CMRT - BETA AAR - Soviet Side

[Bil Hardenberger]

Select the principal enemy objective to be seized and the best routes for attacking it. Make a decisive concentration of combat power at the correct time.

FM 100-2-1 Soviet Army - Excerpt from PRINCIPLES OF MILITARY ART

So this AAR will of course serve to highlight some of the new features included in CM: Red Thunder. Note that this is still a BETA and as such whenever textures or other features are incomplete, those will not be highlighted until ready.

For this little fight I will be taking on Elvis. The map is by the incomparable GeorgeMc, thanks George! It is of course a cropped down version of a map he created for a specific scenario.

I gave Elvis the option to choose which side he would take, and he chose the Germans, he also preferred an Attack QB to an ME so that is what we will be doing.

I will take the Russians and will be on the attack. Here is the QB setup screen:

Note that even though we chose this as a large QB we will not be spending all of the available points. We will stay within these parameters:

• Attacker (me): will spend no more than 3500 points

• Defender (Elvis) will spend no more that 2500 points

• We will use standard rarity.. not spending more than the points allotted (3500 & 2500) in the rarity column

• Russian: must buy at least one aircraft

• Russian: must purchase at least a platoon of tanks capable of carrying tank riders

• German must buy at least one AAA gun (of any flavor)

• We each must purchase at least one flamethrower, of any flavor

• No limits on anything else

As for what forces I will play with, what I want to do for this battle is take advice from you, and use that when purchasing my force. So start thinking of what you would like to see, we must include the items listed above, so keep that in mind. We will work point values out as we go.

So you can get an idea on the type of terrain we are fighting over, here are some screen shots.

These images are from the Russian setup area.. note that there are some fords so we can cross some of those beautiful streams that George provided.

From the German side.. the built up area is a major concern.

Finally, here is a large topo map for planning purposes. The grid is at 100m.

Looking forward to hearing what your thoughts are and what type of force YOU think would be best to attack the German force defending. Please, if you read both threads keep the cross pollination to a minimum.

[sburke]

hot damn thanks again Bil

[costard]

Hi Bil - SMG squads for that forested area? Mix 'em up with flamers and we have an assault from hell.

Is that toppo map part of the briefing/preview now, or is that an import from the scenario builder?

[76mm]

I guess the green circles and square are your objectives? Map looks kinda tough to defend, pretty broken up, lots of dead ground. I would therefore favor lots of cheap units that you can use to ooze around whatever spots he chooses to defend.

[Dadekster]

Where are the fordable areas on the map? I can't seem to locate them. Also how far forward is the deployment area?

[herr_oberst]

That water looks like it might be a pointy bit to deal with.

One aircraft, two platoons of tanks for tank riders, SMG-equipped (maybe?) riders for those tanks, a good swath of infantry to advance in the woods and built up areas, and all the arty you can muster. The map should look like a pock-marked moonscape once your arty is used up.

[MikeyD]

Dang! Remember people to not get upset if you happen to spot items not entirely textured yet in Beta screenshots. There's still some catching up left to do. A fair amount of the vehicles in the game screenshots still had wet paint when the shots were taken!

[BletchleyGeek]

Also how far forward is the deployment area?

Assuming that Elvis can deploy AT guns on 0505 or 0506, I would take a battalion-size infantry unit (the infantry doesn't need to be all of it very high quality but the assault group, with engineers and SMG-heavy units with high motivation) supported by two platoons of armour (one SU's the other T-34's), and plenty of 82mm mortars, so you can assault and overwhelm those two areas and open up the map.

If he needs to be further back, pretty much the same infantry force, but armour support being fully composed of fast and nimble T-34's.

[Dadekster]

I have to say it is a beautiful map to look at.

