Let's talk about the Road to Nijmegen

[Holien]

The historical maps in the MG module were researched very carefully. Wherever possible, period maps and photographs were used. In some cases, even individual tree placement was keyed off of period sources. So in general I'd trust the CM maps over the old CCABTF maps.

Thxs for that...

So did PT use the historical maps in MG?

[YankeeDog]

PT himself will have to answer as to the exact details of the maps used in the campaign; I was only involved in playtesting, not construction. IIRC, at least some of them are excerpted from the MG "Master Maps", though, and these were very carefully researched. I'm not saying they're 100% forensically accurate cartographic reproductions of 1944 Holland, but I do think you'll be hard pressed to find higher fidelity maps of this scale in any computer wargame on the market today.

It's been long time, but back in the day I played a fair bit of CCABTF as well. Best I can recall, it was quite a different scale game from CM, and on average the maps depicted much smaller areas. IIRC, the CC games also did a fair bit of weapons range compression in that game to make combat "fit" onto the small maps.

[Holien]

Yes very hard to make direct comparisons between two game systems especially as one I have not played in quite a few years....

It was just a passing comment and musing on my perception of terrain in CC.

Also the focus of that game was all the different sites where as this campaign just touches on some of those battles...

Right I must make some time to play the campaign in-between turn for a PBEM I playing. Just playing CMFI and trying to take a hill top village is proving to be a tad difficult...

[Tim1966]

I don't think CCABTF maps are anywhere near as accurate as CM. The size was a lot smaller and the number of units limited some what. My comparison was they way you followed a linear campaign which you didn't' actually control like the Road to Nijmegen. I think CC lost something when it allowed you to make the campaign moves. I lost the feeling I was a junior officer carrying out orders. CM has restored that and I find the ebb and flow exciting and challenging. I think the CM maps are massively more accurate and interesting.

I suppose we all get different things out of our games and hobbies. Personally as an ex rugby player I don't worry to much about winning - its about the taking part. I'd prefer a game that is nip and tuck and we lost to one we won 80 - nil. That said it feel so much better to win a nip and tuck then losing and I certainly didn't want to be on the end of a thrashing. Luckily as someone has said this is a game so no one is dying due to my incompetence.

About half way through bloody Aalst - very tight and exciting battle. Pretty much levelling the place - I'm sure the Dutch wouldn't like my methods of 'liberation'...

On climbing Everest - I recommend an excellent book on Mallorys attempts in the 1920s - Into the Silence by Wade Davis. It sets the attempts against the background of WW1 (many of the people involved were vets). It was so well written I keep hoping he and Irvine would still make it back on that last fatal attempt. Amazingly amateur and to some extent arrogant expeditions.

[ss11955]

I'm replaying through Badlands at the moment, with 3 hours. I tell you something, 3 hour missions are a good idea. Gives you plenty of time to plan a strategy plus you can ceasefire at any time without consequence providing you hit the targets. I like it.

I was winning about 50% of the missions until I got to Bloody Aalst. Great mission but has anybody managed a win yet? You have to fight for every inch. It's crazy and costly. Just wondering if this one is winnable - will have to ask PT.

"can ceasefire at any time without consequence providing you hit the targets " ------Could you clarify/explain/example---- of this for my education in playing this great game !!! Thank you.

[ZPB II]

"can ceasefire at any time without consequence providing you hit the targets " ------Could you clarify/explain/example---- of this for my education in playing this great game !!! Thank you.

I'm not him but I assume he means that after you control your objectives you can ceasefire when you want and be awarded a win.

[phil stanbridge]

Yes, with a 3 hour time limit sometimes you don't want to continue to the bitter end. Providing you have acquired enough points in the mission you will be awarded a win. But it can be a risky strategy so always save the game before the ceasefire just in case.

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

First of all I'd like to thank Paper Tiger for the "interesting" campaign. And by interesting it's been extremely fun and extremely frustrating at the same time. I've watched the Armchair General videos countless times to help my train of thought as the biggest issue I have is mostly coming up with a viable attack plan and then executing that plan.

