Tea Time. Beta AAR discussion threat. Not for Bill or Elvis ;-)

[Childress]

You got that right. During the 1970s I spent nearly six years living in the Santa Cruz Mountains ...

Always suspected you were a hippie. Now's there's corroborating evidence.

[BLSTK]

Then again, when you're dumb as a stump you could use a little company, eh Michael?

[Michael Emrys]

Always suspected you were a hippie. Now's there's corroborating evidence.

You hardly needed corroborating evidence since I never denied it. I'll go even farther and declare that at heart I am still a hippie, although I doubt that you will understand what that means. People have formed a stereotyped idea of what a hippie is and that idea has totally inundated the popular mind. The truth is something else. But this is really not the place to go into that.

Michael

[Freyberg]

Hippies are excellent.

[Sergei]

Michael Emrys has hips? The more you know!

[Dadekster]

So it looks like Elvis came out on the losing end of the first encounter. Elvis is hoping it will at least result in shaping Bil's plans. However, I don't see that happening when I look in Bil's thread.

Steve

I don't either. That man is exceedingly efficient at analyzing the opposition he is facing and coming to the correct conclusion as to what that opposition was attempting to achieve with it. Someone needs to stand over him at his PC and just fire random shots over his head and maybe light something on fire as well. Give him some more stuff to think about while he plots his moves

[Childress]

You hardly needed corroborating evidence since I never denied it. I'll go even farther and declare that at heart I am still a hippie, although I doubt that you will understand what that means.

You can't have been a bona fide hippie unless you dropped acid. At least once. It's as simple as that. Share the visions of your funkiest trip with us. Trapped in a herd of stampeding psychedelic stegosaurs? We're not judgmental.

[John Kettler]

Elvis has achieved a military first--a Parthian grenade throw! Am pretty sure this is the earliest I've ever seen Bil take a casualty, never mind two. Now, if Elvis knocks off his ill-advised game of "Go hunt Ivan" and hunkers down somewhere (not within reach of Bil's OT-34!), he may find many opportunities to put Bil on the receiving end, without having to hope for grenades airborne and outbound even as their throwers are chewed up by PPSh 41 fire.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Childress]

John, your erudition never fails to astonish.

You wound, like Parthians, while you fly,

And kill with a retreating eye.

—Samuel Butler, An Heroical Epistle of Hudibras to His Lady (1678)[1]

[Battlefront.com]

I don't either. That man is exceedingly efficient at analyzing the opposition he is facing and coming to the correct conclusion as to what that opposition was attempting to achieve with it. Someone needs to stand over him at his PC and just fire random shots over his head and maybe light something on fire as well. Give him some more stuff to think about while he plots his moves

Fortunately, Elvis has made some assumptions about Bil's intentions that are pretty much spot on. Specifically, and most significantly, that Bil is planning to infiltrate through the woods instead of taking a risk on the big open spot. This means that, when boiled down, the two forces are going to hit head to head. That should be fun

Steve

[Michael Emrys]

You can't have been a bona fide hippie unless you dropped acid. At least once. It's as simple as that. Share the visions of your funkiest trip with us. Trapped in a herd of stampeding psychedelic stegosaurs? We're not judgmental.

I repeat, this thread is not the place for that. Open a thread in the General Forum and I will be happy to respond at whatever length is appropriate. But we owe the OP and other readers the courtesy of not dragging this thread off its due course.

Michael

[BLSTK]

Pretty rich coming from "Holier Than Thou" Emrys!

Must be Sunday.

[BLSTK]

I for one would love to see a thread from this self-important n'er-do-well. I'm sure the world is a better place for his mere existence.

[sburke]

You hardly needed corroborating evidence since I never denied it. I'll go even farther and declare that at heart I am still a hippie, although I doubt that you will understand what that means. People have formed a stereotyped idea of what a hippie is and that idea has totally inundated the popular mind. The truth is something else. But this is really not the place to go into that.

Michael

You are skating very close to violating the hippy code of silence. Just give the usual amused grin that says "you have no idea what I am thinking" and carry on. Don't make me report you.

[BLSTK]

Well played, sburke.

[BletchleyGeek]

Fortunately, Elvis has made some assumptions about Bil's intentions that are pretty much spot on. Specifically, and most significantly, that Bil is planning to infiltrate through the woods instead of taking a risk on the big open spot. This means that, when boiled down, the two forces are going to hit head to head. That should be fun

Hmmm, I think that somebody should speak Elvis into forgetting this thing of going head to head in the forest against Bil. Doing so negates the only advantage Elvis infantry has over Bil's: the range of his infantry weapons. And to be honest, I think Bil's been able to manage the skirmish in the forest much better than Elvis'. Recognizing when one is being outfought is important.

Regarding the advices about the defense: a static defense in woods is as good as the outcome of the first clash. Due to the very limited visibility, there's no real interdiction on enemy movement due to fire. It's all about being "lucky" when placing your forces and managing to cripple the enemy force by doing stuff like killing the command team of a platoon or something. More so when the objectives are well away from these forested areas - I can't see a good reason for Elvis to fight hard for that terrain.

