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Lacroix

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There are a lot of poor assumptions that are being made. We don't have a firm hand on the rate of piracy for any given game. Furthermore, we don't know what that means for sales.

You also cannot fully equate digital piracy with physical theft. If you have one apple and I take it you are out an apple. However if you have a picture of an apple and I copy that picture you still have a picture. You lost nothing by my action. To copy a digital file is free. So at a base level piracy costs the original file owner nothing.

Now a second important point. Pirating a game does not mean that I would have purchased it.

So the actual effect of piracy on any given game's income is an unknown. Whether the effect is negative or positive is also an unknown. It is quite possible that piracy could increase the overall income a game earns.

Whether DRM is even required isn't even a sure thing.

even tho i am in my opinion now at least, guilty of some poor assumptions regarding this specific theme,i agree

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even tho i am in my opinion now at least, guilty of some poor assumptions regarding this specific theme,i agree

I wouldn't straight up call piracy a only wrong choice. The world is a grey place and piracy falls into that.

Is piracy wrong if the conversion from your local currency to the currency for the purchase of the game equivalent to 6 months pay?

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I have a (somewhat tongue in cheek) suggestion to offer ref CM piracy. I maintain that CM needs to somehow float (allow pirates to steal it--an old spook trick) a version of the game which has been secretly loaded with higher than usual doses of E-crack (DEA has yet to learn of it).

As we know, and have known since the CMBO Alpha Demo, E-crack is insidious stuff, leading ineluctably to wholesale diversion of energies from other activities in order to play CM. Since the pirates in this example would otherwise likely be conducting further piracy, not only would higher than mere humans can tolerate E-crack doses more or less guarantee BFC more indirect customers (pirates won't be able to stop talking about the game), but even direct ones.

How? The bait version of the game will contain secret triggers which start randomly glitching the game--during the game. All of a sudden the LOS tool ceases to work, the artillery mission stops for no apparent reason, ammo counters zero. AFVs blaze away at nothing at Target ROF, the game clock reverses itself or troops execute some random order and in a random direction. In case the message got lost, the ransomware angle could be used by, say, freezing the game outright or threatening to wipe out the saved game files or black the screen as the turn executes! Even if BFC squeezed ten bucks out of these clowns to keep their game going (Order now!), I'd imagine it would considerably help the P&L figures.

It might take a Mini Charlesâ„¢ to do this, but even so, the notion is delicious to contemplate.

Regards,

John Kettler

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I wouldn't straight up call piracy a only wrong choice. The world is a grey place and piracy falls into that.

Is piracy wrong if the conversion from your local currency to the currency for the purchase of the game equivalent to 6 months pay?

Yes. You take something without paying for it, is theft period. If you guys can't understand that it makes me wonder how flexible your overall moral concepts are

That whole analogy of digital nonsense is crap. You took something that didn't belong to you. It doesn't matter what you left or what they had. You either respect someone's ownership of their property or you don't. It really is that simple. Trying to argue some gray area is simply trying to excuse your behavior. And your conversion rate has nothing to do with your stealing a game. BF doesn't set conversion rates, why would that have anything to do with whether you pay them. By that logic if you live in a country with lousy conversion rates you are entitled to take whatever you want from anyone else?

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its easy to say that its not subjective i mean everyone can say that. but in reality you can't just single handedly decide what is right or wrong, if theres such thing.

i mean why would i agree with '' no , its like this, i am right, its not subjective''.

there might be someone who would say '' no,even if you steal bread for children, its a theft, its not allowed, period its not allowed''

then who is right, you or him? where do we draw the line, if theres such thing

i dont belive in right and wrong only in different choices, so i cant resonate with you very much, you can have like 80% or 90% people on this forum on your side (of the argument) but thats just argument of the majority, and we all know what is that, numbers.

we are not talking about 2+2 = 4 , we are talking something more apperantly complex

No. We are not. There's nothing "complex" about stealing something that doesn't belong to you. It's a shame your parents didn't teach you that. World would be a much better place if there were less people that thought like you.

Your "philosophy" is utter b***s***. But it's a great way to excuse anything anyone might do; it's not wrong to molest a child...it's a choice. It's not wrong to kill a an innocent guy standing in his yard...it's a choice...it's not wrong to take things from other people...it's a choice. LOL. WTF?

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Is piracy wrong if the conversion from your local currency to the currency for the purchase of the game equivalent to 6 months pay?

Then maybe you shouldn't be playing games?

I can't afford a Yacht, no matter what currency it's in...be cool to have one though...maybe I should pirate me one? I deserve it.

Mord.

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I can't afford a Yacht, no matter what currency it's in...be cool to have one though...maybe I should pirate me one? I deserve it.

