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Elvis

CMRT - BETA AAR - German Side

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... This battle could be similar to the account related by Udet about his squadron single-handedly holding back a Soviet counter-attack at Kursk.

...

You mean Rudel ?

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Well I would like to see soemthing like this:

I think I'm within your setup requirments '( 2500 Points 1 AAA 1Flamethrower)

1 Forward Observer

2 Ju 87 G Strafe

1 Panther G HQ

2 Hetzer (Perhaps just 1 for more infantry)

1 Straggler groupe

1 Company (-) with attached Flamethower

2 20mm Quads on truck.

In a formation like this we have a lot of the new toys, and it is more or less mobile.

The Ju 87 Gs seem to be pretty cheap, and perhabs those 37mm could immobelize some of your opnonents mobile assets early.

All heavy guns have wheels so you should be able to switch positions relativley easy.

Well Panther or not... you are fighting Bill I think a Panther is okay ^^

The weakpoint would be your infantry, but I think a lot of us are curiose about these straggler formations.

PS: I apologize for my bad spelling and grammar.

I had assembled a list last night and played in the purchase screen and it looked almost exactly like this. I would like some scores and mines. I'll toy with it today and post a purchase screenies before sending it to Bil.

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I picked the FO for the stukas, caus IIRC only Russian planes are freed from them correct?

Otherwise you don't need him, imho.

I wouldn't recommend mines. They aren't cheap, and you get to few to close down areas and can't garantie any effect on this map.

But just my opinion, do what you like and feel comfortable with.

Perhabs u can smuggle in a Nashorn for a Hetzer? But I wouldn't sacrefice your Panther for it. I belive you need one reliable and strong base. In my suggestion it's the Panther.

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@eniced73 Yep, by rule, each side will have at least one flamethrower.

I agree that finding the points for a Panther is a good approach. I'm a little worried about infantry depth. What's the headcount in the Straggler Group?

But again, it's all about the Hetzer. Your cute little Panzerjäger will smite the enemy!

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I picked the FO for the stukas, caus IIRC only Russian planes are freed from them correct?

Nope neither side has the ability to direct CAS in this game.

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I don't know if its too late to make suggestions, but here's what I would take:

-1x Ju-87D

-1x Off-Map 88mm Mortar Section

-Target Reference Point

-2x Foxholes

-1x AT Gun Platoon w/ PaK 40 75mm

-1x Panther

-1x Hetzer

-1x Dismounted Armored Panzergrenadier Company, including MGs and on-map mortars

-Quad 20mm Flak HT

-Infantry Flamethrower

This way, you can use the mortars and TRPs to deny Bil his beloved covered avenues of approach, while the Stuka is just a nasty surprise. The AT guns can cover open ground, while your infantry, supported by MG-42s and the flamethrower, hold the woods and BUAs. I suggest the PzG company due to the higher number of machine guns per squad. The Panther, Hetzer, and Flak track can act as a pretty potent "fire brigade" force. As much as I want to see a straggler company in action, this map seems like you'd need a strong infantry force. Hope this gave you some ideas!

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I'd caution against the flamethrower halftrack. Wouldn't want to find out the hard way that FW operators are just as vulnerable as MG gunners to enemy fire... Also, considering that Hanomags can be penetrated even by machine guns, that seems like a very fragile and probably expensive way to acquire a flamethrower. It would likely be unable to even enter the heavily wooded areas in which it would most useful. Just a thought.

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I can't agree with most of the recommendations I'm seeing, at least if you're trying to win (which I understand is not necessarily the goal). Looking at that map... the more infantry the better, preferably a type with short range firepower. Panthers and Stukas are extravagances you can't afford. Anti-tank mines only have to disable one tank to earn back your investment and the psychological effect alone is almost worth it.

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I agree on the Stuka, but those things aren't very expensive, at least as BfN is to go by. The Panther, on the other hand? I can see plenty of places where a very good tank can come in handy. It would probably be for the better to cut the Hetzer out and pick up some mines or some more infantry, but I love those little things to death... (Perhaps a bad choice of words)

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I think people want to see a Hetzer so I'm down with that. Otherwise I'd be temped to place some towed AT guns along the west-facing edge of the northeastern chunk of forest. From the screenshots Bil posted it looks like they'd have good LOS across the open fields north of the village.