I agree, get plenty of infantry and artillery support. Middle of the map looks like terrain made to chew up armor. Platoon of tanks and I'd get some SPG's as well.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Assuming that Elvis can deploy AT guns on 0505 or 0506, I would take a battalion-size infantry unit (the infantry doesn't need to be all of it very high quality but the assault group, with engineers and SMG-heavy units with high motivation) supported by two platoons of armour (one SU's the other T-34's), and plenty of 82mm mortars, so you can assault and overwhelm those two areas and open up the map.

I don't think he has nearly enough points for a force like that. But it's hard to say for sure.

[herr_oberst]

I don't think he has nearly enough points for a force like that. But it's hard to say for sure.

Maybe just two platoons of T-34's, riders, and all the FO's with off board 120's he can find.

That could be fun.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I wonder if the Soviets ever coined a single word for this concept like the Germans did.

Looking forward to hearing what your thoughts are and what type of force YOU think would be best to attack the German force defending. Please, if you read both threads keep the cross pollination to a minimum.

I suggest a full company of ISU-152s and an elite sniper.

Just kidding. I know little about Soviet OOB, and have no idea what the point values are. But after fiddling around in the CMBN QB editor I think a rough OOB that would work is:

• 1 company rifle infantry (dismounted)
  
• 1 company SMG infantry (dismounted)
  
• 1 platoon of engineers/pioneers
  
• 1 platoon T-34/85
  
• 1 strafing aircraft
  
• as many organic (battalion) machine guns and mortars as you have points left over for. I'd try to bring at least six 82mm mortar tubes.
  

EDIT: or alternatively 2 SMG companies if ammo depots are available to supply them.

The problem that you are going to run into is that the terrain promises an lot of forest and city fighting, which can burn through infantry fast. That's an issue because since Elvis has no requirement for armor, if he chooses to do so he can match or even exceed your headcount despite having fewer points to spend.

I'd give you advice on where to place your schwerpunkt, but you haven't asked for it and probably don't need it. But there is an obvious route to your objectives. Problem is, it's obvious

[Aragorn2002]

Nice map. I'm also very happy with all the vehicles that will be included in RT. Even the Grille is available. I hope that vehicle will be added to CM Normandy too sooner or later.

[costard]

As an idea:

Arty stonk as prep, linear, 025095-035085 and linear, 075085-085085. Short and heavy.

Big right hook (two companies - 1 rifle, one smg - plus engineers) and a fast left (tank riders over ground previously scouted) when you have your guys level with the first objective. Watch for a counter from your right after you begin the hook proper from the bridge at 085085. If this happens the tank riders come in following the hook, and support your flank, else they take the left flank over open ground and help reduce the first objective.

Plan to make it up as you go after this.

core: Battalion(-): two companies rifle, smg company(-), engineer company(-), high quality FO

support: two platoons T34 (six in total in two squads of three?), 1 aircraft, one platoon T70 (if you can afford them) or armoured scout vehicles

arty: organic 82mm mortars, 2 x 150mm, three trp

I'm pretty sure I'll be over budget - maybe swap the 150mm for 120mm mortars?

[Vanir Ausf B]

How large are Soviet tank platoons anyways? I was assuming 5 tanks like the Germans, but now I'm having vague recollections from CMBB that they were only 3 tanks, which would give Bil some more flexibility.

[Sergei]

Standard Soviet tank company consists of 3 platoons of 3 tanks plus commander's tank. IS platoons are a little different.

Some heavy assault gun, such as SU-122, would be swell at reducing any bunkers he might have and rooting entrenched infantry.

You also have to buy an airplane. I would buy the cheapest option available, as putting a large amount of points into an asset that may be shot down immediately doesn't sound appealing.

[Mike Churchmoor]

I would like to see & hear (vids!?) the following:

Vehicles: T-70, T-34, BA-64, SU-152

Small arms: DP, Maxim, Suomi...erhm I mean PPSh, PTRD, flamethrower

Plane: Il-2

Thanks again for your time & effort when doing these AARs!

[Albe Pavo]

I particularly would like to see some russian HEAVY artillery and SMG company fighting in the woods!

For the remaining, everything is good to me!

