Mac 10.9.3, Powerbook, 36% hang

[Jammersix]

I have a Powerbook about three weeks old, Mac OS 10.9.3, and the Mac Combat Mission Shock Force Bundle.

On many of the user created scenarios, and on this setting for Quick Battles, the game tries to load, goes to 36%, and hangs.

I've let it sit for as long as thirty minutes by the clock.

The setting that hang it every time are:

Battle Type: Random

Battle Size: Large

Environment: Random

Attacker: U.S. Army

Branch: Mix

Type: Armor

Quality: Average

Max Fitness: Fit

Force Adjustment: No Change

Defender: German Army

Branch: Mix

Type: Heavy Infantry

Quality: Excellent

Max Fitness: Fit

Year: 2008

Month: July

Daylight: Random

Weather: Random

The other thing that generates the "36% bug" is re-starting a Quick Battle. That is, using a small or tiny battle, which usually loads okay, and then quitting it and starting another Quick Battle without re-starting the game.

Several excellent player created scenarios also generate the 36% bug, scenarios downloaded from here that used to run fine.

[grunt_GI]

So, my observation is similar. SOME user created stuff seems to work (The SEARCH FOR A GHOST and TF PANTHER CAMPAIGNS) but two or three of user scenarios I tried did not. My unscientific testing showed that some user scenarios smaller than 700K had the best chance of loading...anything larger than that crashed. Haven't tried any quick battles yet, but assume the same holds...large QB are likely to crash.

I am going to play with my graphics settings tonight some more (turn them down) to see what that does. I can live with less eye candy for a while if more stuff loads. Looking forward to Apple finally fixing this....

OR better yet CMBS.....

[grunt_GI]

So, more weirdness...my QB is all FUBAR. I can't launch any battle Medium or larger (it dumps me back to the main menu)..on Tiny or Small it launches about 50%...

SIGHHH, I guess I will play whatever works...I am really looking forward to a real OS X upgrade that will fix this.

[Jammersix]

I'm not convinced it's Apple's problem.

Apple sets the OS, it's up to developers to adapt.

I'd like to see a patch for Combat Mission.

[Jammersix]

I've adjusted all settings to the lowest graphics (meaning fastest) settings, and it hangs at 36% on anything with a large force.

I've downloaded and installed a fresh installation of CBSF, I've restarted.

The 36% hang continues to be present.

[Buzz]

Hi Jammersix,

36% hang is not a 'settings' problem as far as I can discern. It is related to Mac OS 10.9.3. I have read several reports of profesioanls having their business crippled with Apple's latest "update". As frustrating as it is for CM customers I don't make my living off of playing CM. I am sure Battlefront is aware of Apple's problems and are just as past ready for Apple to fix the OS graphic issues.

Apple should come out with 10.9.4 next week at WWDC 2014. They may show off the new OS10 as well.

As for CMSF Mac Bundle... I suspect this will require Apple getting their driver issues corrected in whatever updates they provide. I too hope it is soon as CMSF has plenty of game play in the product IMO. Chris ND is working on bringing CMSF into v3.0 at some future time as well. CMBS v3.0 could be out late summer.

I have faith in getting Mac CMx2 related games back to fully functioning ... not so much with Aplle's update... as with CM v3.0 update from BFC. CMRT is v 3.0 and works great on my hackintosh despite Apple's 10.9.3 "sandwich".

I know this does not fix CMSF now but it may help avoid more added frustration of attempting to fix Apple's Mac OS 10.9.3 graphic issues in your new Mac.

Best of luck.. from the evo hackintosh convert

[Jammersix]

I don't have any problems with any other program, including other games.

Even online games, EVE, WoW, everyone except CM seem to have taken this OS in stride.

Your theory would have a lot more weight if it hadn't happened so many times before, to Combat Mission, and only Combat Mission.

[grunt_GI]

Well, clearly the best thing for everyone would be to just bring all the CM games up to the 3.0 engine. However, I know that is easier said than done. I have chugged through more CMSF campaigns and scenarios. For the "most" part the US Army, USMC stuff loads the best. Some of the British stuff loads and I have have had minimal luck loading ANY NATO scenarios or campaigns...(kinda like real life, the Canadian campaign loads, but the Dutch and German do not). What I am more irritated by is that even the basic QB functionality appears to be gone....zip, nada. Although QB in CMSF were hit or miss anyway with the bizarre unit purchases the AI made, it would have been nice to have some functionality. I was hoping to try some basic scenario construction, but figure what's the point if mine won't load.

I still have not gotten ANY user made scenarios to load. Will keep trying.

While I also wish BFC would fix this independent of what Apple does since I figure they will be most interested in solving it, I also know that Apple has kinda screwed them over in the past with graphics issues.

Silver lining I guess, if CMBS is based on 3.0 engine, then there should be no hiccups with it.

Not much of a silver lining, I know, but a little one.