Mord.

That is okay Mord, it is just a choice. Besides they say the best two days in a boat owners life are the day they get it and the day they get rid of it. You are giving them their second greatest day, it is a gift! See how easy it is to rationalize?

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Yes. You take something without paying for it, is theft period. If you guys can't understand that it makes me wonder how flexible your overall moral concepts are

Well there are two actual arguments that are going on here. The moral one and the actual physical results of doing what some consider morally wrong.

Is piracy theft in the moral sense? For many people it is equivalent. You are one of those people.

However, it isn't equivalent in a very physical sense. Digital goods are in many ways a new frontier. If I copy a digital file you still have it. If I take your apple you do not. These are no longer equivalent physical acts.

That whole analogy of digital nonsense is crap. You took something that didn't belong to you. It doesn't matter what you left or what they had.

It does very much. Because suddenly you have a literal infinite amount of a good. Our societies entire concept, both moral and legal, of theft (and much more), is based on things being finite. One of the areas that isn't true is copyright law.

And your conversion rate has nothing to do with your stealing a game. BF doesn't set conversion rates, why would that have anything to do with whether you pay them. By that logic if you live in a country with lousy conversion rates you are entitled to take whatever you want from anyone else?

That is the question.

A company chargers what they consider a fair price. Would they want to charge someone an unfair price for their good due to the vagaries of the international economy? Would they actually want to charge 6 months wages for their product? Is it actually harmful to the company if that person who would never every buy it then pirated the application?

This is all a very morally and economically gray area. Is it morally wrong to copy an infinite digital file if your legal access to it is so limited as to be essentially impossible?

Mord

Here is where the difference between physical and digital goods is very important. If I take someone's boat they no longer have one. However, if I copy an infinitely copyable digital file they still have that file.

Now that leads us to the question of: Is that a lost sale? Which is really the important part when speaking of an infinite resource. Not whether you still have it, because of course you have it, but whether you were cheated of (what you consider) fair compensation for it. Now if there was never an intention on the person who copied the file to pay you for it then did you actually lose anything? Might you have actually gain something?

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Your arguments are nowhere near as clever as you seem to think they are. Nope it is still wrong. Obfuscate all you want, most of us here have a very clear understanding that what does not belong to me is not mine to just take and all the justifications aren't particularly convincing. Nope you guys are just cheap with a sense of self entitlement.

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I assume if I buy the full box version with the actual game DVD and manual of any CM game that I don't have to deal with activation codes, online activation or any of that? I can install and un-install the game as often as I like, change my pc's hardware all I want, etc., and as long as I type in the serial code that comes inside the game box when I re-install, the game will work with no problems and no need to ever contact BTS about key codes, correct?

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Your arguments are nowhere near as clever as you seem to think they are. Nope it is still wrong. Obfuscate all you want, most of us here have a very clear understanding that what does not belong to me is not mine to just take and all the justifications aren't particularly convincing. Nope you guys are just cheap with a sense of self entitlement.

What am I justifying?

I don't pirate games. Like y'all like to point out I have 400+ games on Steam. I bought those.

At this point we are talking past each other.

Lee, all copies regardless of their location of purchase contain the same DRM scheme.

Edit:

You seem to think that I am saying piracy is okay. When I've actually been taking pains to avoid stating my opinion on the situation.

But hey if you don;t want to engage in a conversation that is your choice.

PAK40

I read the article and while interesting I don't see it as actually having much merit. Especially now. There is simply too much guess work happening, general lack of data, and claims of a dire PC gaming future which obviously have no come to pass for me to take it seriously. For example, he writes about possible alternative business models and cites subscription and episodic content as viable alternatives. Episodic games never really took off and although a few companies produce them they are a rarity, and subscription based games is an elephant graveyard.

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Lee, all copies regardless of their location of purchase contain the same DRM scheme.

Well, as long as any time I get a new computer, or upgrade the one I have, I can get additional keys with no problem if I need them to keep playing the game I own, the I guess that's not too bad. But I'd rather not have to bother BTS about it, just be able to play the game I own as much as I want regadless of how much I upgrade my computer. That's one of the reasons I like owning my own personal physical copy of my games.

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Yea, it is a bit of a bummer. There are a lot of cool things you could do without the DRM. Like install CM to an appropriately sized flashdrive and tote it around with you everywhere.

The actual key system isn't actually that intrusive and they, as far as I've heard, are very responsive about fixing issues people have.

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No. We are not. There's nothing "complex" about stealing something that doesn't belong to you. It's a shame your parents didn't teach you that. World would be a much better place if there were less people that thought like you.

