New in Black Sea : Precision Artillery

[Lille Fiskerby]

Hi Guys

I have been following ChrisND's videos on Twitch for

some time now, its really great stuff and if you want

news on Combat Mission this is the best place to

get it at the moment.

Now, precision artillery is one round without spotting

rounds and no TRP, check it out if you like :

www.twitch.tv/chrisnd/c/4699769

LF

[Tank Hunter]

Pretty cool! Thx for sharing..

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

Nice, tak for linket.

[ChrisND]

Something I forgot to mention during the stream:

Russia and Ukraine will also have precision rounds for certain calibers (120mm mortars for Russia, 152mm artillery for Russia/Ukraine).

[Dim]

Yay! More things to make me wonder why the hell my IFV's are spontaneously exploding. It really is quite amazing how many men must not even know what hit them on the modern battlefield. Are these the rounds they like to hit the taliban IED teams with?

[Lille Fiskerby]

Du er velkommen, AtheistDane

Du er velkommen = knock yourself out

LF

[agusto]

I wonder if we are going to see something like that in CMBS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_Rocket,_Artillery,_and_Mortar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAK22XkEa-o

They basically took the technology used on warships to shoot down incoming anti-ship missiles and modified it so it can take down incoming artillery rounds as well.

[Stagler]

Nice to see the artwork on the Russian infantry also.

[Buzz]

Nice update on new features.

[John Kettler]

I highly recommend perusing this somewhat dated Russian Land Forces catalog from ROSBORONEXPORT, starting at page 41. See particularly pp 51-53: The Russians have in service, and are offering export versions of, laser guided shells for the 122mm gun, the 152mm gun, the 155mm gun (for foreign systems only), the 120mm mortar and the 240mm mortar.

http://www.military-today.com/russian_land_forces.pdf

The Russians have DPICM for the 122mm BM-21 Grad (presumably others) and the 300mm BM-30 Smerch, the latter is truly impressive and can really bring the pain via DPICM, thermobaric and SFW (Bazalt), among others, delivered as much as 90km deep. And did I mention, Smerch can self-deploy its own targeting drone? I believe this vid will prove eye-opening for any not familiar with the BM-30. You don't need any Russian language skill to understand it.

How the Russians can rocket deliver a UAV, but be almost 20 years behind in the UAV category, I don't know.

Defense Industry Daily

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/israel-and-russia-in-uav-deal-05459/

Wired

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/russian-drones/

As for Excalibur-type weapons, I've not heard of a Russian equivalent. The Russians do have GPS jammers and lots of other goodies designed to thwart or degrade PGM attacks.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stagler]

I highly recommend perusing this somewhat dated Russian Land Forces catalog from ROSBORONEXPORT, starting at page 41. See particularly pp 51-53: The Russians have in service, and are offering export versions of, laser guided shells for the 122mm gun, the 152mm gun, the 155mm gun (for foreign systems only), the 120mm mortar and the 240mm mortar.

http://www.military-today.com/russian_land_forces.pdf

The Russians have DPICM for the 122mm BM-21 Grad (presumably others) and the 300mm BM-30 Smerch, the latter is truly impressive and can really bring the pain via DPICM, thermobaric and SFW (Bazalt), among others, delivered as much as 90km deep. And did I mention, Smerch can self-deploy its own targeting drone? I believe this vid will prove eye-opening for any not familiar with the BM-30. You don't need any Russian language skill to understand it.

How the Russians can rocket deliver a UAV, but be almost 20 years behind in the UAV category, I don't know.

Defense Industry Daily

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/israel-and-russia-in-uav-deal-05459/

Wired

http://www.wired.com/2012/08/russian-drones/

As for Excalibur-type weapons, I've not heard of a Russian equivalent. The Russians do have GPS jammers and lots of other goodies designed to thwart or degrade PGM attacks.

Regards,

John Kettler

I think we will just see Krasnopol 152 and Kitilov 122 LG PGM for the Russian forces, for 2S19M2/ Akatsiya-M and D-30 respectively. Glosnass is fitted to 2S19M2 and allows for better fix and survey capability to direct fires more accurately, but reporting indicates that there is no GPS guided projectile in use.

Some Russian spotter teams will have laser designation capability I speculate, and only these will be able to utilise the Krasnopol and Kitilov, say the FOs of the reconnaisance company, but FOs attached to motor-rifle companies probably will not have this capability.