With this campaign I've taken some lumps here and there but I thought I was doing well until I hit the Lock Bridge scenario. And it was there that I have hit the proverbial brick wall. ** SPOILER ALERT **

A concrete MG bunker and an HGM out there. So I told myself to find a good line of sight to see the other side of the river bank and have my MMG suppress the MG bunker and fan out infantry to get in close to take it out. It was an utter disaster. The PAK gun, the concrete MG bunker and 2 other HMGs shredded my squads (which I hadn't split) to pieces. My MMG guy constantly penetrated the the concrete MG bunker but the Germans seemed to be amused by it more than worried.

So I regrouped and said to myself "Some smoke on that MG bunker would probably help". Reset and I put a smoke screen point target in the area in front of the MG bunker. As luck would have it one out of the 4 smoke rounds actually hit where I wanted to. But only 4 smoke rounds. I'm thinking "I need more smoke to make this work" but decide I'll deal with the cards I've been dealt (as war sometimes does...grin). I took one platoon and put them on the left side near the buildings and then took my second platoon and put them on the fence line area near the middle of the map. And then it was the 200 meter quick dash for my men in different directions. The PAK gun decimated 2 of my squads on the left platoon (even though I had them separated by about 50 meters) with one shot. My right squad took some casualties from the concrete MG bunker but I made it to the wooded area with acceptable losses. And then I moved up that squad to see what was up ahead. Hello PAK gun, HMG squad in a building, and a rifle squad in another building. Thinking I had good cover and concealment with the woods I laid on the fire thick and heavy and followed up with an 81mm mortar strike on the PAK gun and my remaining 60mm mortar strikes on the identified HMG in the building and the rifle squad in the building. Suppression was great (or at least it looked like it on my end) but the 81 strike didn't kill the PAK gun and the 60mm mortars ducked the HMG and may have caused a few casualties but they still prevailed and didn't high tail it and run. So I couldn't clear the right side. Focusing on the left side squad I pushed them up to the riverbank on the left side of the concrete MG. And then discovered another HMG squad and a rifle squad in a building behind the concrete MG bunker. I laid the fire on thick and heavy and "thought" there was no way anyone would survive the amount of lead I had just put in that building. I had a squad approach from the left side of the concrete MG bunker to take it out but apparently I had brought my men to far back and that gave the MG bunker a side shot to lay on them. MG bunker 1 My poor squad 0. So then I hugged another squad as close to the river bank as I could and got within 25 meters of the concrete MG bunker. This squad had a bazooka and 8 AT rounds. Let em have it boys. The concrete bunker took bazooka round after bazooka round on the left side but the Germans decided to lower their heads and drink coffee and say "Look at the dumb Americans trying to drive us out with bazooka rounds". So now out of AT rounds I moved them in closer towards the front. My squad started tossing grenades but the Germans apparently didn't take too kindly to that and opened up again and ripped my squad apart even though 10 seconds before they were quivering down looking at their boots yelling "Mommy make them stop". A stalemate on my right and my assault on the concrete MG bunker was ripping my squads apart.

Okay time to rethink things. Smoke check. MG hitting the concrete MG bunker check. Split squads check. Short rushes for 30-50 meters in different directions check. And that didn't work. This time I managed to get the MG bunker knocked out but once I crossed the other side of the bridge it was a disaster.

And then I've replayed this scenario I'd say at least 8 times. Trying different things and none of them had led to a victory. Just not enough time and, in my humble opinion, not enough heavy weapon support to get the job done. But I don't consider myself a great player. Though I think I'm getting better (and it's about time) this particular scenario has had me up at night thinking of what am I doing wrong and how can I fix it.

So like I said. Challenging but frustrating at the same time. I'd love to hear from someone who's been able to beat this scenario with details on how they did it.

