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Raptorx7

Combat Mission and Steam

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Today Close Combat launched on Steam in one of the few rare times an in-depth tactical/strategic game made it onto such a widely used digital service. I honestly think that Combat Mission deserves a place there too, I know many of you guys say that having all these new guys flood the forums and not understand the game would damage what we have here. However, I think Steam is an amazing opportunity to get Combat Mission out too people who might not realize they would love a game like it and those who may just be curious.

I think that maybe something as simple as a demo being released on Steam (For Red Thunder most likely) would do wonders for not only just sales, but the community as a whole and growing it. This would attract idiots and those who would bash the game, but I say that is worth it.

I have said this before and I got mixed results, but I feel like it is definitely a discussion worth having every now and than.

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I have said this before and I got mixed results, but I feel like it is definitely a discussion worth having every now and than.

LOL why?

Here is what Steve has said before:

Yes. Unlike the average Steam user, we have seen contracts. They aren't to our liking. Therefore we aren't interested in being carried by Steam.

The problem with a lot of the comments here is there is an assumption that going with Steam would result in a net positive effect. Broader exposure, more diverse customer base, etc. etc. Guys... we're very clever game publishers. We've been doing this for 11 years and have outlived more companies than I can count. Don't you think we would have thought of these rather obvious possible positives? :D Seriously! So I think it would be wise to assume that we have:

1. Thought of all angles, including ones not mentioned here.

2. Seen the contract and assessed how the angles and the contract might work in our favor.

3. Taken into consideration things we've observed/read about how Steam works.

4. Still concluded that Steam isn't likely to result in a net positive outcome for us.

We will not be on Steam unless the equation changes so that we perceive a good chance of a net positive outcome. Customer requests for being on Steam, or against Steam, have zero impact on the equation. Therefore, asking us to be on Steam or to stay off Steam won't change or preserve the status quo.

Steve

To me it looks like Steve pays attention to what Steam is up to and he know what he thinks needs to change to make him happy. I say leave him to it.

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LOL why?

Here is what Steve has said before:

To me it looks like Steve pays attention to what Steam is up to and he know what he thinks needs to change to make him happy. I say leave him to it.

Ah well I guess that's that than really. Its a shame they can't find a beneficial way to put it on there.

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Ah well I guess that's that than really. Its a shame they can't find a beneficial way to put it on there.

Well, for the record, I passionately disagree. My own experience with Steam is not something I'd ever want to repeat.

Michael

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You want Steam?

Go boil some water. :rolleyes:

Isn't the argument against it is that it costs the company $$. BFC doesn't want to support the millionaires at Steam.

Heh, well I guess most distribution and advertisement methods cost money. Even these server are most likely not free for BFC. The question really comes down to if steam could offer enough bang for the buck and the way Steve put it it certainly seems like this is not the case for BFC. I do however readily argue that steam is very good at what it does and it absolutely dominates the game markets atm. So it can't be that bad deal for all the thousands of devs from indie projects to big companies that publish through it. However niche games are niche games and BFC has realized this quite well and acts accordingly.

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However niche games are niche games and BFC has realized this quite well and acts accordingly.

I'm not so sure that is true. Looking at the top sellers list on Steam right now. Close Combat - Gateway to Caen is number #6 at $34.79 a copy. Right now it is selling the 6th most copies of games on Steam. Steam has millions of users so this is no small feat.

Arma 3 has been a top seller a number of times as have other niche titles like Red Orchestra and a whole slew of indie titles that definitely aren't mainstream. I mean Papers Please has been a top seller a number of times and it is a border crossing simulator. You literally do paperwork.

Edit: I would be interested in seeing CM sales before and after a (theoretical) Steam release with all kinds of other data. \

Just throwing a number around, lets say that Steam takes 50% of every sale. Now the first question is does the increased exposure make it a net gain in income? 50 BFC site sales would be equivalent to 100 Steam sales, but as long as Steam brought in 100 + N (where n > 0) BFC would technically be making a gain. However, if you end up cannibalizing your BFC website sales then you would need even more Steam sales to make up for the difference in lost revenue, and I'm certain a number of the CM players who are gamers would purchase from Steam over BFC. I know I would as the current DRM makes a Steam version of CM a purely positive gain on my part.

