Can somebody answer some questions on Information Sharing?

[Pewpewchewchew]

With the coming of Red Thunder I feel like information sharing is more vital than ever considering the tank spotting changes and soviet morale. I've tried searching for these answers but most of what comes up is either vague or from the CMx1 engine or the line of modern games.

1. Information is shared by both location and command, correct?

2. When information is passed through command, how does it flow up and down the ladder? I'm under the impression that it goes all the way to the top then is sent back down. So if this is the case then how does the game handle multiple battalions in QB or cut-off companies in an battalion. Does any information sharing come about when say I combine a battalion of tanks and an infantry battalion in QB?

3. Similarly, if the battalion HQ is killed, do all of the companies under it stop communicating with each other even when the company HQs are in range of one another?

4. Can information be relayed from squad to squad to squad rather than HQs? In theory if I span the width of a map with infantry, could spotting information be carried from one end to another without any command links, just infantry squads adjacent to one another?

Edit:

5. More so about C2, I see conflicting answers about what the green lights mean for C2 links. If a squad shows that the C2 link for company and battalion is green but not for platoon then that would mean that the squad is connected to company and above but not the platoon HQ correct? Or does it say that the platoon HQ is in C2 with company and battalion and therefore the squad is out of the loop with everything due to it's lack of connection with platoon HQ?

[Bulletpoint]

I'd love to know the answers to all this myself.. Will keep an eye on this thread.

[Vanir Ausf B]

1. Information is shared by both location and command, correct?

I am not sure what "by location" means. If you're asking if units in close physical proximity can share information outside of the command structure the answer is yes.

2. When information is passed through command, how does it flow up and down the ladder? I'm under the impression that it goes all the way to the top then is sent back down. So if this is the case then how does the game handle multiple battalions in QB or cut-off companies in an battalion. Does any information sharing come about when say I combine a battalion of tanks and an infantry battalion in QB?

Information does not necessarily have to go all the way up to the highest HQ, just to the highest HQ that is superior to both units. So a platoon HQ can share information with all the units in that platoon without having to send it up to the company first. To the best of my knowledge, units with no common superior HQ, such as units in different battalions, cannot share information except through physical proximity.

3. Similarly, if the battalion HQ is killed, do all of the companies under it stop communicating with each other even when the company HQs are in range of one another?

What do you mean by "in range"? Information sharing through physical proximity never requires an HQ. But the range is fairly short. IIRC it is about 4 action spots.

4. Can information be relayed from squad to squad to squad rather than HQs? In theory if I span the width of a map with infantry, could spotting information be carried from one end to another without any command links, just infantry squads adjacent to one another?

Yes.

5. More so about C2, I see conflicting answers about what the green lights mean for C2 links. If a squad shows that the C2 link for company and battalion is green but not for platoon then that would mean that the squad is connected to company and above but not the platoon HQ correct? Or does it say that the platoon HQ is in C2 with company and battalion and therefore the squad is out of the loop with everything due to it's lack of connection with platoon HQ?

I think the latter, but I am not sure. IIRC the way that section of the UI works may have been changed in CMRT from previous games.

[aleader]

And what I still don't understand after all this time is what is the in-game effect of a loss of C2 with your Company/Btn HQ? Is there any reason to keep them in C2, other than maybe arty time on target? Surely morale is not affected so long as you are in C2 with your platoon HQ. IIRC in CMBB the higher level HQ's were able to 'gather up' broken units or those that had lost their platoon HQ, but that isn't the case in CMx2.

[sburke]

5. More so about C2, I see conflicting answers about what the green lights mean for C2 links. If a squad shows that the C2 link for company and battalion is green but not for platoon then that would mean that the squad is connected to company and above but not the platoon HQ correct? Or does it say that the platoon HQ is in C2 with company and battalion and therefore the squad is out of the loop with everything due to it's lack of connection with platoon HQ?

From the manual, hope this helps a bit.

What this means in game terms is that units can effectively only trace command-

and-control to their immediately-superior HQs.

