Destynova Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hello. I am a long time Combat Mission player that started with Beyond Overlord and have played most of Battlefronts Combat Mission games. The one thing I really miss with the new engine is the lack of an in game unit encyclopedia. While I do have a good idea of what most of the units are, there are some times I really miss the ability to look the unit up in game. I know we get the PDF manual, and while it is nice, having to go out of game to look up an unit is pretty backwards considering you had a pretty nice unit screen in Beyond Overlord that told you everything you needed to know about a unit and that was back in 2000. I know you have made several upgrades to the engine and Red Thunder will be 3.0, but every time you have made en upgrade I have been disappointed that an in game unit encyclopedia has not been one of the upgrades. I therefor hope you could implement this for 4.0 when that comes out. I know most of the grognards who frequent this forum already have an encyclopedic knowledge of every WW2 tank and armored vehicle that was in use and can differentiate between different German half tracks by designation alone, but I was thinking of the more casual player. I think having an in game unit encyclopedia will make the game more accessible to people who like tactical and strategic games, but may not (yet) be hardcore. So therefore I think making such an encyclopedia would both make sense both financially by making it more accessible to new customers and increase the ease of use for you existing customers who you know will buy the game regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I miss the in game enter screen too. If I remember correctly the reason for it's inclusions was beta testers (maybe Fionn) who argued having a in game unit data sheet was helpful for even self identified gognards considering the profusion of units even in the original CMBO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It was explained to me awhile ago that Google makes in-game encyclopedias redundant. You want to know about Mosin Nagant rifles? Or WWII wooden bridges, or GAZ-MM trucks, or the floran and fauna of Poland? jump to desktop, Google it and you will instantly find more info than BFC could possibly compile into a single reference. The Game manual does come with a 'mini-encyclopedia', a brief description of every vehicle and weapon in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Right, Mikey, but you see: When googling these facts and statistics we could never be entirely sure that we´d gotten the correct data. Not every site on the internet is completely truthful and flawless, I am told. Whereas the info in an ingame encyclopedia would be beyond any doubt - as it would originate from BFC! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex1 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think the unit descriptions in the manual with the sillouettes are one of the things that stand out in thus game. Would love to see them in game. However they have to resize the interface first 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Googling also takes a LOT more time than the old CM1 "simply hit ENTER". Ease of gameplay and speed of gameplay, since CM2 is so much more complex and demanding than CM1, is a serious issue. I can play CM2 cos I played CM1 for over ten years. Without that "training" I am baffled how anyone other than grogs can tackle CM2. "User Friendliness" shouldn't be a dirty phrase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think it works quite well to have google or wikipedia running in the background and then do a search but what you don't get from doing this is the armour penetration values, the 'killing power' from different ranges and the blast values...(atleast the one used int the game) To be able to quikly COMPARE different AFVs, guns and weapons 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Quickly" is the key desirability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Google et al doesn't mean squat if what's used in the game is different. At least with CM1 the values given show what's being used in the game irrespective of whether the data is 100% accurate. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 but what you don't get from doing this is the armour penetration values, the 'killing power' from different ranges and the blast values...(atleast the one used int the game) To be able to quikly COMPARE different AFVs, guns and weapons This is the crux of the matter. All the google searches in the world aren't going to confirm what the data in game uses. Hence, why it would be good if BFC deliver on their previously stated intent many years ago that they plan to include an encyclopaedia with the game. Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Googling also takes a LOT more time than the old CM1 "simply hit ENTER". Not for BFC, it doesn't. What features are you prepared to forgo in order to get this encyclopedia? Flamethrowers? Tank riders? Hit decals? WeGo TCP/IP? All four? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I would also like the encyclopedia back.. loved it back in CMx1. But there is an outstanding mod that helps a lot in this departmend. Anyone who misses the encyclopedia really needs to check out Marco Bergmans fantastic alternate silhouettes (avvailable both for CMBN and CMFI). There you will get easy access to armor thickness and gun penetration data etc. I use the XC alternative and L O V E it! http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111940 And big thanks to Marco for putting it together, probably my all time favorit mod for CMx2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Not for BFC, it doesn't. What features are you prepared to forgo in order to get this encyclopedia? Flamethrowers? Tank riders? Hit decals? WeGo TCP/IP? All four? I would take it over all of those things except tank riders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destynova Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Not for BFC, it doesn't. What features are you prepared to forgo in order to get this encyclopedia? Flamethrowers? Tank riders? Hit decals? WeGo TCP/IP? All four? I do know that programing an encyclopedia will take time and therefor I was hoping they could make it for the next big update. But I do think you are laying it on a bit thick here as making an in game encyclopedia is not a feat that requires