Your "philosophy" is utter b***s***. But it's a great way to excuse anything anyone might do; it's not wrong to molest a child...it's a choice. It's not wrong to kill a an innocent guy standing in his yard...it's a choice...it's not wrong to take things from other people...it's a choice. LOL. WTF?

Then maybe you shouldn't be playing games?

I can't afford a Yacht, no matter what currency it's in...be cool to have one though...maybe I should pirate me one? I deserve it.

Mord.

#yep, kill a child its ok. rape a woman , ok. nothing wrong with that, its just that its probably not a pleasent experience for the ''victims''.

(well unless you are a christian(which i am not) and belive in bible, but even then i think someone killed someone or tried to kill , on gods orders)

or wait, you must be the one who is seeking morality from ''simply being human'' , well i have to tell you , i am kinda not into fantasy, lately

#how do you define what is bad and what is good,just dont tell me '' its what everyone knows, also my parents told me''

#not being able to play CM cos you dont have money is also not pleasnt,just saying

#child not beaing able to breathe while being raped or killed, will , lets say will try to reach a stone and kill his ''agressor'' ,in a same way someone who cant play CM (lets deal with it , not everyone lives in western europe) will try to reach the tool to bring CM to him (or her, but we all know females dont play this cos they are inferior)

but why are we stealing animal's habitat ,bugs' habitat and even laugh when we kill one (bug at least). oh right, because there is no imaginary law that we are binded to.

or more precisly you are binded to, your parents arent teaching you much, they are just passing tradition onto you,which you accept so passionately

is hunting animals (LEGALY ofcourse, with permission) morally ok with you?

if its not , then where do we draw the line about what is wrong or right.

is it simply the piece of paper that was writen by an unqualified politician?

that was choosen by the sheeps who choose their presidents based on personal gains,color of the hair of the candidate,color of the party or simply because its -IN- to put a piece of paper in the basket

well unless we live in a DIRECT democracy, even then, its other people's laws/thoughts, because (hypothetically) i do not agree with them.yep you can stone me to death , you have 51% or 99% people on your side, but i am not* buying your philosophies

maybe i shouldnt be playing games,but you said it. Maybe , you answered your question or statement

in the end, you can say '' you are bad , piracy is bad, its a theft'' and (since you will dismiss all what i wrote as an excuse i ll just say

OK

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There are a lot of poor assumptions that are being made. We don't have a firm hand on the rate of piracy for any given game. Furthermore, we don't know what that means for sales.

You also cannot fully equate digital piracy with physical theft. If you have one apple and I take it you are out an apple. However if you have a picture of an apple and I copy that picture you still have a picture. You lost nothing by my action. To copy a digital file is free. So at a base level piracy costs the original file owner nothing.

Now a second important point. Pirating a game does not mean that I would have purchased it.

So the actual effect of piracy on any given game's income is an unknown. Whether the effect is negative or positive is also an unknown. It is quite possible that piracy could increase the overall income a game earns.

Whether DRM is even required isn't even a sure thing.

My bold.

So.. If I take a picture of the Mona Lisa, and distribute it, then all is okay? I mean, the artist is long dead. The picture is still sitting on display in the Louvre. I've "freed" it so that others can enjoy it?

What if the artist is still alive? What if he has his painting up for sale? I mean, c'mon, he still HAS it after I took a picture and distributed it. I've "taken" nothing?

Note that the flaw in your assumption does not hinge upon whether or not I charge for the distribution of the image.

It is MY apple. Not yours. If I don't want the image of it distributed, then that's my choice, not yours.

You don't like DRM? Hmm, I wonder why we are saddled with DRM? Oh, wait! I know! It's because people are trying to PROTECT their property rights.

So, you think piracy is okay and then say DRM is a problem?

Get a clue.

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"Torrents can lead to more sales. Look at me." Bull.

If I've paid $60 for a game, I'm gonna put some time into it. Hell, I'm gonna put time into reading reviews BEFORE I buy it. After I buy, you can be damn sure I'm going to play it. If I get frustrated, I'll find a way around it: is it the control scheme, or a "puzzle" challenge? I'll look up solutions online.

If I have a free game, I'm not going to try very hard to "get into it".

To Pelican Pal:

You are fixated on the physical media. An apple can be stolen ONLY because the original owner is missing it? But a digital copy, illicitly made, is a victimless act? Bull.

How much is my labor worth? If I work on making something, even if it is only to find the perfect apple, then I have labored. It is for me to decide who gets the fruit of my labor. Intellectual labor is no less labor than physical labor. The effort which has gone into making a game is "owned" by those who put in that effort. It is up to them to choose who gets the fruit of their labor. If you take their labor from them, then you have stolen from them. They had to work for your pleasure with no recompense or choice. There is a word for that.