Then you can do all kinds of fun things with sales.

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I have nothing against Steam, I do use it to buy games (though not for socializing), and I've never had a problem with it. With that said, I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of CM being sold on Steam, for what some may perceive as an "elitist" reason.

Despite some of the threads I've seen and participated in on these forums, I feel that CM players, as a whole, are more mature, knowledgeable about things WW2, and prone to enjoy slow paced tactical games that require a lot of thought and planning than your average Steam user. I can see CM being released on Steam and, after the Twitch crowd tries it for ten minutes, comments such as "OMGWTF!? CM suxxorz. I Zerg rushed and lost all my DooDZ. Where are the power ups!?!"

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I have nothing against Steam, I do use it to buy games (though not for socializing), and I've never had a problem with it. With that said, I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of CM being sold on Steam, for what some may perceive as an "elitist" reason.

Despite some of the threads I've seen and participated in on these forums, I feel that CM players, as a whole, are more mature, knowledgeable about things WW2, and prone to enjoy slow paced tactical games that require a lot of thought and planning than your average Steam user. I can see CM being released on Steam and, after the Twitch crowd tries it for ten minutes, comments such as "OMGWTF!? CM suxxorz. I Zerg rushed and lost all my DooDZ. Where are the power ups!?!"

My son talks like that. ^^^

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Despite some of the threads I've seen and participated in on these forums, I feel that CM players, as a whole, are more mature, knowledgeable about things WW2, and prone to enjoy slow paced tactical games that require a lot of thought and planning than your average Steam user. I can see CM being released on Steam and, after the Twitch crowd tries it for ten minutes, comments such as "OMGWTF!? CM suxxorz. I Zerg rushed and lost all my DooDZ. Where are the power ups!?!"

Which is just absurd. The people on this forum represent a tiny minority of CM players (they must unless BFC is surviving off less than 100 sold copies per game).

Last night Close Combat was in the top 10 best selling games on Steam. It is currently number 12. There is clearly a market for tactical wargames.

BFC probably has good reasons for keeping CM off Steam, but I sincerely hope it isn't because CM needs to be protected from the filthy casuals.

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You might be right, Pelican Pal. Probably most of the type of "doodspeak" people I am referring to have long since moved on to console gaming, if they ever played PC games at all. The Steam crowd may be far more mature than I imagine. As I said, I don't socialize there.

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Crusader Kings is regularly a best seller on Steam. The idea that Steam users are made up of millions of smack talking kids is patently absurd, especially as the number of other channels through which games are available these days has dwindled to a handful so for most PC users who have tastes beyond a couple of games Steam is almost unavoidable.

I could care less whether CM went on to Steam, if Battlefront feel they can't make money out of it then fair enough.

However as a user, it is streets ahead of the Battlefront channel (or Gamersgate or whoever) -

Install CM on however many devices I want (only one in use at a time).

I can buy the PC version of a game but install a Mac version on a Mac at no cost.

Automatic patches.

Have never had to contact support to get a "registry cleaning" exe to allow me to re-install a game.

Much higher download speeds.

Mods available on the Steam workshop.

Don't need to store license keys.

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One issue certainly is the DRM. The current DRM that BFC puts on would be verboten on Steam.

It wouldn't be that required if you change to an online only play style, but BFC also said that going from a license systems that anchors itself in your system like a virus to online only is something the player base doesn't want. Which is definitely true for many players on this forum. The average person who already uses Steam and might be a new CM customer will have a different view on the issue. Steam has offline licensing but it is less aggressive than what they have right now.

The whole DRM thing is more emotional than technical. Just trying to evaluate how much piracy you would maybe get from a softer Steam DRM, if it is, would be quite the handful and of course technical detail isn't available to answer that question.

Then you open the can of worms of how much more piracy in absolute terms you accept in exchange for more paying customers. Steve at least has stated clearly that it is zero. He has a real problem with people stealing his game, and he clearly stated that more revenue from more paying customers in exchange would not make good for that.

Personally I don't agree but that is nothing new.

