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Strategiclayabout

AoD balance issue(s)/ladder experience

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Hi :) ,

- I just experienced a big balance issue in my last ladder game because of the morale/readiness boost to axis units from conquered minors. Having a one turn small bonus is fine but the cumulative effect completely destroys game balance in my opinion.

- I saw axis units between 6-8 supply (not even 10 or 9) have up to 140% morale and 120% readiness. It can be utterly devastating with elite units, good/experienced HQs and tech advantage.

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- That alone would be "manageable" but there are other problems:

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1) the bonus affects ALL axis units

(meaning Germans can time their western gains to boost Japs and back)

(you'll then have panzers with full morale readiness in Sept-Nov 41 -_-')

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2) the bonus only decreases by what gives a conquered minor each turn

(so if you get 3-4 minors then 1 per turn the bonus stays for several turns)

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3) the bonus more or less negates weather/terrain defensive bonuses

(so you can keep attacking in mud or snow with quite good effect)

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4) the bonus can be used to maintain combat efficiency for amphib units

(move them to 1 supply, pile bonuses and you can attack 100 tiles away...)

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5) the bonus allows easy experience/elite step building

(Japs will gain it in China then roll over half the world unopposed)

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6) the bonus makes air/carrier units deadly

(they will wipe out unentrenched land units with barely any loss)

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7) I probably miss some other points but you get the idea...

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- You can see in the pic below one of the worst consequences: nearly invulnerable units even in very low supply. The Hungarians with 2 supply have better stats than the soviet corps at 10 supply (didn't move for at least 4 turns as you can see entrenchment 4 level).

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Nothing_to_do.jpg

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- What I propose as possible solutions:

1) eliminate that bonus completely

2) eliminate its cumulative effect

(only 1 conquered minor per turn can give it)

3) replace the morale/readiness boost by a NM bonus for the conqueror

(something like +500 a bit above the bonus for sinking a carrier)

Thanks for reading !

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Though, the bonus/penalty for NM is pretty much insignificant, and a lot of difference is needed to make it even present at all.

(assuming it works like in AoC, this is it)

The Effect of National Morale on Unit Morale

National Morale 0 - 40% -> unit.morale = unit.morale * 85%

National Morale 41 - 75% -> unit.morale = unit.morale * 90%

National Morale 76 - 90 % -> unit.morale = unit.morale * 95%

National Morale 110% or higher -> unit.morale = unit.morale * 110%

For sure, if you manage an NM of 110 or more, pretty much impossible given the large amounts of NM all majors save france sport in AOD, then it would be neat. Otherwise, very meh.

(I very much agree that this boost is a problem though, making it non stackable might help)

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a) it is insignifant because of the current game design (which my suggestion would change, at least a bit. The main work would be to use the NM in way that it because something you have look after)

B) believe me, conquering Danmark or Greece doens't help a poor landser on the eastern front, actually, it doesn't help at all to raise the readiness or the unit morale facing modern soviet tank units. If at all the effect is pretty low, but surely not able to creat such high values for readiness or unit morale.

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a) it is insignifant because of the current game design

B) believe me, conquering Danmark or Greece doens't help a poor landser on the eastern front, actually, it doesn't help at all to raise the readiness or the unit morale facing modern soviet tank units. If at all the effect is pretty low, but surely not able to creat such high values for readiness or unit morale.

I couldnt agree more (as stated). My point was only that solving it with national morale gains as a simulation of the cumulative "snowball" effect shown in the initial german and Japanese grand invasions isnt very good either :).

It must be said though, as an aside, that news of great victories helped soldiers (of the same nation generally and to a very limited scope the same alliance, germany/italy most notably) hold on through trials that they might not otherwise have. So some sort of mechanic for this would be good.

Perhaps the solution, as you seem to indicate, is to make NM play a larger role even in the ww2 scenarios.

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Thanks for the comments both of you :) ,

@ Ash:

- Actually making NM more significant without going the WWI way was the idea with that +500 NM. In my mind capturing a minor is more or less the same morale blow as losing a main unit (upgraded HQ or big ship) for majors except it has more side-effects (MPPs/strategy) so I rounded numbers up.

- If you consider a starting NM of 100,000 500 is 0,5%. Germany usually captures 7 minors before Barbarossa (Poland, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Greece) that's +3,5% already. Add NM locations, some events plus units destroyed in low supply and it continues to climb.

- So it helps to reach 110 but isn't decisive while pushing Axis to be a bit more cautious with ships or units in low supply. There is also the fact that Axis NM grows while Allies one tends to go down early in the game. Then the final result can be quite significant for combat abilities with a NM gap of 15-20%.

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Thanks for the comments both of you :) ,

@ Ash:

- Actually making NM more significant without going the WWI way was the idea with that +500 NM. In my mind capturing a minor is more or less the same morale blow as losing a main unit (upgraded HQ or big ship) for majors except it has more side-effects (MPPs/strategy) so I rounded numbers up.

- If you consider a starting NM of 100,000 500 is 0,5%. Germany usually captures 7 minors before Barbarossa (Poland, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Greece) that's +3,5% already. Add NM locations, some events plus units destroyed in low supply and it continues to climb.

- So it helps to reach 110 but isn't decisive while pushing Axis to be a bit more cautious with ships or units in low supply. There is also the fact that Axis NM grows while Allies one tends to go down early in the game. Then the final result can be quite significant for combat abilities with a NM gap of 15-20%.

Hm, looking at it that way, you certainly have a point! The NM gain would have to be tweaked to have an effect, but not too much. 20-30% difference in NM really doesnt have very much if an effect, unless that difference is between 110+ and 80-85 or so.

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I experienced the same in a single ladder game.

There, supply of AXis units is 0 to 2 and readiness/ morale still over 100.

Incidentally, I never experienced this before in any other SC game.

Strangely, StratLays and my game are against the same opponent.

I dont think it is a balance issue.

I think it has to do with fair play.

Enough said.

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