Who are you to determine the value, or lack thereof, that the apple owner attaches to the image of the apple?

Did you go out to the orchard? Did you seek out the "right" apple? Did you climb the tree? Hell, did you plant, water, prune, and nurture that tree? Did you return with the apple?

The foundation of free society is based upon the precept that each individual is free to choose how to labor and that the individual, and only the individual, gets the fruit of that labor.

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"Torrents can lead to more sales. Look at me." Bull.

If I've paid $60 for a game, I'm gonna put some time into it. Hell, I'm gonna put time into reading reviews BEFORE I buy it. After I buy, you can be damn sure I'm going to play it. If I get frustrated, I'll find a way around it: is it the control scheme, or a "puzzle" challenge? I'll look up solutions online.

If I have a free game, I'm not going to try very hard to "get into it".

(i know torrents not so good for gaming but are they that evil?)

if i dont have money,and dont have torrent ,i am not gona even get the chance to get into it and later buy it

now people who have money and dont wana spend on the game,well thats another story.

but,maybe he has physicaly 50 -60 dollars but he also have to buy food or fix his car so he doesnt die on the highway , just saying. determining who has money in the 1 year period is very , very complex

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(i know torrents not so good for gaming but are they that evil?)

if i dont have money,and dont have torrent ,i am not gona even get the chance to get into it and later buy it

now people who have money and dont wana spend on the game,well thats another story.

but,maybe he has physicaly 50 -60 dollars but he also have to buy food or fix his car so he doesnt die on the highway , just saying. determining who has money in the 1 year period is very , very complex

You need to realign your gyros.

It's okay to steal if you can't afford what you want? But it's only a little evil?

I hope, for your sake, that no one ever looks at your possessions and decides that they want them, even though they can't afford them.

I sincerely hope that you only spouted your examples in your "OK" post because you're a witless victim of propaganda and programming.

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You need to realign your gyros.

It's okay to steal if you can't afford what you want? But it's only a little evil?

I hope, for your sake, that no one ever looks at your possessions and decides that they want them, even though they can't afford them.

I sincerely hope that you only spouted your examples in your "OK" post because you're a witless victim of propaganda and programming.

lol i wouldnt kill a child, i even save bugs from my house when they come in from my cat ,cos i think how would it be that some alien/creature who is 40 or 4000 meters tall just kill me and forget about it 5 seconds later

but i dont see killing a child as something wrong,its just what it is, experience.

unpleasnt one? i guess so. for the child at least

on other hand child killer, he had some fun times

do i value animals and humans equaly, ALMOST, cant say i really do , yet.

if human (specific imaginary situation) is not deserving to live in my opinion, i would rather save animal who does deserve (in my opinion)

fake humanity is not the answer too

-----------------------------------------------------------------

now that i have no longer tag of the monster ,i dont know is it ok, i was just saying that not having money = not buying

then why not just download torrent while you can and later (since thats the nature of CM games, they get you longterm) buy the game and play with proper patches/features

its good that there are no fully updated torrents for CM i must admit that, duuno would people buy cm then as much as they do now, but considering this community is kinda older and 70% i guesswestern (western =not poor ) and also the game wont atract little kids who want to shoot people on the screen and not pay for games (that must have been fair representation of younger people i know) - i dont think torrents hurt CM, also because its not so popular, now its just an assumption, i cant proove it

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Lacroix, it seems to me the best solution is to finish building your machine, then install the game. It's a good game to have, but it likes a stable environment.

It is unfortunate (for you) that your peculiarity (tinkering with your machine) impacts on your enjoyment of the game, but the cost to Battlefront of addressing this blip in their marketing strategy is likely far greater than the likely income generated. BF tend to be pretty good at keeping their customers; if the only hassle is filling out application letters on your end, you can hardly blame them for wanting to keep track of activations. Welcome to the surveillance economy.

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Lacroix, it seems to me the best solution is to finish building your machine, then install the game. It's a good game to have, but it likes a stable environment.

It is unfortunate (for you) that your peculiarity (tinkering with your machine) impacts on your enjoyment of the game, but the cost to Battlefront of addressing this blip in their marketing strategy is likely far greater than the likely income generated. BF tend to be pretty good at keeping their customers; if the only hassle is filling out application letters on your end, you can hardly blame them for wanting to keep track of activations. Welcome to the surveillance economy.

well i hope that they will give keys whenever i write a polite , long/explaining application/letter, its not perfect but i am happy if thats the case.

if they dont, i ll pirate cmbn 1.01 and ruin their company for eternity!

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