[Guest]

I don't have any problems with any other program, including other games.

Even online games, EVE, WoW, everyone except CM seem to have taken this OS in stride.

Your theory would have a lot more weight if it hadn't happened so many times before, to Combat Mission, and only Combat Mission.

We use a piece of OpenGL that a lot of folks probably don't, and we use it hard. It should work; it's part of the core OpenGL specification. Apple broke it. I'm not sure what the "theory" in question is supposed to be, but I know precisely what's broken, and I know precisely who broke it and when, and in neither case is it anything remotely like our fault.

So: Apple broke a core piece of OpenGL, apparently didn't test for it, and shipped it. They've known about it since January, when I first reported it, and have released at least a couple dozen OS seeds since then, so apparently they have no immediate plans to fix it. We created a workaround for the issue as soon as we discovered it, and will be shipping it in every game we release a patch for, until it's no longer needed.

Which party is the problem again?

[grunt_GI]

We use a piece of OpenGL that a lot of folks probably don't, and we use it hard. It should work; it's part of the core OpenGL specification. Apple broke it. I'm not sure what the "theory" in question is supposed to be, but I know precisely what's broken, and I know precisely who broke it and when, and in neither case is it anything remotely like our fault.

So: Apple broke a core piece of OpenGL, apparently didn't test for it, and shipped it. They've known about it since January, when I first reported it, and have released at least a couple dozen OS seeds since then, so apparently they have no immediate plans to fix it. We created a workaround for the issue as soon as we discovered it, and will be shipping it in every game we release a patch for, until it's no longer needed.

Which party is the problem again?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SO, does this mean that we might see a patch for CMSF?

I was hoping you guys would take the initiative and fix it...maybe with a HOTFIX...I am really eager to try the Wanat scenario..and the Twilight 2K campaign

That would be awesome...

[Buzz]

Thanks for clarification of facts Phil.

Apple was warned since January! I am not surprised Apple broke a core piece of OpenGL and shipped it

Mac CMx2 games and CMSF Mac bundle loading and graphics worked fine in 10.9.1. OSX Mavericks 10.9.2 came out to plug the huge security hole in 10.9.1 in late February 2014. CMX2 and CMSF Mac were crippled by 10.9.2 with the 36% loading crash. 10.9.3 fixed much of the problem in my older stock macs but not the uber power hackintosh.

04/01/14 from Phil.... "...The problem should be resolved in Red Thunder, because I've put in an explicit workaround. I'm also working with Apple's techs to try and help them reproduce the problem on their end, so they can fix the drivers. It's pretty esoteric."

You fixed it fine for CMRT Phil Mac looks and plays great on my hackintosh!

Phil "..We created a workaround for the issue as soon as we discovered it, and will be shipping it in every game we release a patch for, until it's no longer needed...."

Patch is good news for BFC consumers. Thank you for being responsive, fixing what Apple broke, and doing good by all your Mac customers.

[Jammersix]

Of course it's not your fault.

It wasn't your fault any of the other times, either, going back to Combat Mission v. 1.0.

It's never been your fault, and never will. I'm just glad that until this time, you've been able to patch all of Apple's mistakes.

Whenever I mention the history of crashes your product has, I'll make the point as strenuously as I can that you told me that none of it was your fault.

[grunt_GI]

So, Phil/Buzz,

Have either of you been able to test the 10.9.4 beta or the 10.10 beta to see what happens with the 36% issue?

I am neither tech savvy or brave enough to do beta testing, but hopeful that one of those will fix the problem.

In the meantime, I figure at least 10-12 scenarios load in CMSF and 3-4 campaigns, more than enough for my computer ADHD and ability to carve 45 minutes out of my day...so that should last me for a few more months.

OR, if need be, I would be happy to test a hotfix for CMSF if you need one. ")

I feel brave enough for that.

Just sayin'

[Buzz]

I do not have the 10.9.4 beta or the 10.10 beta. I did read....

http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,8479.0.html

"So far, E9 build has slightly updated (very very very minimum) amd drivers, and no update for nvidia drivers. Nothing changed here."

I am running GTX 760 so... looks like typical Apple shuffle along ... nothing to look at here... for a few months .. or maybe Fall-ish when 10.10 arrives.

I understand reluctance to beta ...especially running my EVO Hackintosh... Lots of risk and the reward could be hours of PIA headaches.

GruntGI, Do you have CMRT Mac?

If not I can vouch that it runs and looks awesome on my EVO Hackintosh! If you need the CMRT fix... this will sooth the monkey

[grunt_GI]

Hi Buzz...I took the PLUNGE and bought CMSF, the CMBN combo pack with all the goodies and CMRT. Had a blast last night finishing the tutorial on CMBN and giving a QB a test drive. It was awesome. CMRT is next....Although the CMSF thing is a tad annoying, what really bugs me is no QB, as my attention span is short (as is my free time these days) so I love a 45 minute game.