[nachinus]

Buffpuff, I haven't played this campaign yet, but I'm afraid there are some missions like this one in every official campaign. I'd like campaigns to be less hardcore, but sadly we have to endure quite a lot of frustration with most of them from time to time. And deal with the fact that there are some scenarios that we just can't win.

If this is not a 'must win' scenario, and you can continue the campaign without winning it, my advice would be to preserve your forces, try to earn some points if possible with reasonable losses so you win at least something towards the campaign end score, and click ceasefire.

Maybe the campaign testers are all hardcore elite players who win every scenario no matter how hard... or worst, they are relentless masochists.

I take this opportunity to ask for some compassion from campaign designers for the average players.

[phil stanbridge]

Maybe the campaign testers are all hardcore elite players who win every scenario no matter how hard... or worst, they are relentless masochists.

I take this opportunity to ask for some compassion from campaign designers for the average players.

I can assure you we are not all hardened elite players.

[Oddball_E8]

Let's talk about all the good things, and the bad things, that may be!

Oh... sorry... thought we were singin' here...

[H1nd]

Have. any. of. you. played the "Here we fight" scenario yet? If bloody Alst is a bad then this is down right impossible torture but damn me if I dont try and grind it trough with at least a draw.

I guess a spoiler alert is appropriate at this point!

First off I confess that I save scum like hell. Mainly because I play to win that campaing and secondly because it is so furstrating to see your infantry die 1000 times in various stupid ways. So I babysit my infantry and leaders quite a lot! however, I still tend to accept losses that seem realistic, eg. infantry squad storms a german position and there is certainly going to be some casualities. So by the time of bloody alst my infantry was nevertheless quite depleted but overall I had managed to preserve 80% troops strenght and at least 65-70% of my leaders. I tried the map several times. In my third attempt I finaly ended up grinding down the town systematicaly to ruins using the aa crusaders and all my other tanks to great and ruthless effect. Always using infantry to scout enemy positions first then moving the heavy fire support using non-obvious routes of aproach = blasting my way trough them high stone walls and even buildings to flank enemy positions. The result was total german surrender by the time i was closing in the third and final objective in the town. So I didnt have to exit any troops and therefore didnt have to kill them pesky 88's and TD's on my right flank Certainly a thing to consider when playing this scenario in what ever way you prefer, the germans will surrender if you grind them to dust inside the town. If all else fails, save your arty for massive smoke screen to exit the c-company.

Badlands was a pushover with not much of notice other than the two hmg jeeps are awesome flanking troop of epic proportions i had them eliminate flanking mg's, aa gun and a hmg position before doing the final assault.

Then.. I came in to the "Here we fight" scenario... To be noted that to this point I had managed to keep the 1st platoon of the C-COY 1/505pir relatively intact and had beaten off all the previous enemy assaults but now the campaing is certainly throwing me a impossible one. I mean, beating off a super bad luftwaffe penal batallion is one thing but im now facing entire reinforced fallschirmjäger battalion with 3 panthers. I have to say that Paper Tiger has certainly managed to make one hell of a AI plan that seems pretty much impossible to win and that is probably how this is intended to go because of my previous victories. I love it! Ahh the desperation of the situation is so sweet. How ever here as in previous missions I find it very very frustrating that my bazooka teams can only hit a barn at point blank range... this is one of the game mechanics faults that ruin the otherwise perfect scenario and I am forced to give it a one last try before giving up the mission. What ever your game style is I think save scumming to get at least a partialy effective hit from bazooka at range of less than 50m is relative ok even if you are a hard boiled ironman.

All in all this is without a doubt the most epic and ruthless campaing in CM's history and the sheer professionalism, quality and realism of the campaing is astonishing! The sheer ammount of tears in this thread alone proves the above mentioned facts. Paper Tiger, you should be very proud!

