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Bil Hardenberger

CMRT - BETA AAR - Soviet Side

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As a friend of mine has Problems getting his Password. I'll copy his Post and paste it.

should this happen again I will mention it at the beginning of the post.

Jishmael:

"Here are my 2 Cents, being a long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm not really too keen on the ISU-122. You're bringing a fixed gun tank destroyer with horrible armor sloping to an offensive engagement. Why not take an IS-2 if you can somehow afford it? A its Armor is better B it has a Turret which will probably help with all that cityfighting C it brings good MG firepower D It would add another new Unit to show and is also very iconic.

For the T34: I wish I could remember the Performance Values for the Russian 76mm Tank Gun. I can only say that in CMBB I generally preferred the T34/85, but that might have been psychological. Still I think it might be worth considering.

Las thing: After looking at the topdown map for a while I feel like this might be a very very tough map for so many vehicles, getting into a long range Engagement with possibly paks on your left flank feels scary. Driving through all that Forest with Shreks abound feels scary. But I'd look forward to seeing you pull that off.

In any case very excited about this AAR!"

Jishmael, thanks for your thoughts. I know the ISU-122 is not ideal, but it is what the masses have called for and this is a BETA AAR, not personal, thus I hope to show off what people want to see.. and really the IS-2, as awesome as it is, is really just another tank. ;) I would actually prefer a second platoon of T34/85s.

Well the woods don't frighten me.. a nice infantry screen should reveal any surprises Elvis has in store.. hopefully ;) I have an initial plan of maneuver and I will take whatever my opponent gives me.. but that detail will have to wait until the game begins.

Thanks again! I appreciate the feedback.

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I don't like the Idea of selecting forces for specific battle fields. It just seems realy gamey to me.

Would you call a task organized force (Battle Group, Kampfgruppe, Task Force, Combat Team) that was organized with the terrain in mind gamey? Because that is exactly what happened in real combat units.. sure they could not cherry pick units like we can, but this is a game, and these BETA AAR battles use cherry picked forces to show off certain features or units.

I find QB games to be a lot of fun and a great test of skill. That is indeed gamey, but this is a game, and I enjoy facing off against a skilled opponent as if we sit across from each other with a really advanced chess board separating us.

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The ISU-122 is cool, but tossing one of them in exchange for an ISU-152 would be cooler-er. Zvierboy and all that.

Who cares about reloading sequence? As if it'd need more than one shell anyway.

:)

Ken

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Well, yes you are absolutley correct.

My statement was just to blunt and didn't deliver what I meant.

What I wouldn't like is, that my oponent analysis the map and choose his units specific for every hill, corner etc..

As I now reread sfhands post, I recognice he didn't meant that. So, well I'm sorry for the confusion.

I like your composition and I think It'll be nice to see these toys in action. And for the prurpose of a BETA AAR imho it's realy good as it shows a lot of diffrent things (flame thrower tanks, IL2, tank riders, smg companies, ISUs, t34/85, supply trucks) and is still a balanced and capable force.

So good luck.

And perhabs don't analys your moves as much as normal so that your enemy has a chance ^^.

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The ISU-122 is cool, but tossing one of them in exchange for an ISU-152 would be cooler-er. Zvierboy and all that.

Who cares about reloading sequence? As if it'd need more than one shell anyway.

:)

Ken

Yeah and who cares if it runs out of ammo, than it just turns into a giant battering ram/Steam roller. We can all watch as the screaming fritzes run for there lives before being crushed under the steel might of Mother Russia!

*Ahem* Sorry got a little carried away there...

FOR THE MOTHERLAND!

:cool:

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Would you call a task organized force (Battle Group, Kampfgruppe, Task Force, Combat Team) that was organized with the terrain in mind gamey? Because that is exactly what happened in real combat units.. sure they could not cherry pick units like we can, but this is a game, and these BETA AAR battles use cherry picked forces to show off certain features or units.

I find QB games to be a lot of fun and a great test of skill. That is indeed gamey, but this is a game, and I enjoy facing off against a skilled opponent as if we sit across from each other with a really advanced chess board separating us.

Well put. Those are my thoughts exactly about the game. I think what is most important to players is for the COMBAT, and environment to have as much realism while fitting into a fun, playable game format. Combat Mission does that.

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Oh, Bil is playing Russians this time! Does this mean he's going to discard is usual command sensibilities and instead throw his men into the meat grinder heedless of casualties, Soviet-style? :D

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What I wouldn't like is, that my oponent analysis the map and choose his units specific for every hill, corner etc..

This is what I miss about random maps. It's not the maps themselves -- the pre-made ones are better -- it's not knowing exactly what you're getting into.

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I wanted to post this question on the main CMRT forum. But "Tankodesantniki" is not mentioned anywhere else on the website and I did not want to give anything away to Elvis.

So what weapons do Tankodesantniki have? Is it typical to the M43 and M44 type units? Or something else?