Higher HQs may fulfill this role only to a limited extent. If a squad or team is out

of contact with its immediate superior (usually a platoon HQ) then its company

or battalion HQ may provide voice and close visual contact, but not radio or distant-

visual contact. This simulates that a higher HQ can’t babysit a large number

of units more than one level lower in the organization, and it means that higher

HQs can’t be used in a gamey way to make platoon HQs unnecessary, but they

can step in and provide command-and-control in a limited radius in emergency

situations.

Regarding the green light, I suspect it does not mean the unit has comms with higher levels as you'd suggested in your 2nd scenario. The comm link showing visual or audible link will show if you have C2 to a superior HQ, but I believe the comm link indicator is an overview of how the comm nets are functioning that affect that squad. An easy way to check is to set up units in a test scenario and move them around to see how the status indicators work. hmm sounds like an interesting way to spend a sunday afternoon with a beer. I'll try some tests and post what I find.

[Vanir Ausf B]

IIRC in CMBB the higher level HQ's were able to 'gather up' broken units or those that had lost their platoon HQ, but that isn't the case in CMx2.

They can, with some limitations. See the post above. But it is true that platoon HQs are the ones that really matter, and the raison d'être for the company and battalion HQs is to step in for the platoon HQs when they get whacked.

Arty response times are not affected by C2.

[sburke]

too early for beer, but coffee is almost as good.

Okay it seems we are correct, the buttons reflect the overall C2 condition of the parent unit, the icons indicate the actual command status of the unit in question.

The squad is in audible range of it's platoon HQ, but cannot see them (terrain is woods, it is also set up turn. I think once I'd actually proceeded with the turn they would also get visual contact.)

Here is a squad with C2. All buttons indicate the parent organizations are good.

This is it's platoon HQ with a radio link to company

Here is the 3rd squad of the same platoon in a building complex with the BN HQ

It has an audible link to BN, but no link to it's platoon. The buttons indicate that it has no C2 to it's HQ, but it's platoon and Company HQ are good.

This is a squad adjacent to another Platoon HQ. It has no C2 to it's own platoon and the other platoon HQ is unable to provide a command link. It is not a higher level in this unit's chain of command. Note it's buttons indicate the same overall status as the unit adjacent to BN HQ, but this unit has no audible or visual C2 indicator.

[Bulletpoint]

Two important things I just learned reading this thread after a year of playing the game ignorant of it:

Units share info locally. So if you bring a weapons company HMG and sit it next to an infantry squad from another company, they will share spotting info. Very useful if that's true

Company HQ can be used to command squads who lost their platoon leaders. I always just kept the higher level command sitting back and never participating, but I guess if your company HQ dies your whole company suffers some penalty?

[Vanir Ausf B]

but I guess if your company HQ dies your whole company suffers some penalty?

Other than not getting information from other companies, no.

[AlexUK]

I had always assumed that you got some additional (small) bonus if you preserved squad - platoon - company (I.e. If the company hq dies/ out of contact you lose a bonus) looks like I was wrong.

[aleader]

Other than not getting information from other companies, no.

So, if I had an 'H Company' HQ sitting beside the 'F Company' HQ they would share the spotting info from their respective platoon HQs (assuming all have C2 to one another)? If this is true, it would finally indicate a use for these HQs in game. If not, I still don't understand their usefulness, other than to be there for realism sake. In real life, these higher level HQs would report above (to me in this case) and the situation could be commanded accordingly. This is the role I see them playing (i.e passing spotting info up to me, the player).

[Vanir Ausf B]

If this is true, it would finally indicate a use for these HQs in game.

They do that, so in that respect their usefulness is a function of the usefulness of the information they pass. In my experience it is rarely of any consequence for infantry units, but is more likely to be useful to formations of AFVs.

Keep in mind that HQs don't pass information up to you, everyone passes information up to you, because you are the leader of every unit on your side at once.

[sburke]

So, if I had an 'H Company' HQ sitting beside the 'F Company' HQ they would share the spotting info from their respective platoon HQs (assuming all have C2 to one another)? If this is true, it would finally indicate a use for these HQs in game. If not, I still don't understand their usefulness, other than to be there for realism sake. In real life, these higher level HQs would report above (to me in this case) and the situation could be commanded accordingly. This is the role I see them playing (i.e passing spotting info up to me, the player).