But to all that find the campaing too hard: Seriously dont be too hard on yourselves for save scumming. Accept the campaing for what it is: near impossible in rl, certainly very very hard in the game if you try to ironman trough it. I would leave it to HC professionals to go trough it the hard way. If you plan fails, iterate, think on it and plan a new strategy. Some times it pays to be bold, sometimes you will just have to run like hell. But in general it is not to be played or expected to be played like regular scenarios where casualities aren not that much of a problem. You can't let your guard down for a one second or it will bite you back.

Cheers and forgive me of all the typos and grammar errors!

[Tank Hunter]

An alternative for BF could be to add force multiplier just as in QBs. Campaign designers could then tag certain units to be dynamic depending on the force multiplier the player chooses.

That would essentialy be like having difficulty settings.

[Tim1966]

Buffpuff - have a look at this thread. It has a good run down of how to win the scenario. even using these tactics there's a bit of luck involved but I basically used similar tactics and got a minor victory.

H1nd - I think you are spot on with your assessment

[cjslax6]

I'm replaying through Badlands at the moment, with 3 hours. I tell you something, 3 hour missions are a good idea. Gives you plenty of time to plan a strategy plus you can ceasefire at any time without consequence providing you hit the targets. I like it.

I was winning about 50% of the missions until I got to Bloody Aalst. Great mission but has anybody managed a win yet? You have to fight for every inch. It's crazy and costly. Just wondering if this one is winnable - will have to ask PT.

SPOILER ALERT!

I actually got a German surrender. Lost one tank to the 88s on the right and then exclusively pushed left through the field. Lots of breaching charges and tank fire in windows enabled me to get my men into the town. We took the church and my FO ended up calling arty down on each 88 and I blew the heck out of the further back objective.

[phil stanbridge]

SPOILER ALERT!

I actually got a German surrender. Lost one tank to the 88s on the right and then exclusively pushed left through the field. Lots of breaching charges and tank fire in windows enabled me to get my men into the town. We took the church and my FO ended up calling arty down on each 88 and I blew the heck out of the further back objective.

That's a really good plan. Unfortunately for me, I went down the left flank but didn't scout the right flank effectively. I sent a Dingo, a sniper team and a jeep with a command squad (for artillery purposes) through the wood on the right side - but I lost the Dingo to a mine, the jeep got taken out by something else (probably an 88) and the Sniper team sat there ineffective for most of the mission. A major problem for me was the lack of infantry support on my side. I had taken a *lot* of casualties in the other missions and even with apparent resupply (which I'm pretty sure didn't happen due to spaces in my squads) I just didn't have enough platoons. I tried to keep two more or less full-strength platoons back knowing that I would need them in the town, but I just couldn't get enough men forward to exploit the advance. I eventually broke through using similar tactics you described but it cost me dearly. You live and learn!

I've decided to restart the entire campaign as I want to be far more cautious with my men this time round. By the time I got kicked out last time I had taken 700 casualties! I also had no luck at all with air support, so I will endeavour to be more productive with it this time.

I *think* I was fairly close to a win, but not close enough The mission or three afterwards were difficult to hell and back. One was a defensive mission with 12 men. yes, 12 due to my inability to keep them alive. The next one I believe was an epic uber defensive mission on a beautiful map (towards the end of the campaign). The one with 3 panthers. Turning back the Tide I believe. Well that is a fab mission too, but boy, you need lots of men!

[Pak40]

With this campaign I've taken some lumps here and there but I thought I was doing well until I hit the Lock Bridge scenario. And it was there that I have hit the proverbial brick wall. ** SPOILER ALERT **

**SPOILER ALERT**

I got absolutely shredded in the Lock Bridge scenario as well. My tactics were to use the 40 rounds of 81mm on the Pak and then assault with the 2nd platoon which had run up the left side of the map and then along the canal towards the bunker. I used my MMG to constantly fire .30 at the bunker for about 15 turns until it ran out of ammo. It hardly suppressed the bunker by the time my platoon assaulted it - they got cut up real good. The 81mm did not knock out the Pak but I think a subsequent 60mm mortar did. Anyway, I was able to get a few rag tag shells of units across the bridge (the mg bunker occupants were finally killed). I mounted an attack past the Pak to the small compound that was worth 100 VP, only to find a couple of units still alive in it. I mounted to assaults into it figuring those units had been spooked or broken. Nah, they were just baiting me and slaughtered almost all my remaining men. I finally managed to capture the VP but didn't have any men left to mount a final attack on the trenches beyond. I should have received enough points to win but I forgot to leave a unit in the first 50 VP objective, oh well.