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No matter what we say, BFC will ultimately decide how their game is distributed. They have obviously considered the pros and cons of Steam and rejected it, at least for now. That's fine with me. I'm old school enough that I'm not bothered by downloading and manually installing exe's. When I first started playing computer games, they came on 5 1/4" floppies, and there was no interwebz. ;-)

Their aggressive DRM is annoying, but I've come to accept it as a necessary evil, just like the copy protection schemes on those old floppies.

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i can tjust imagine all screaming and crying in steam forum if combat mission put to them sell list . they demanding them moneys back and chanse game to comppany of heroes because its other way too hard to them play . sou i realy hope we are not gona see combat mission serie in steam. i can personaly pay litle more and download game trought them web side because i know im gona get best ww2 simulator game.

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One issue certainly is the DRM. The current DRM that BFC puts on would be verboten on Steam.

It wouldn't be that required if you change to an online only play style, but BFC also said that going from a license systems that anchors itself in your system like a virus to online only is something the player base doesn't want. Which is definitely true for many players on this forum. The average person who already uses Steam and might be a new CM customer will have a different view on the issue. Steam has offline licensing but it is less aggressive than what they have right now.

The whole DRM thing is more emotional than technical. Just trying to evaluate how much piracy you would maybe get from a softer Steam DRM, if it is, would be quite the handful and of course technical detail isn't available to answer that question.

Then you open the can of worms of how much more piracy in absolute terms you accept in exchange for more paying customers. Steve at least has stated clearly that it is zero. He has a real problem with people stealing his game, and he clearly stated that more revenue from more paying customers in exchange would not make good for that.

Personally I don't agree but that is nothing new.

BFC would be able to sell two copies of the game. From the BFC site and Steam. The Steam version would use Steam DRM and the BFC version would use the current DRM. As far as I know the DRM is only on activation so there shouldn't be any problems playing with people who have different versions.

Personally I would love to have Steam DRM. BFC's whole download system is frankly pretty terrible compared to what is regularly offered anywhere else in gaming. I mean you have a limited number of downloads and can only download the game you paid $50ish dollars for a year. There are also a whole slew of weird issues that crop up that Steam doesn't have.

As far as piracy goes I would be incredibly surprised if it was an actual problem for Combat Mission. The game simply isn't popular enough to maintain any sort of presence on torrent sites or to get cracks out fast enough to provide any sort of real damage to sales.

This might be pushing it, but as far as I can find there are no copies of CM:FI or CM:RT on any torrent sites. While there are copies of CM:BN, CM:A, and CM:SF they are several patches behind where the official copy is and there are no modules hosted anywhere.

Edit: actually I'm not sure that the current DRM would be forbidden on Steam. Many games still launch with Securom attached to it and Steam DRM.

I also want to point out again that the newest Close Combat game, Gateway to Caen, is making money hand over fist. It is currently the 3rd top seller on Steam.

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one problem what i see is this , to days games are more like movies what play them self . sou you tjust watch what happend next and thats start make people litlebit dum. sou moust of this time gids dont want think too mutch and this game is more like adults game ho have time to play and indres to play still whit the other home works and sou on . sou thats why marketing area is mutch smaler and moust of steam users are gids or not adults ofcourse not all but moust of them.

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Once again I'll point out the Close Combat of all things is 3rd top seller on Steam. The idea that the Steam user base is too stupid for CM is bogus.

There are somewhere around 70 million active Steam users and over 3,000 games being sold on the service. That is an incredible number of people and games.

Games like Call of Duty and Arma 3 are being sold side by side. In fact Arma 3 is currently outselling the newest Call of Duty. At this very moment there are more people individually playing playing Arma 3, Civ 5, DayZ, War Thunder, and Europa Universalis IV than the newest Call of Duty.

If you look at top games by player count Arma 3 is #10. Europa Universalis IV is #21. Kerbal Space Program, a game literally about rocket science, has only 200 fewer players than Call of Duty: Ghosts, and there are more people playing a grand strategy game about the age of exploration than Call of Duty...

CM players are not some special bunch of more intelligent and more capable gamers. You have a this caricature of the average gamer that isn't true. You are not special.

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CM players are not some special bunch of more intelligent and more capable gamers. You have a this caricature of the average gamer that isn't true. You are not special.

SNAP!!

Oh, now you done it!

Yessss we are!

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