Also don't forget they do have the ability to step in and support a platoon in the event the platoon HQ is lost. They just have to be in audible range, That means you are either using that platoon in reserve or your company HQ is getting close to the firing line. The company HQ primary function is to coordinate the assets to allow the platoon elements to fight the battle. Use them to call in arty support from a nice safe distance so your platoon HQs units can stay in proximity to their squads to keep them in the fight.

Putting your company HQs together is just asking to have an arty strike decapitate two companies. Let them coordinate through BN like they are supposed to.

[aleader]

Keep in mind that HQs don't pass information up to you, everyone passes information up to you, because you are the leader of every unit on your side at once.

That was the gist of my post...I'm the supreme commander...everyone answers to me If they're not providing me with something additional to the platoon HQs, they're not much use, other than the ability to replace a platoon HQ I suppose. I'm assuming though that I would be able to see 'more' units and/or have better info on spotted units if my company HQ is in C2 with the platoon HQs.

[aleader]

Use them to call in arty support from a nice safe distance so your platoon HQs units can stay in proximity to their squads to keep them in the fight.

Putting your company HQs together is just asking to have an arty strike decapitate two companies. Let them coordinate through BN like they are supposed to.

That is how I often use them (for arty), although I find that an XO team does an equally good job (same delay, good accuracy). I generally don't put the HQs together but would like to know if info is shared between the two if you did put them together. Anyone know?

[Bulletpoint]

I'm assuming though that I would be able to see 'more' units and/or have better info on spotted units if my company HQ is in C2 with the platoon HQs.

well, isn't that exactly what happens? Platoon A on the right flank spots something, that info goes from the squad to the platoon leader and then to your company HQ, then back down to Platoon B on the left flank?

[aleader]

well, isn't that exactly what happens? Platoon A on the right flank spots something, that info goes from the squad to the platoon leader and then to your company HQ, then back down to Platoon B on the left flank?

That kind of info wouldn't be useful unless they were all engaged with the same enemy at the same time. If you selected platoon B, they wouldn't 'see' what platoon A sees unless they had LOS.

I'm talking about the overall effect (on the game screen). Do I have more/better info overall because there's a company HQ in the mix? Can I see the full info for that AT gun because of the company HQ, or just a light contact?

[Apocal]

Don't have any answers for you, but I like your LPs.

[aleader]

Don't have any answers for you, but I like your LPs.

Forgive my internet forum retardation , but what exactly is 'LPs'?

[Pewpewchewchew]

Also don't forget they do have the ability to step in and support a platoon in the event the platoon HQ is lost. They just have to be in audible range, That means you are either using that platoon in reserve or your company HQ is getting close to the firing line. The company HQ primary function is to coordinate the assets to allow the platoon elements to fight the battle. Use them to call in arty support from a nice safe distance so your platoon HQs units can stay in proximity to their squads to keep them in the fight.

Putting your company HQs together is just asking to have an arty strike decapitate two companies. Let them coordinate through BN like they are supposed to.

In theory, what could be done with two independent companies then? Would it work if you put some of the supporting units from the two groups next to each other, in audio range of one another and an HQ relaying information? So then one HQ in the first company can relay information to the squad, which then relays it to the squad in the other company, that squad passes it into it's command structure.

[Bulletpoint]

That kind of info wouldn't be useful unless they were all engaged with the same enemy at the same time. If you selected platoon B, they wouldn't 'see' what platoon A sees unless they had los

Sometimes they do have LOS but are too far away to spot what the other guys can see by being closer.. Then when they share info, they spot the enemy and open up. Maybe especially with armour, I'm not so good at pulling it off but in theory your infantry company's spotting info should end up with the tanks eventually if they are in C2.

However, about your question, no. You won't get more info about the AT gun because you have a company HQ. you will stil only get the best info that your most informed squad has seen so far.

[Apocal]

Forgive my internet forum retardation , but what exactly is 'LPs'?

Lets Play.

A narrated play through of a game, usually posted on YouTube.

[Bulletpoint]

Bonus question: How long does it take for spotting info to travel up from infantry and down to tank crews, if all are in C2?

