MikeyD Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I did see smoke at the barn when the flame hit in the video - not very dense though. Remember the blowing grass and leaves in earlier videos/picts. The battle seems to be taking place in a stiff wind. If the air was calm I'm sure you'd see the flames area enveloped in a dense black smoke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster88 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Cant wait for you to knock out your first German armor. Should be a morale booster for your Ruskies. You seem to have inflicted more infantry casualties on him but like you said it sometimes comes down to who has the last armor with HE rounds and machine gun ammo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Elvis is playing cat and mouse with his Panther.. (HAHAHA, get it?! ..sigh...).. anyway, note that it is moving around in very close proximity to my OT34, and it is buttoned.. I might have an opportunity here... the Hetzers (as far as I can tell) are still far in the background and moving up. My OT34 moved into a tucked in position next to the barn (do NOT let there be any tank hunter teams nearby!) and it fired up a building on Blau that had an enemy contact in it. My good ISU fired on the location where the enemy scout team was sitting.. I have no clue whether that team is still there or not.. but I wanted to let Elvis know that my ISUs still live, and are capable of hurting him. The wounded ISU remounted, and will start moving toward Blau next turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster88 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This is awesome Bil. If he gets any bolder with that panther you may have a good chance at knocking it out. I hope you didn't over extend that OT34 in an area unsecure by your own infantry. I love how more effective infantry seem to be at anti-tank measures in the newer CM's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It is hard to judge from the screenshots in the updates for the last two turns, but I'd say that your T-34 platoon has outflanked the Panther and probably the Hetzers as well. If that's the case, then you got a GOLDEN opportunity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Here is a translated German infantry training manual, issued by the War Department in 1943. Since the MG-34 is the listed LMG, the squad depicted is presumably the early war version. The wealth of detail extends down to how many MP-38/40 magazines the SL carries! http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/wwIIspec/number09.pdf Regards, John Kettler That translated book of author Fritz Kuehlwein (a tactics teacher at infantry training schools in the 1930ies) is not an official training manual (the HDV´s), but rather a summary of various and overworked for use by training personnell, who had to obtain these privately or through semi official channels. That translation obviously is from the 1940/41 issue, where some major changes derived from the experiences with the former (pre war) half squad system, that was abandoned right after the Polish campaign of 1939. The more rigid and established half squad (support and maneuver HS) system was found to be too unwieldly and too much dependent on well trained soldiers. Simplicity was improved thereafter as was responsibility of the squad leader to handle all of his squad as he sees fit under given circumstances. A greater focus then was also given on the squads whole firepower and flexibility of application. In the attack (example) the SL could decide to fight a particular enemy target (a machine gun maybe) either by employing all of the squads firepower, just the rifles, the LMG alone (under his direction), or just a single marksmen, in order to enable a maximum of the squads men to close with the enemy for the break in. Ammo tactics also plays its role. Same counts for easier maneuvering/controling of the whole squad during movements. AFAIK nothing substantially changed after 1940 (actually october/november 1939) settlement of regulations for inherent squad tactics anymore and figured sound enough for remainder of the war thereafter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 It is hard to judge from the screenshots in the updates for the last two turns, but I'd say that your T-34 platoon has outflanked the Panther and probably the Hetzers as well. If that's the case, then you got a GOLDEN opportunity. That did run through my mind Miquel. However, I want him concentrated on my forces at Blau so I can take Gelb without interference from his armor. Remember all along the attack on Blau was never intended to be a real attack.. it was intended as a distraction from my main attack, which is on Objective Gelb. I will take whatever Elvis gives me and I will try my damndest to hurt him as much as possible and I want that attack to feel real to him... but I will not get decisively engaged on Blau just yet. I think as long as I have three tanks in the vicinity of Blau he may just keep his armor in that area. I will not be bringing my T34/85s over to Blau just yet. They are just starting their deep strike on Gelb... when that is secure I will be free to use them to hunt enemy tanks and concentrate my full power against Blau. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Excellent use of the OMG! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That did run through my mind Miquel. However, I want him concentrated on my forces at Blau so I can take Gelb without interference from his armor. Remember all along the attack on Blau was never intended to be a real attack.. it was intended as a distraction from my main attack, which is on Objective Gelb. I will take whatever Elvis gives me and I will try my damndest to hurt him as much as possible and I want that attack to feel real to him... but I will not get decisively engaged on Blau just yet. I think as long as I have three tanks in the vicinity of Blau he may just keep his armor in that area. I will not be bringing my T34/85s over to Blau just yet. They are just starting their deep strike on Gelb... when that is secure I will be free to use them to hunt enemy tanks and concentrate my full power against Blau. So the idea is to use the ISU's and the OT as a holding force? That can work, since those ISU things have a surprising survivability. Yes, you're right there's no need to rush things and abort that OMG maneuver, which can probably completely dislocate John's armour, unless he gets wind - via sound contacts - of your deep strike. Are you taking any specific precaution to avoid that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Bil, do your troops have any hand held antitank weapons (molotovs, RPG's etc)? The German armour will find it hard to contest any of the objectives, unless it has infantry protection, and you seem to be steadily whittling those away. Shame you didn't bring any ATR's, it would have been nice to see how they performed, given the more attrition-based damage model. I once had 100 ATR's firing at a solitary Panther in CMBB, to no effect, but watching the shower of ricochets became almost hypnotic! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 5th Company Elvis's platoon (and I have confirmed that it is indeed a full platoon) in front of 5th Company's 1st Platoon is now in full flight. Some teams will probably escape, but many will and have fallen... at least seven dead between the dead in the hedgelined field and in the trees ahead.. from what I can see right now. I will chase them some, but will let them escape to the trees.. they will be trapped in there and pretty much out of the fight. At Blau I intended my OT34 to move back into the woods as shown... instead they backed into the position shown.. oops... hopefully that won't cost me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 They shouldn't have celebrated the torching of the Fritzes by passing the vodka around. Looks like it should be ok, for now! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The only significant risk of this is if OBJ Gelb has significant forces AND there's sufficient forces to switch over to hit you in the flank. That's a long exposed flank is what I'm trying to say If Elvis whacks your armor without losing too much you could find yourself facing a pretty significant hit to your left flank while tangled up fighting Gelb. On the other hand, if Elvis has nothing down in Gelb and you keep Blau occupied, he's unlikely to have enough elsewhere to interfere with you taking Gelb. And I suppose if the going gets really tough you could filter into the forest on your right map edge and hope to wait out until the end of the game. Hmm... yeah, lots of different ways this could go Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Looks like Bil took a play outta the "Go Big or Go Home" handbook. Talk about swingin' fer the fences! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 What kind of explosion do we get when an OT-34 gets brewed up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 The only significant risk of this is if OBJ Gelb has significant forces AND there's sufficient forces to switch over to hit you in the flank. That's a long exposed flank is what I'm trying to say If Elvis whacks your armor without losing too much you could find yourself facing a pretty significant hit to your left flank while tangled up fighting Gelb. All I have to say about that: Some goddamn fool once said that flanks have got to be secure. Since then sonofabitches all over the globe have been guarding their flanks. I don't agree with that. My flanks are something for the enemy to worry about, not me. Before he finds out where my flanks are, I'll be cutting the bastard's throat. George S. Patton I guess if Gelb is mined, well protected with ATGs, a platoon of HMGs etc then I could be in trouble... but I am prepping the area as I drive in at full speed and hope to suppress anything sitting in that little patch of woods before I disgorge my SMG platoon. Actually I am more worried about AT mines across the road. Here is my swing for the fences: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well, whichever way this one swings, there should at least be plenty of action. Now when is that dang pizza gonna get here! Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Damn! Time for more popcorn Regarding George's famous quote, sometimes I think he was a fool Not worrying about your flanks when the enemy is not sufficiently tied down, preoccupied, or demoralized is a very good way to get your tip of the spear snipped off. In fact, his thinking is very Soviet like in that respect. However, this is the sort of situation where I think a bold, deep strike could work. At the very least it's textbook Soviet doctrine Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 "Some goddamn fool once said that flanks have got to be secure. Since then sonofabitches all over the globe have been guarding their flanks. I don't agree with that. My flanks are something for the enemy to worry about, not me. Before he finds out where my flanks are, I'll be cutting the bastard's throat. George S. Patton" Very easy to have that wanton, aggressive doctrine in the attack when you are backed by an uncontested Airforce, endless supply of ammo and Sherman tanks.I feel Patton is overerated, not that he was ineffective or bad, just that there were plenty of commanders who could of got the same results under the same condtions, in other words, it didn't matter who was commanding 3rd Army, the outcome would have been the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 "Some goddamn fool once said that flanks have got to be secure. Since then sonofabitches all over the globe have been guarding their flanks. I don't agree with that. My flanks are something for the enemy to worry about, not me. Before he finds out where my flanks are, I'll be cutting the bastard's throat. George S. Patton" Very easy to have that wanton, aggressive doctrine in the attack when you are backed by an uncontested Airforce, endless supply of ammo and Sherman tanks.I feel Patton is overerated, not that he was ineffective or bad, just that there were plenty of commanders who could of got the same results under the same condtions, in other words, it didn't matter who was commanding 3rd Army, the outcome would have been the same. Not sure I entirely agree. I do think you are correct that he is over rated. Found this to be a good read on the subject. Patton At Bay: The Lorraine Campaign, 1944 John Nelson Rickard My personal feeling is Patton was a good guy for the moment. He was in his element in a wide open pursuit. Given the state of the Germany Army when he was unleashed, it was the perfect situation for one of his temperament. Once the situation changed, he did not adapt so well. His attitude about his flanks was entirely correct as the breakout was launched. Not sure very many other commanders would have gone so hell bent for leather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Very easy to have that wanton, aggressive doctrine in the attack when you are backed by an uncontested Airforce, endless supply of ammo and Sherman tanks... That's exactly what I thought when I read the quote. However, my knowledge isn't deep enough to agree or disagree with your judgment of the man himself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Man this will get really interesting once those T-34's are let loose! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Very easy to have that wanton, aggressive doctrine in the attack when you are backed by an uncontested Airforce, endless supply of ammo and Sherman tanks. Except that come September it wasn't that way. The weather began to close in, which limited the effectiveness of the air forces. The Allied armies had outrun their supply lines and fuel and ammunition—especially the all-important artillery ammunition—was in short supply (for the US Army partly because victory was expected by the end of '44 and orders at the factories was being ramped down). Plus the German army was proving, as it consistently had in the past, to be more resilient and stalwart than expected. These were not conditions in which a general with the make up of Patton would shine. I feel Patton is overerated, not that he was ineffective or bad... I agree. ...just that there were plenty of commanders who could [have] got the same results under the same condtions, in other words, it didn't matter who was commanding 3rd Army, the outcome would have been the same. That I don't agree with. I think Patton for good or ill very much stamped his character on the character of the campaign fought by 3rd. Army. Another commander, for good or ill, would have fought it in a different, possibly very different, fashion. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Damn! Time for more popcorn Regarding George's famous quote, sometimes I think he was a fool Not worrying about your flanks when the enemy is not sufficiently tied down, preoccupied, or demoralized is a very good way to get your tip of the spear snipped off. In fact, his thinking is very Soviet like in that respect. I believe what he was referring to is the same situation the Germans were in in France 1940, where you are moving so fast that the flanks are never really in danger... In a fast fluid fight, like what I am trying to do with the T34s and SMG platoon towards Objective Gelb, flanks are secondary, speed is the most important thing. I want to get there before he can react, if it is unexpected I doubt my flanks are in much danger. However you are correct Steve, in most cases ignoring your flanks can easily get your force killed. In my case I am attempting to fire in the woodline on the way up, in case some sneaky faust or schreck armed soldier is in an ambush position... and I have eyes on Elvis's armor, which is the real danger in this game. They are seriously out of position to stop my strike on Gelb. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Sadly, the screw up with my OT34 movement costs me this asset. The Panther had a bead on him and I couldn't get back in cover in time. I hated to lose that thing, but this is war, stuff happens. 5th Company In 1st Platoon's front there are now the equivalent of at least two complete German squads either killed, or captured, as shown in this image.. all those dark heaps are enemy bodies. The three soldiers shown surrendering, are part of one complete squad, the other members all lay dead or wounded around them. So if this was indeed a complete platoon then the HQ and around one squad of survivors is all that got away. At the end of the turn the lead T34 is getting ready to turn the corner into the open on the way to Gelb.. this is where it should get interesting. Situation The current situation... Notes: I spotted a PzSchreck this turn.. luckily way out of position, and obviously defending the road to Blau, of course I was never going that way. I am slowing the movement of 5th Company until I know how the T34/SMG platoon Deep Strike goes. IF Elvis decides to act against my T34s at Gelb with his armor, then I will conduct a full two company attack against Blau.. In a few turns my ISU-122s should be in positions and firing on the buildings in Blau. Am I stretching the defenses enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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