He should be keeping a sizeable infantry force out of harms way to counterattack Bil's when the opportunity presents itself, rather than committing it by driblets against a force with a clear local superiority.

[Dadekster]

Agreed. Looking over the map again I think he (Elvis) is pretty much hosed as far as being able to keep Bill at arms reach due to the geography. The woods seem to go right up into the urban area negating the Germans longer reach advantage. If Elvis can find some good vantage spots he can give Bill a good bloody nose especially with some standoff support with his armor. I think Elvis may have the advantage when Bill presses for the other VP locations; however, this will require he preserve a good portion of his forces. This will get interesting quickly.

I also feel compelled to mention that the teasing or outright harassment going on in this thread is bordering on juvenile. Let it go guys and let's focus on the this AAR please or take it elsewhere.

[BletchleyGeek]

Agreed. Looking over the map again I think he (Elvis) is pretty much hosed as far as being able to keep Bill at arms reach due to the geography. The woods seem to go right up into the urban area negating the Germans longer reach advantage. If Elvis can find some good vantage spots he can give Bill a good bloody nose especially with some standoff support with his armor. I think Elvis may have the advantage when Bill presses for the other VP locations; however, this will require he preserve a good portion of his forces. This will get interesting quickly.

Precisely. There are three victory locations and the map offers a lot of depth for the defense, so Elvis can maneuver against Bil (and Elvis can also mount his infantry on his tanks, so I think he's more mobile that he might have realized). Keeping a combat patrol in contact with the enemy is good, indeed, but "keeping contact" doesn't mean that the aforementioned combat patrol needs "to engage and defeat" Bil's advance guard. In my opinion, the mission should be to keep track of Bil's movements. Just that.

I also feel compelled to mention that the teasing or outright harassment going on in this thread is bordering on juvenile. Let it go guys and let's focus on the this AAR please or take it elsewhere.

Let me second that.

[MikeyD]

One minor advantage Elvis has involves those Russian PPSh, ironically enough. If he can keep from getting killed for any length of time those tank riders are liable to rapidly exhaust their ammo supply. And there's no submachinegun ammo to acquire back at the tank. I may be grossly misinterpreting tank riders but they seem to be one trick ponies. Hop off the tank and wipe out all the suppressed enemy troops at close range. If the enemy isn't wiped out, or isn't suppressed, or isn't at close range the tank riders are basically caught with their pants down.

[Dadekster]

Yeah good point, he was mentioning that his ammo supply was getting eaten up pretty quickly just in that little skirmish. He chews through that too fast prior to getting into some MOUT he may be pulling the short end of the straw with some of his squads. Of course anytime you are running a defense on the hopes that your opponent simply runs out of ammo is probably not the greatest either.

[Baneman]

One minor advantage Elvis has involves those Russian PPSh, ironically enough. If he can keep from getting killed for any length of time those tank riders are liable to rapidly exhaust their ammo supply. And there's no submachinegun ammo to acquire back at the tank. I may be grossly misinterpreting tank riders but they seem to be one trick ponies. Hop off the tank and wipe out all the suppressed enemy troops at close range. If the enemy isn't wiped out, or isn't suppressed, or isn't at close range the tank riders are basically caught with their pants down.

But Bil did buy 4 trucks IIRC. So with a little time to reorganise, he can re-ammo his guys.

[Battlefront.com]

Guys, let's keep the constant stream of personal banter down to a minimum. Otherwise we're going to have an 80 page thread with only 10 posts on topic.

Thanks,

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Ammo supply is one of the natural limiting factors on battle length in real life. The attacker can do things to keep supply up, but it gets more and more complicated as the battle evolves. Casualties, exhaustion, hunger, confusion, and other factors are all amplified when you don't have adequate ammo. Soldiers know this. So if your troops are tired, hungry, and have 2 bullets to their names, you say "well... better take a break" *of* "time to send in the reinforcements".

MikeyD is correct about the tank riders. They are one trick ponies. The purpose of them was to be dropped right in the middle of the defenses, overwhelm and/or cause serious disruption, then sit tight to wait for the next phase of the battle. In fact, this was standard operating procedure for the Soviets in general. Which means that Elvis can do some pretty interesting things if he is able to survive the impact of the tank riders and the initial wave of standard infantry.

Steve

[Michael Emrys]

But Bil did buy 4 trucks IIRC. So with a little time to reorganise, he can re-ammo his guys.

Except that he has stated that there is no SMG ammo on the trucks. Hard cheese...

Michael

[SpeakEasy]

Bil is keenly aware of the status of his SMG troops' ammunition. As such he is taking precautions to avoid spending too much of it during these early phases of the battle.

However, I am sure he wishes those trucks had SMG ammunition. Just like his AA halftracks in the market garden beta AAR, he is cripple by the BETA build.