[Vanir Ausf B]

I've never timed it. It varies. The experience level of the units affects it. With horizontal information sharing, distance is the primary factor.

[Peregrine]

Hi,

I play with some pretty full realism rules (search the forum for "command layer") and a big part of it is the information sharing model so I would be surprised if anyone has looked it this more closely at it than me while playing. That said Battlefront have never described timeframes for sharing to my knowledge so it is pretty vague and even with me watching pretty closing I have never really timed anything so some of what I say below is barely more than anecdotal.

I would not get too hung up on it unless you are playing with similar rules. Keeping guys in command speeds information sharing up but since the 2.? patch you want to keep guys in command so they don't break under fire.

1. Information is shared by both location and command, correct?

Yes. But units in the same formation tend to share information faster. The Kampfgruppe Engel campaign is a good example of this. The tanks and infantry are ALL part of the same formation and typically you see spotting contacts appear quite quickly between different units compared to say a squad of infantry and a tank from a separate unit nearby.

2. When information is passed through command, how does it flow up and down the ladder? I'm under the impression that it goes all the way to the top then is sent back down. So if this is the case then how does the game handle multiple battalions in QB or cut-off companies in an battalion. Does any information sharing come about when say I combine a battalion of tanks and an infantry battalion in QB?

As above. If you can put all the units under the same command structure they will share information better. If not they still share but not as fast and because they aren't in the same structure no radio contact so they need to be close to each other.

Haven't done enough QB to comment about it specifically.

3. Similarly, if the battalion HQ is killed, do all of the companies under it stop communicating with each other even when the company HQs are in range of one another?

No. If you have two companies on a map they will still share. It will just be slower and they need to be close as no battalion commander should mean no radio link to each other.

If I am playing a map where a company is reinforced by another company then I move the new company commander next to the commander already on the map. Typically after 1 turn he will have all the spotting contacts of the original then I move him on his way.

Also if your Battalion HQ is killed then the XO (or HQ support unit) should become the new HQ. This might be accompanied by an icon change as well (not sure as this is ultra rare for me). If you are not sure if this has occurred then select a subordinate unit then in the command area (red/green lights) click on the Battalion HQ and it will take you to whichever unit is in charge. With a change of command if possible you should buddy aid the killed HQ with the new to have a chance of retrieving the radio which will make staying in command easier.

4. Can information be relayed from squad to squad to squad rather than HQs? In theory if I span the width of a map with infantry, could spotting information be carried from one end to another without any command links, just infantry squads adjacent to one another?

Yes. But it will be slow and at the end of the day probably irrelevant. No sane plan should be relying on this to work.

5. More so about C2, I see conflicting answers about what the green lights mean for C2 links. If a squad shows that the C2 link for company and battalion is green but not for platoon then that would mean that the squad is connected to company and above but not the platoon HQ correct? Or does it say that the platoon HQ is in C2 with company and battalion and therefore the squad is out of the loop with everything due to it's lack of connection with platoon HQ?

If you select a SQD and it is red for it's HQ and green for company and battalion it means that the unit is out of contact with it's HQ but that HQ is in command with the company and that company is in command with battalion.

If you select a SQD and it is red for it's HQ BUT it has a voice, close visual or distant visual icon then this means that while it is out of command of it's immediate superior there is someone else (company or battalion or in the case of support units like mortars this could be many different HQs) in contact by the means shown in the picture.

ODD THINGS

Sometimes units won't share or update information. If a tank gets whacked and the crew bail these guys are terrible information sharers. I have seen situations where minutes later they have shared nothing at all. Units under fire or broken units are not good at sharing.

Spotting contacts often don't update. Example - a friendly infantry squad and a tank are near each other and the infantry spots a tank and shares this information with the friendly tank. But the spotted enemy tank is moving and later on the enemy tank is again spotted by the infantry but MUCH closer. The friendly tanks original distant spotting contact is never really updated to reflect the tank moving. Bit annoying as the newer contact should help the friendly tank spot but as it's only contact is quite distant I feel that sometimes it is missing out on a benefit that it should have. Not sure though. Maybe the distant icon helps with spotting no matter where the tank is.