We will see BM-21 ingame but I doubt we will see BM-30, might be considered OP ha.

[kuri]

I'd like to see TOS-1, them thermobaric rockets.

[Saferight]

I'd like to see TOS-1, them thermobaric rockets.

That would be insane!

[akd]

I think we will just see Krasnopol 152 and Kitilov 122 LG PGM for the Russian forces, for 2S19M2/ Akatsiya-M and D-30 respectively. Glosnass is fitted to 2S19M2 and allows for better fix and survey capability to direct fires more accurately, but reporting indicates that there is no GPS guided projectile in use.

Some Russian spotter teams will have laser designation capability I speculate, and only these will be able to utilise the Krasnopol and Kitilov, say the FOs of the reconnaisance company, but FOs attached to motor-rifle companies probably will not have this capability.

We will see BM-21 ingame but I doubt we will see BM-30, might be considered OP ha.

Krasnopol-M for 152mm systems (also, Ukraine has domestic equivalent Kvitnik that was used in combat recently)

Kitolov-2M for 122mm systems

Kitolov-2 for 120mm gun-mortars (2S34, 2S9, etc.)

Gran for 120mm mortars

Glonass guided rounds are probably pretty far out.

[Lethaface]

I'd like to see TOS-1, them thermobaric rockets.

Not sure of the chances, since normal 'MLRS' were according to BFC out of scope for CMSF. An MLRS is a 'Grid Square Removal System' which obliterates squares of 1x1km. This is not a tactical weapon. However, since CM:BN features battleship bombardments I guess why not?

The TOS-1 is supposed to advance with tanks and infantry due to it's relative short range. So I would surely like to use them to attack fortified urban areas According to WIKI they are only in service with NBC defense troops.

[John Kettler]

Here's a great tutorial on the Krasnopol system. It is highly specific as to organization, how many rounds allocated and to which group, number of laser designators and where assigned, etc. the 200 rounds per 152mm SP battalion ought to give serious pause! Also, the list of munitions available in aggregate to Russian artillery and mortars (top before main Krasnopol piece) is disturbing.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/krasnopol.htm

Krasnopol video (11 minutes) from manufacturer KBP Tula. A real must see. Test footage, loading drills, live fire, animated how-it-works segments, lots of shell visuals, field use with various designators shown and much more. This would've been Cold War intel gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH0FeGwR1uM

Regards,

John Kettler

[Skwabie]

Yay! More things to make me wonder why the hell my IFV's are spontaneously exploding. It really is quite amazing how many men must not even know what hit them on the modern battlefield. Are these the rounds they like to hit the taliban IED teams with?

Not surprising since men have gotten pretty good at killing each other, faster and at longer ranges. Imagine what a future battle in outer space will be like. I think the ones depicted in tv and movies are all wrong where they merge together and engage in gunfights, wtf! The future concept of a long range weapon will probably be able to travel light years, not to mention detection ranges! So there you have your fleet. Bam you're discovered but you've no idea. Next minute, while drinking coffee in a chair, bam you're dead:eek:

Woot.... precision artillery? At least there's awareness of imminent danger!..

[sburke]

Not surprising since men have gotten pretty good at killing each other, faster and at longer ranges. Imagine what a future battle in outer space will be like. I think the ones depicted in tv and movies are all wrong where they merge together and engage in gunfights, wtf! The future concept of a long range weapon will probably be able to travel light years, not to mention detection ranges! So there you have your fleet. Bam you're discovered but you've no idea. Next minute, while drinking coffee in a chair, bam you're dead:eek:

Woot.... precision artillery? At least there's awareness of imminent danger!..

Hmm so maybe heart attacks and strokes are God having target practice on us? LOL damn that is almost a funny visual. Gary Larson with an even sicker mind.

Hmm maybe I should set my coffee down real ssslloowww and step away from the counter.

[agusto]

Not surprising since men have gotten pretty good at killing each other, faster and at longer ranges. Imagine what a future battle in outer space will be like. I think the ones depicted in tv and movies are all wrong where they merge together and engage in gunfights, wtf! The future concept of a long range weapon will probably be able to travel light years, not to mention detection ranges! So there you have your fleet. Bam you're discovered but you've no idea. Next minute, while drinking coffee in a chair, bam you're dead

Probably the weapon of choice in future space battles is going to be the laser. Why the laser? Without any cover or concealment and detection systems beeing capable of detecting incoming objects hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, the laser will be the only weapon that cant be defeated by active protection systems or CWIS like weapons. Any guided or unguided projectile or missile will be detected long before its impact and will destroyed far away from its target (for example, by a laser like the one mounted on the Boeing YAL-1). Laser, on the other hand, will be noticed by the target only at very the moments it hits - nothing is faster than light, and laser is light.