Panthers are just too expensive for what I think will be a fight decided in the forest south of the village and the village itself.

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I think either mines or TRPs at that crossroads in the forest are a must-have. Maybe replace the Panther with some 88s? Those plus 75mms, a Hetzer, AT mines, and Panzerschrecks would be pretty formidable against armor.

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@ Vanir: Well, sure we could make recommendations for a most powerfull force to fight on this map, but I belive this is not the purpose of this battle. We want to see new stuff in action. Heavy Infantrie is also hard to pull of as I imagine that Bill could bring a lot more Infantrie, with perhaps more shortrange firepower. Too much Infantrie and you will get pretty immobile which could be the downfall of your defence on such a large map.

@lurrp: nice list and I see the concept but, imho a fixed defencive position on this map vs Bill is more or less suicide and could turn out similiar to the Fortress Italy AAR where he played Germans with an Elephant vs US. He is just the King of scouting and taking out fixed positions.

If possible try to lure him into a trap and counter attack where he doesn't suspect it.

Edit: as u guys posted while I was writing.

I can't agree on TRPs and AT guns. To be successfull your oponent has to do what you expect him to do, and you have to catch him by surprise. imho If you have room to maneuver, than u should use it. This gives you more flexibility over all.

I think c3k has a good aproach.... attack! ;)

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I think either mines or TRPs at that crossroads in the forest are a must-have. Maybe replace the Panther with some 88s? Those plus 75mms, a Hetzer, AT mines, and Panzerschrecks would be pretty formidable against armor.

I would prefer schrecks over towed guns or Panthers. 88s will be spotted quickly at the ranges afforded by the map. They would need to be 50mm to remain concealed until they fired, IMO. Or maybe 75mm Pak40 if they are in trenches, which provide a concealment bonus. But frankly, if the Soviets penetrate into the open field north of the village the outcome at that point will no longer be in doubt. Defense in-depth is hampered by the fact that there isn't much cover to the north.

A TRP at the crossroads would be good, if you have some mortars to go with it but TRPs aren't cheap either.

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Good points. In any case, I think most of Elvis' forces should be concentrated away from the edges and as deep into the woods and buildings as possible. No sense in letting Bil blast away from a distance! However, that open ground just seems perfect for a PaK ambush, especially with heavier 76 and 88mm guns. If Elvis can both neutralize a good portion of Bil's armor and draw his infantry into the closer terrain, he could inflict quite a bit of damage.

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@Vanir: Hadn't though about how easy bigger AT guns are to spot. I think with the points available, the fact that Elvis has to spend vital points on "flavor" elements (not that I disagree with that), and the terrain makes a large scale defense in depth unlikely. I do think AT guns will be more useful than armor, although I still think a Panther could come in handy at some point.

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Well a Panther is also the cheapest option to take out russian heavy armor like IS 1 IS 2 etc...

The problem with schrecks is, that you would have to get within 150m of the russian armor, and thus would have to surpress all covering russian infantrie.

It's possible, especialy in the woods and town, but not easy.

Elvis should defnitley bring some schreks but, not as primary at weapon.

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@ Vanir: Well, sure we could make recommendations for a most powerfull force to fight on this map, but I belive this is not the purpose of this battle. We want to see new stuff in action. Heavy Infantrie is also hard to pull of as I imagine that Bill could bring a lot more Infantrie, perhabs with more shortrange firepower. to much Infantrie and you will get pretty immobile which could be the downfall of your defence on such a large map.

I already acknowledged that winning isn't necessarily the goal. But if you just want to show off new stuff you don't need recommendations for that, IMO.

The infantry I recommenced -- Fusiliers -- are not particularly "heavy". They just tend to have more SMGs per squad than vanilla grenadiers.

I haven't seen the map dimensions listed, but it does not look like what I would consider to be a large map. The terrain and positioning of the objectives is going to mandate a forward-deployed defense. Those open fields to the north of the village are of marginal significance, IMO.

Of course, we haven't been told where the setup zones are, and that could change everything.

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Woah, I have no idea why that triple posted. Sorry about that.

So I originally asked if Fusiliers had more SMGs than PzG per squad, but it was triple posted. I went to delete one and it deleted all of them.

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