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CMRT - BETA AAR - Soviet Side


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Bil,

Na levo! In the liver! I love to see a plan come together, as yours surely did, but I noticed your tanks were shooting pretty accurately while on the move. Is this really firing on the move, or are we still looking at a representation of firing from the short halt, but it's not depicted in the visuals? Am not sure where we are on this, since you're running on CM 3.0 and my frame of reference is CM 2.12. Also, were the shots well short of the woods intentional?

Regards,

John Kettler

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Very odd. The hit text says penetration through the glacis place. I'm reasonably sure that neither 85mm APBC or APCR should be able to penetrate the Panther glacis plate unless the T-34 is at a significantly higher elevation.

The result was inevitable...

12940931415_1e9e1f25e0_b.jpg

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Hello Bill,

in your nice Deep Strike Video we can see Infantry shooting from Tanks.

I read some reports from a German Soldier wich Name was "Heinz Rehfeldt" on a Division called "Großdeutschland" wich was a Motorized Division where he was on the Mortar Teams and there he mentioned that the Riding Infantry of an "Hanomag" Halftrack was also shooting out of that Vehicle standing on the Bench in the back of the Halftrack to react quickly when there was Ambush.

Do you know if we see with tankriders/Halftrackriders for the Germans too? As it is right now for me the Halftracks (beside that MG supressing Fire and faster movement of Footsoldiers on Big Maps) are tactical not that valuable as they really was because they are very brittle.

Edit: And i think that those last Turns finally sealed the Deal for you. Well played so far!

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Congratulation Bil on comprehensively turning the tide and reporting with such flair. The vids are excellent as are the pics and text. I noticed watching the deep strike that tank 3 was slightly in echelon and the dust trail from tank 2 was acting as a smoke screen. Intentional or not (and no doubt intentional from you?) that was very neat. Many thanks. I am certainly looking forwards to this release :D

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John, they were definitely firing on the move as they closed on Gelb. Those short rounds were actually aimed at the objective and were wild misses.

I wondered about that the first time I saw it. Those puffs of smoke in the middle of the field I thought might have been mortar rounds as it wasn't immediately clear from the screenshots where they were coming from. It was only when I viewed the video (nice vid, BTW) that all became clear.

Michael

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Bil,

Shooting on the move like that is very cool and was done historically by the Russians, though generally more intimidating than effective. Bet it was fairly good for you because you were on flattish ground, minimizing the pitching effects on the cannon. Is this ability to fire on the move a CM 3.0 feature, as opposed to some previously used order incorporating a short halt-fire sequence?

TimoS.,

There's a piece of German war art in pen and ink showing a 251 roaring in, with MG and passengers and blazing away, plus several grenades flying toward the foe. That may sound crazy, but there's a combat report from our newly arrived GIs in North Africa. Seems DAK dropped in (a bunch of 251s, maybe other AFVs) for such a visit coming out of the sun at dusk and roaring in. Don't recall whether the attack caused any casualties, but it sure was a demonstration of who knew soldiering. One GI who saw this considered it a sort of "Welcome to the neighborhood."

Regards,

John Kettler

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Seems DAK dropped in (a bunch of 251s, maybe other AFVs) for such a visit coming out of the sun at dusk and roaring in.

You sure about that being in the evening? That would have put them coming in from the west (or perhaps more precisely the west-southwest), which would have been unusual.

Michael

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Michael Emrys,

What I recall of the account was quite clear; they attacked with the setting sun behind them. I understand your point, but that particular aspect of the story still stands out in my mind. I remember thinking how gutsy that move was, yet so in keeping with the flair and dash with which DAK operated.

Regards,

John Kettler

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One boo-boo he made (I think) is he drove the Hetzer straight into the treeline then used Face. What he should have done was maneuvered, using waypoints, the Hetzer into the trees already facing you. He would have presented a smaller target and his frontal armor. But instead he gave you a nice flank shot against a larger profile with weak armor.

Steve

That's assuming he knew Bil had thrown that 85mm right hook to start with; the Hetzer is facing the location of the other two vehicles of the Russian platoon which suggests Elvis knew they were near Gelb's wooded bit.

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You sure about that being in the evening? That would have put them coming in from the west (or perhaps more precisely the west-southwest), which would have been unusual.

Michael

FWIW: According to Niall Barr's book "Pendulum Of War: Three Battles at El Alamein" it was a common tactic of the DAK to attack out of the setting sun in order to blind enemy AT gunners.

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What I recall of the account was quite clear; they attacked with the setting sun behind them. I understand your point, but that particular aspect of the story still stands out in my mind. I remember thinking how gutsy that move was, yet so in keeping with the flair and dash with which DAK operated.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the move you described was impossible or did not happen. It is possible that the German force could in some situations have maneuvered around behind the Allied force, which would have placed them to the west. But it would have been a little unusual in Tunisia where they were more commonly attacking the US Army from the east. Attacks against Eighth Army in Tunisia were another matter as the lineup there would have been north to south with often an open flank to the west.

Michael

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FWIW: According to Niall Barr's book "Pendulum Of War: Three Battles at El Alamein" it was a common tactic of the DAK to attack out of the setting sun in order to blind enemy AT gunners.

Of course. It would have been the natural thing to do there since most of the time the Axis army was disposed to the west and the Allies to the east. In Tunisia and vis-a-vis the US army, the arrangement was the reverse. The Germans attacking in the morning would have had the sun behind them.

Michael

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I have offered my surrender to Bil. He has accepted. I the next turn we will both hit ceasefire so that you can have a better sense of our end game condition.

I wanted to post here first and thank Bil. You played a great game and took me to school. Thank you.

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