I doubt though that battles between ships will take places a distances like lightyears. A laser that is fired at a target that is 1 lightyear away will take exactely 1 year until it hits its target, quite a long time for the target to maneuver away from the predicted aimpoint.

Anyways, i like space combat in Battlestar Galactica the way it is - at super close range and personal, with space fighter pilots literally beeing able to see the white in the eyes of their oponents.

[Skwabie]

Anyways, i like space combat in Battlestar Galactica the way it is - at super close range and personal, with space fighter pilots literally beeing able to see the white in the eyes of their oponents.

Well can't argue with that. BSG is awesome.

[c3k]

Bah. Lasers can be deflected by gravity. FTL? Sure, just drop into a different brane then pop back in. Better yet, go to a previous branch and step on your enemy when they are a pile of primordial goo.

[sburke]

Probably the weapon of choice in future space battles is going to be the laser. Why the laser? Without any cover or concealment and detection systems beeing capable of detecting incoming objects hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, the laser will be the only weapon that cant be defeated by active protection systems or CWIS like weapons. Any guided or unguided projectile or missile will be detected long before its impact and will destroyed far away from its target (for example, by a laser like the one mounted on the Boeing YAL-1). Laser, on the other hand, will be noticed by the target only at very the moments it hits - nothing is faster than light, and laser is light.

I doubt though that battles between ships will take places a distances like lightyears. A laser that is fired at a target that is 1 lightyear away will take exactely 1 year until it hits its target, quite a long time for the target to maneuver away from the predicted aimpoint.

Anyways, i like space combat in Battlestar Galactica the way it is - at super close range and personal, with space fighter pilots literally beeing able to see the white in the eyes of their oponents.

Anything traveling near speed of light becomes as effective as a laser. CJ Cherryh does some interesting stuff on combat, FTL, gravity and just plain junk dragged in by ships that jump. Check out down below station or any of the books in the Alliance universe/company wars series or the Chanur series etc. The Chanur series has a lot more combat per se, but Downbelow station does get into the concerns a fixed station might have dealing with possible attack from FTL ships. It is all just a made up universe, but conceptually well done and consistent.

For example, a ship jumps into the gravity well of our sun dragging along a few big chunks of rock. Those are now traveling at near speed of light towards earth. Any detector has to spot it and react. Odds are you'd need some kind of outpost detection to spot the object further out, but then it has to transmit message or react to something moving near as fast as anything you can fire at it. Once it is past you it is too late, so either you have to see it coming and project something into it's path or physics are against you being able to do anything about it.

Ship to ship combat becomes less important than protecting physical places. Your ships have to have something to come home to. Much as I like BSG, I don't think they really thought out the mechanics of what "jumping" might mean. Cherryh on the other hand gets into the mechanics of gravity wells and vee. Great author if you are interested in Sci fi (her fantasy series are also really good, she has three particular series - one based more in Celtic culture/mythology, another in Russian and a third that crosses into Sci Fi). I have everything she has written and she is pretty prolific (some 60 books). It is rare to have someone who can write good technical sci fi with good plots and character development.

[Skwabie]

heh I must've opened a wormhole somewhere:D

[c3k]

Back on topic.

John Kettler: great link on Krasnopol. Thanks.

Ken

[Skwabie]

eh I wouldn't mind, all just waiting here for black sea and it still has a ways to come. So here's another theory I got, from a book. It considers the universe a patch of dark forest. In it are inhabitants. Obviously resources are limited. So who ever lights a fire and gets seen by others first is exterminated.

So earth accidentally sends out a very deep space communication signal. Which is received by some distant but relatively close sentient being. They in turn sends out an object towards earth. The object's sole purpose is collapsing earth from a 3D object into a 2D entity.

So the book entails stories of different characters in this final age of men. The whole thing takes process in hundreds years time, I think it takes decades just for the object to travel to earth and of course decades for the dark forest theory to be figured out. Men tried to build space stations around the planet and the moon but apparently to no avail, the only survivors being crews aboard the space fleet they managed to put together in time.

Very grim and bleak setting, none of that colonization, space trading and war conflicts stuff just extermination and survival.