unparalleled programming skill and years of hard work. It is basically a database viewer and something they have made in the past with their 2 first Combat Mission games. Naturally I can see that an encyclopedia is not as an attractive bullet point to sell your game with as for example flamethrowers, tank riders and hit decals, but I still believe that BF should take the time to make an in game encyclopedia now. Making it now would make it so that their next generation of games would benefit from it. Thinking of it, once an in game encyclopedia is implemented BF could easily reuse some of the unit information that was in Beyond Overlord and Barbarossa to Berlin for both Beyond Normandie and Red Thunder. Its not as if the technical specifications of the WW2 tanks changed since 2000.. I know I for one would love to see the return of the in game encyclopedia and I am sure many others would too. I remember fondly looking at the ground pressure of my tanks and wondering if I could brave that bog to get my tank in a better position or if it would be stuck in the mud *edited for grammar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 ...there is an outstanding mod that helps a lot in this department. Anyone who misses the encyclopedia really needs to check out Marco Bergmans fantastic alternate silhouettes (avvailable both for CMBN and CMFI). There you will get easy access to armor thickness and gun penetration data etc. I use the XC alternative and L O V E it! http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=111940 And big thanks to Marco for putting it together, probably my all time favorite mod for CMx2. Couldn't agree more. Well, all-time favourite mod after Vein's flames. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It was explained to me awhile ago that Google makes in-game encyclopedias redundant. You want to know about Mosin Nagant rifles? Or WWII wooden bridges, or GAZ-MM trucks, or the floran and fauna of Poland? jump to desktop, Google it and you will instantly find more info than BFC could possibly compile into a single reference. The Game manual does come with a 'mini-encyclopedia', a brief description of every vehicle and weapon in the game. There are 2 problems with this way of thinking. 1: On some systems CM tends to go wonky if you alt-tab out (and if you want to look up troops while buying units or playing the game, that's the only way for me) 2: There is no way of knowing if the information you get is the information used in the game. Tere are many varying reports of tank armour thickness and whatnot on the internet these days. Sure, most of them are similar, but sometimes they do differ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 For what it's worth I think hit decals (and WEGO TCP/IP) could easily have been forgone. In a game like CM gameplay ease/efficiency is more important than more pretty graphics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 What features are you prepared to forgo in order to get this encyclopedia? Flamethrowers? Tank riders? Hit decals? WeGo TCP/IP? All four? Sorry Jon but this is rarely the choice that is faced by dev teams - I work in one - unless there is literally only one dev or no system in place to allow code to be branched and merged. Anyway back to the subject in hand, Command Modern Air Naval Ops handled this quite well by exposing the database to the game and allowing the community to contribute images and descriptions to go along with the raw data http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=1876 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Unit encyclopaedia back please 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Maybe this is something that could be out-sorced (uh, if thats the english word for it). Giving one of the beta testers or some other member of the CM-community acces to the data and have them do it (the entering of the data,that is) for a small fee... or free copies of a number of upcomming releases.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sorry Jon but this is rarely the choice that is faced by dev teams - I work in one - unless there is literally only one dev or no system in place to allow code to be branched and merged... Okay. Does it change if there are literally only TWO dev's? The Brain and Phil are it, as far as I know, for BFC. Ken, who'd love to have an in-game encyclopedia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I do think you are laying it on a bit thick here as making an in game encyclopedia is not a feat that requires unparalleled programming skill and years of hard work. It is basically a database viewer and something they have made in the past with their 2 first Combat Mission games. But this business is a resource balancing exercise. You have a certain number of programers and a certain number of artists, testers etc. You have a list of features the will take many many years. Someone (Steve) has to choose which things to work on. So when @JonS asks what feature you would have liked to have seen dropped that is *exactly* the kind of choice would have been made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 For what it's worth I think hit decals (and WEGO TCP/IP) could easily have been forgone. In a game like CM gameplay ease/efficiency is more important than more pretty graphics. Oh man, I disagree here. How does encyclopedic information that you have to wade through help with ease or efficiency? It might be interesting, or even valuable the odd time but efficient or easy - I think not. For the record I personally am looking forward to hit decals and would gladly go another release without the encyclopedia that I never read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think he is comparing the ease/efficiency of having the information in-game versus having to alt-tab out and do a google search. What is being referred to as an encyclopedia isn't really an encyclopedia in the sense that you would have to sit down and read through a thick tomb of information. It's just a detailed stats screen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 On a tangent, but relevant to this discussion - have you seen this tool ? http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113489 Not sure exactly how it works and so forth, but from the beta video linked it seems like it is already addressing some of the requested info ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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