opportunity to sell that picture. (lets ignore the absurdity of charging for pictures of apples). What you've lost the is the possibility of a certain number of sales, but we don't know how many that is and at what price point. If 100 people download my free apple picture you potentially lost out on 100 sales, but you also definitely didn't. Those 100 people would not all have paid money for your picture. So you lost somewhere between 0 and 100 potential sales, but as you get closer to 100 the actual chance of it being a lost sale decreases. Oddly enough you might have actually made more money due to the piracy, although this is not necessarily true. If 100 people download that picture but never had an intention to buy it, and then tell 100 people about it who do buy it, who would not have heard of it otherwise, then you've made more money. The important point here is that a digital download does not equal a lost sale. It is the potential loss of a potential sale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Pelican Pal, I would invite you to read this great read on the complex gaming piracy topic. Read the whole thing and you'll see lot's of things you are making the case for are thoroughly explained in that article. Seeing the numbers discussed there I got to understand what a precious little thing we have when it comes to Battlefront developers. If there is anything I've got to say to them is: "Thank you guys for managing to stay afloat for so long in such a harsh business/competition environment and giving us amazingly unique products." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The important point here is that a digital download does not equal a lost sale. It is the potential loss of a potential sale. And it is still definitely having something you did not pay for and have no right to have without having paid for. Therefore theft. All the rest of that fluff is just crap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtHatred Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Wow, a lot of gibberish and poorly formulated anecdotes on both sides of a discussion that really has a minimal relationship with the topic at hand, which is a terrible activation system that reduces a purchase to a rental. Do you really think that the people who can't figure out how to do a volume slider made an unbreakable activation system? Combat Mission simply isn't popular enough for pirates to bother. There are better options, but I keep forgetting that BF is a special snowflake that cannot survive where every other developer has gone before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Wow, a lot of gibberish and poorly formulated anecdotes on both sides of a discussion that really has a minimal relationship with the topic at hand, which is a terrible activation system that reduces a purchase to a rental. Actually, the opposite is true. DRM systems that rely on online clients (such as Steam) are rentals in a way. Our activation system, which never expires, cannot be deactivated externally, and doesn't call home, is an actual purchase. You own the physical goods you buy, such as the disc and the content, or, in the case of a download, the bits and bytes on your PC. You can resell it, for example, once you don't need it, that's perfectly legit. What you do not own is the right to copy and distribute the content, for free or for money. You do not own the copyright. Our activation system merely enforces what you can't do and allows you to do what you can do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 And it is still definitely having something you did not pay for and have no right to have without having paid for. Therefore theft. Thanks for pointing out the obvious... I guess. SgtHatred While the current DRM scheme is a bummer it isn't that big of a deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtHatred Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Actually, the opposite is true. DRM systems that rely on online clients (such as Steam) are rentals in a way. Our activation system, which never expires, cannot be deactivated externally, and doesn't call home, is an actual purchase. You own the physical goods you buy, such as the disc and the content, or, in the case of a download, the bits and bytes on your PC. You can resell it, for example, once you don't need it, that's perfectly legit. What you do not own is the right to copy and distribute the content, for free or for money. You do not own the copyright. Our activation system merely enforces what you can't do and allows you to do what you can do. Alright. I've installed CMBN at least twice before (possibly 3 times, I don't remember) since 2011. Over the next 6-8 months I plan the following. - Intel chipset upgrade (broadwell or a 4960x), new motherboard time! - SSD upgrade. I plan on eliminating spinning disks from my desktop entirely - Windows Threshold None of these are likely to happen at the same time, so that's 3 more activations. My understanding is that I have 4 total activations, and the right to beg for 1 more per year, correct? Is that going to leave me with a purchased piece of software I can't use, because I've exceeded the allowed amount of use? I don't like asking for permission to use something I've purchased. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 http://memecrunch.com/meme/3GJG6/i-just-came-here-to-read-the-comments/image.png?w=420&c=1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacroix Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Alright. I've installed CMBN at least twice before (possibly 3 times, I don't remember) since 2011. Over the next 6-8 months I plan the following. - Intel chipset upgrade (broadwell or a 4960x), new motherboard time! - SSD upgrade. I plan on eliminating spinning disks from my desktop entirely - Windows Threshold None of these are likely to happen at the same time, so that's 3 more activations. My understanding is that I have 4 total activations, and the right to beg for 1 more per year, correct? Is that going to leave me with a purchased piece of software I can't use, because I've exceeded the allowed amount of use? I don't like asking for permission to use something I've purchased. thats how i felt/feel , but they told me that BFC is very helpful with such things, so i guess we shouldnt worry. still far far from good system...i 'd rather have my copy in my hands all the time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I don't like asking for permission to use something I've purchased. still far far from good system...i 'd rather have my copy in my hands all the time And software developers don't like to have something that they've worked very hard on for years stolen. So here's your compromise: DRM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacroix Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 And software developers don't like to have something that they've worked very hard on for years stolen. So here's your compromise: DRM thats not compromise. its ''their'' way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 thats not compromise. its ''their'' way So develop your own game and distribute it how you want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 stolen I understand why you are trying to frame the conversation this way, but you do realise that copyright infringement is NOT stealing, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The part that really angers me, is that often pirates end up with a better version of what I paid for (they probably don't have to deal with the extra BS, that any DRM brings). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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