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Jishmael, thanks for your thoughts. I know the ISU-122 is not ideal, but it is what the masses have called for and this is a BETA AAR, not personal, thus I hope to show off what people want to see.. and really the IS-2, as awesome as it is, is really just another tank. ;) I would actually prefer a second platoon of T34/85s.

Well the woods don't frighten me.. a nice infantry screen should reveal any surprises Elvis has in store.. hopefully ;) I have an initial plan of maneuver and I will take whatever my opponent gives me.. but that detail will have to wait until the game begins.

Thanks again! I appreciate the feedback.

Just another Tank? Just my Favourite Beast of Steel ever! :P But if you think you can use the ISU-122 effectively roll with them I guess. Maybe I'll learn a thing or too about using more classical tank hunters/Assault Guns, as most of my experience comes from using 152s as Spearheads/Bunkerbusters or Western Front Paper-Scooter TDs.

I had some really bad experiences with US Armor in Deep Woods in CMBN, but now that you mention the infantry screen it was probably cause I embedded my Stuarts in the front line instead of keeping them back a little more. So that too is something I'm looking forward to see ^^

Thanks for the reply, I'm really excited for Red Thunder, Sovjet Russians are my Favourite Army to play in almost any Wargame because of their Collection of Toys, Mass of Stuff and the aggressive tactics one can pull off with them. SO yeah, really psyched for this AAR :)

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Just another Tank? Just my Favourite Beast of Steel ever! :P But if you think you can use the ISU-122 effectively roll with them I guess. Maybe I'll learn a thing or too about using more classical tank hunters/Assault Guns, as most of my experience comes from using 152s as Spearheads/Bunkerbusters or Western Front Paper-Scooter TDs.

I had some really bad experiences with US Armor in Deep Woods in CMBN, but now that you mention the infantry screen it was probably cause I embedded my Stuarts in the front line instead of keeping them back a little more. So that too is something I'm looking forward to see ^^

Thanks for the reply, I'm really excited for Red Thunder, Sovjet Russians are my Favourite Army to play in almost any Wargame because of their Collection of Toys, Mass of Stuff and the aggressive tactics one can pull off with them. SO yeah, really psyched for this AAR :)

Jishmael, I really appreciate you contributing! Yes the IS-2 is an amazing piece of machinery... it is not invulnerable (ask pnzrldr ;) ) but in this close terrain I much prefer the quicker maneuvering and faster loading T34/85s... it will make a difference. I am only including the ISU-122s because a few people have requested them.. and I want to show some new equipment off. I am willing to bring along one ISU-152.. but talk about a piece of eqipment that has failed to impress.

Yes in this terrain you need to lead with infantry. In fact, you have to scout the terrain ahead before you commit any major portion of your combat power. regardless of whether its armor or infantry.

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Let's go, play! I want to see how it plays. Btw, a hasty attack with katyushas is completely possible and realistic. All tank armies in '44 had rocket artillery assets, usually 82mm. Check it out. Actually they had a lot of diverse assets precisely so that they could effectively conduct exploitation into German operational depths. They didn't have any of those serious STAVKA level arty assets like artillery division, but they did have very dedicated air assets, down to regiment level.

Seriously though - play!

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Jishmael, I really appreciate you contributing! Yes the IS-2 is an amazing piece of machinery... it is not invulnerable (ask pnzrldr ;) ) but in this close terrain I much prefer the quicker maneuvering and faster loading T34/85s... it will make a difference. I am only including the ISU-122s because a few people have requested them.. and I want to show some new equipment off. I am willing to bring along one ISU-152.. but talk about a piece of eqipment that has failed to impress.

Yes in this terrain you need to lead with infantry. In fact, you have to scout the terrain ahead before you commit any major portion of your combat power. regardless of whether its armor or infantry.

I agree about the T34/85 in Relation to the Terrain. The Is2 really limits your redeployment and maneuver options and forces a more straight push for the Town and the Farm. Also good poind on the faster loading, might make the Difference against those pesky Panthers if they appear.

While I really love the ISU-152 for the mean look and big bang it would probably only shine if Elvis goes for something really static with fortified positions and maybe Bunkers, which you could crack with what you have now. So as much as I love that thing its probably not a good idea.

On the Matter of Scouting, yeah I do that alot. The Thing I'm not too used too from CMBN are actual Infantry Screens, as with the Allies there I usually can use a good combination of Jeeps, Strong Armoured Cars or maybe even MG Carriers (The Polish Recon Formations are so insanely awesome imho) and can use my Infantry more as a main fighting Force. I'll probabl.y have to change my Tactics there a lot when playing Russians in the New Engine ^^

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An IS-2 was more often used in the opening breakthrough assault that would punch a hole that would introduce tank armies into German operational depths. The T-34 or M-4 were more often the tank to see combat under hasty combat conditions as a tank army ran into a hasty defense at a town along the way to their objective. They were often in independent heavy tank regiments and brigades, rather than in a tank corps/army.

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