In retrospect I'd change my tactics to smoke the bunker area so that units can get around the wire and across the bridge. The 60mm mortars would be used to suppress the Pak while the chargers were crossing the bridge - or possibly the smoke might help with the crossing. Once all infantry units were across I'd mount the attack up the peninsula. I think it'd still be very tough to achieve a victory.

I'll have to read about this assault to see how historically accurate it was. I think PT probably made it much tougher than it really was.

[Paper Tiger]

Back from holiday in Bali and the computer is back from the workshop where it was getting an upgrade. It seems like there's a bit to deal with here so I'll cover it quickly.

I'll have to read about this assault to see how historically accurate it was. I think PT probably made it much tougher than it really was.

Oh, I'd definitely agree with that. It seems like it was a short, but tough fight for the 2/505. Without the MG bunker, it was a short but easy fight so I stuck with the bunker to represent a good, fixed position that couldn't easily be taken out by the 60mm mortar.

If you guys are having real issues with this mission, here are a few pointers.

Smoke is your friend here. Use it as often as possible to get your guys into good positions before you assault the 'island'

You have plenty of time to do this so don't feel you have to rush at the start. It's better to take some time at the start of the mission to neutralise some of the German units in the trenches. In all my playtesting of this mission, I never lost a single guy to the AT gun. Not one because it is easily spotted and the mortar takes it out quite quickly.

The Germans are not good quality and there is only one MG team. I think you guys are mistaking the 'second MG for the first one in a different AI plan. However, I might be wrong on this as I don't have CMBN installed on my upgraded computer just yet. Later this morning though. They also have low ammo so once things start to go bad for them, they break down quite quickly so the final assault can be a tad anti-climactic if you start slow.

And this is a real SPOILER

The two platoons in this mission are fully refitted before the Hunner Park missions so casualties taken in this mission are not an issue. You're going to lose guys doing this. Remember that I play my own campaigns and I don't particularly enjoy playing overly-difficult missions myself so I've scripted it so that you can lose a few guys here without spoiling the later missions of the campaign.

So did PT use the historical maps in MG?

All the maps in this campaign are historical and of my own creation. I didn't use any of the master maps at all. The maps are authentic and crafted from US maps of Holland from that era as well as looking at Google Earth and elminating any modern buildings from the map. I only used the editor overlay to create the maps for the Heuman Lock bridge and Reithorst missions. The others were all done in the old fashioned way.

After reading this thread, I wondered if the campaign scenario's were as bad as they seemed to be. So I cheated if you like, and loaded the battles without playing them.

I will most probably offend a lot of people, but when I buy a game, I do expect it to be a little fun. Not a murderous, near impossible to win, slaughterhouse. How realistically or historically accurate that slaughterhouse may be.

I play a game to relax and to have fun. But this campaign seems to be, in my opinion, even more frustrating than the bocage struggles. And to be honest? I like to be able to win a game sometimes..

Regarding difficulty, I think I said all that I have to say on this matter in this post.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110311

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not taking your post seriously seeing as how you haven't played any of the missions by your own admission (the highlighted part of your post). As far as I'm aware, I am the only campaign designer in the community or on the team who provides the player with an option to play with extended time limits if he is losing missions. So perhaps your rant would be better directed at some other less sympathetic designers

If you want to lark about with CMBN, please play the QBs. that's what they're for.