[costard]

You also have to buy an airplane. I would buy the cheapest option available, as putting a large amount of points into an asset that may be shot down immediately doesn't sound appealing.

I was wondering about this - IL2 is supposed to be pretty tough to bring down and might be a big help with a line-backer Cat or two. I'm guessing it'd be expensive, but.

[costard]

..and a bit more reading leads me to believe that an unarmed aircraft would be the Russians' best bet. I'm wanting the Reds to win this one and having half their tank force taken out by their own air arm isn't going to help.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I totally forgot that there are ammo depots in CMRT. I might switch out the rifle company in my original OOB and go with 2 SMG companies if I could keep them supplied.

[Sergei]

I totally forgot that there are ammo depots in CMRT. I might switch out the rifle company in my original OOB and go with 2 SMG companies if I could keep them supplied.

Those ammo crates aren't going to grow legs and move on their own. I believe you'd want trucks so they can keep up, 1h30m is not a lot of time to run back and forth for supplies on such a long map.

[Vanir Ausf B]

That's a good point. But trucks are cheap and he probably wouldn't need more than a few.

Knowing Bil he'll probably have some sort of transport for most of his infantry anyways.

[BletchleyGeek]

I don't think he has nearly enough points for a force like that. But it's hard to say for sure.

I know, I am not sure either that will fit on 3500 points. But QB purchases points are sometimes rather... ehm, surprising.

I suggest a full company of ISU-152s and an elite sniper.

Taking into account how awesome can sometimes be 105mm indirect fire in CMBN and CMFI, I think that the 122mm variety of ISU is a good compromise between points cost and effectiveness.

Just kidding. I know little about Soviet OOB, and have no idea what the point values are. But after fiddling around in the CMBN QB editor I think a rough OOB that would work is:

• 1 company rifle infantry (dismounted)
  
• 1 company SMG infantry (dismounted)
  
• 1 platoon of engineers/pioneers
  
• 1 platoon T-34/85
  
• 1 strafing aircraft
  
• as many organic (battalion) machine guns and mortars as you have points left over for. I'd try to bring at least six 82mm mortar tubes.
  

EDIT: or alternatively 2 SMG companies if ammo depots are available to supply them.

Well, I was close to the mark - let's see if Bil can fit more armour within those 3500 points.

[Bil Hardenberger]

I am seeing a common theme with your requests.. a lot of infantry,, much of it SMG... that we can do for sure.

Armor, yes the Russian tank platoon has 3 tanks.. I need to explore the point costs of tank riders and their mounts... maybe I can afford more than one platoon?

Indirect artillery. can I ask why you guys, almost all of you, would like of map artillery? My philosophy is, even though I do a lot of area fire, is that I hate wasting firepower.. and indirect artillery takes so long to come in that it can be wasted if it doesn't arrive in sync with the attack. However, I had a very successful artillery barrage in my AAR with ND (CMFI BETA AAR).. so maybe. But I prefer on map assets.. either SP guns or mortars.

Yes I am thinking of bringing several trucks for resupply.

Aircraft - I was thinking of perhaps buying two strafing IL2s, problem is they bring a big hit to the rarirty cost.. 79 to purchase, 257 rarity...

But rarity might not be an issue for me:

Tankodesantniki Company - 3 platoons, with two platoons of T-34/76 costs: 1711 points and 0 rarity. That is six T34 tanks... maybe a good core to build on?

I was thinking of an OT-34 to take care of my flamethrower requirement.. it costs 250 points and 1175 rarity. I suspect Elvis will purchase dismounted flamethrower(s) and think the armored variety would be fun.

If I add two rifle companies to that with Battalion mortar and HMG support (6 82mm mortars, 6 Maxim HMG teams) my total goes to 3589 with 1649 rarity... so very close to my 3500 point limit. I could then play with the various settings to get beneath the 3500 point cap.

I did not account for supply trucks so will have to sacrifice something to get at least four.. they are cheap though, from 32-35 points so I should be able to make room.

Thoughts? Tweaks?