However, I have plenty of CM goodness and this weekend will have the time to drive around the CMRT tutorial and try that QB system.

I am confident when push comes to shove CMSF will get fixed, hopefully with the 3.0 engine (with new QB!!!!) and CMSF will be like a whole new game. In the mean time that Garden of the Iron Cross upload is starting to whisper my name.

[Buzz]

Hi grunt_GI,

"I took the PLUNGE and bought CMSF, the CMBN combo pack with all the goodies and CMRT."

Good Soldier! I can relate to short free time for sure. 3.0 engine will be like a whole new game. I was a slow addopter of CMRT Mac based on Apple's fux up but I am so happy I purchased CMRT Mac! 3.0 engine for CMBN & CMFI will tilt the tables and CMBS is "Fall-ish" but in a good way

[grunt_GI]

Heh, good soldier indeed!

I waited a long time for a new iMac...figured I would git-er-done and keep BFC in beer money for a while...really looking forward to CMBS.

So is CMFI better, different or both from CMBN? The chance to replay Arnhem was just too much to pass up. WW 2 airborne history is a particular interest for me.

It was a toss up between CMFI and CMRT. But In the end King Tiger tanks and the prospect of huge urban battles won out..

What is your opinion of CMFI?

[Buzz]

CMBS v3.0 is gonna be spectacular for Modern players! I am ready to ride this horsey for sure.

I did pre order for CMFI as I am interested in the region having traveled there and have family that fought there in WWII. Happy I got it and played the heck out of it. Gustav Line added a ton of play quaility. I suspect v3.0 will add even more fun. In terms of community interest CMFI/GL may not be as popular ? but it is a great range of terrain, units and entirely different look vs CMBN.

CMRT is already v3.0 (plays great) so kinda diffucult to compare. CMRT Mac works fully on my Hackintosh and CMFI/GL is great but .... waiting for the specific patch to bypass Apple’s graphic screw up.

[Jammersix]

waiting for the specific patch to bypass Apple’s graphic screw up.

Good luck with that. There's at least one attitude in the way, and we have to wait for that to adjust to reality.

Back In The Day, we had to wait for a completely new game, because the developer said that he wasn't even going to continue developing CM on the Mac.

That was "Apple's fault", too.

[Buzz]

Apple's “fault" can be debated. Not my job nor my focus. I don't making my living playing CM. Some video professionals who do make their living are just as hopeful that Apple, not BFC, fix Apple’s graphic screw up in 10.9.3.

------

Heh, good soldier, Re; CMFI.... Check out...

Combat Mission: Fortress Italy

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=295&Itemid=509

Gustav Line - Welcome to Mainland Italy!

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=303&Itemid=521

[Collingwood]

Patch is good news for BFC consumers. Thank you for being responsive, fixing what Apple broke, and doing good by all your Mac customers.

Seconded. And thanks for the explanation Phil.

[grunt_GI]

From Appleinsider yesterday:

"The latest OS X 10.9.4 Mavericks build 13E16 comes two weeks after the first beta was released at the end of May.

Mirroring the OS X 10.9.3 betas, Apple asks developers to focus on Graphics Drivers and Safari, but adds in extra areas of interest in Bluetooth, Audio Drivers, Finder and the App Store."

Hopefully they paid attention to your input on OpenGL...or as we used to say in my squadron "The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Would be great if they could finally fix this problem.

[Buzz]

Yes fixing the broken OpenGL in 10.9.3 would be great. Earlier this week I read in one of the Mac / hackintosh forums that 10.9.4 beta had no real graphic improvements. The poster suspected 10.10 would be where Apple would focus their resources on graphics.

"The Burning Basis Vector" was an opnion post suggesting OpenGL Is Broken. Plenty of the article is beyond my limited graphics understanding but one of his arguments is "OpenGL driver quality is highly variable, and lags abysmally behind DirectX..... " .... a non-technical, and thus, ultimately irrelevant reason that can be solved by throwing more resources at the problem.

With the resources at hand in Apple's bank account a broken OpenGL in 10.9.3 ... something they broke... should not have to wait till 10.10.

"The Apple beatings will continue until morale improves" or they fix OpenGL

[grunt_GI]

So, here's a weird one...playing around with the QB again...found out that selecting a MEETING ENGAGMENT dumps you back to the menu...also choosing anything but TINY or SMALL battles hangs at 36%....BUT it appears that choosing TINY or SMALL battles for PROBE, ATTACK or ASSAULT seems to work...I tried with US Army, USMC, and Germans and it loaded just fine...

That OpenGL bug is so strangely random.....

Still no luck with most user created scenarios...

[Buzz]

I hear you grunt GI. Apple's hangs at 36% will be fixed some day. I am resigned to playing what I can because my fixating on what is broken and beyond my ability to fix is futile till Apple fixes what they broke.