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

Well I've read this entire thread and threw myself (again) on the Lock Bridge scenario. The highlights:

- I managed to get my 2 platoons (minus their platoon leaders, attached mortars, and my MMG) up to the left side ditch with what I deem "acceptable" losses (basically they weren't decimated down to like 4 members)

- Again got unlucky with a pre-artillery smoke mission and the smoke missed covering the concrete MG bunker

- My MMG kept constantly hitting the concrete MG bunker. Apparently suppressing the bunker with an MMG just doesn't work. The concrete MG bunker didn't seem to have any issues with firing at my squads rushing across the open left side.

- A 81mm strike ordered on the spotted PAK gun. Made it a linear strike starting at the gun and then extended it 8m to the right to catch an infantry icon spot. Heavy ROF and Maximum duration. I didn't want a cockroach to live through it. The results: The PAK gun survived.

- 60mm strike to the HMG on the 2nd floor of the building next to the PAK gun. Heavy ROF and Maximum duration. I had no misconceptions that the 60mm mortar strike would bring that building down but I sure hoped it would put that HMG hiding or out of action. Mission failed.

- 60mm strike to the building on the north side (if that's not the right direction then it's the building behind where the concrete MG is placed). Heavy ROF and Maximum duration. Again no misconceptions that the strike would bring the building down but I wanted life to be miserable in there. Mission failed!

- So with the mortar strikes on the way and dialing in I hunkered my 2 platoons down and waited. The end result was the PAK gun lived and I wasn't sure of how effective the 60mm strikes did. Either way it was time to take out the bunker and cross the bridge. This time I had a squad get within 20 meters to the left of the bunker just in front of the barbed wire and the boys lobbed nades at the bunker. The Germans got spooked (thankfully) and made a run for it. They got cut to pieces. Phase 1 complete.

- Phase 2. Run like the wind across the bridge. The PAK gun dinged some rounds off the bridge but my squad didn't take a casualty until they crossed the other side of the bridge. And then those 2 buildings I had just shelled the mess out of came to life. With my other platoons pouring constant fire into the closest building I advanced a squad into an assault position. Again the Germans seemed to have the most uncanny luck and were able to fire on my men setting up on the riverbank for their final assault. This was with 5 squads using area target commands and my MMG area targeting this building. I was banging my head against my headset at this point. What am I doing wrong I asked myself. How much more suppression can I get on this thing minus another artillery strike on top of forces I have there.

- But I did manage to clear that building with some casualties. I sent them up to the second floor and my boys took out some of the rage I was feeling by killing everything hiding on the back side of that building and across the ditch bank.

- I looked at the mission clock. I'm at -2:00 in the mission. I'm already past the 25 minute mark and I'm at 27 minutes now. How much time do I have left? Whatever I have left it's not much.

- Feeling the heat on the clock I did something that I KNEW would cause casualties. I sent two platoons at a quick movement to cross the bridge and to go straight for the trench line closest to the next building.

- A minute later I have some casualties from the HMG in that building and the PAK gun got some of them when they were crossing. My boys who cleared the first building are pouring as much lead as they can into the MMG position with area fire.

- I assault the back side of the building and catch a squad of Germans trying to leave but I make it inside the first building by the end of the turn.

- Time runs out. The next building in front of me has that pesky HMG along with the HQ on the first floor. I've denied them total control of this area. But deny is good in my book. That's 100 VPS they can't have. I may not get it either but the Germans don't have it. I have the lock portion (50 VPS). The Germans don't have control of the middle building but they do have the last VPS location. The end result: US Tactical Defeat. 81 men OK 5 dead and 7 wounded. (Or something close to that)

I have never had a scenario frustrate me to this level. You know it's bad when you're cursing and there's not a soul around to hear you. But I was literally cursing this game.

I've had 24 hours to look back at it now. The anger bunnies have gone away. But I just can't shake the feeling that all I needed was more time. I felt like I did everything I possibly could to make the objectives in the time allotted but either I lack the skill to do it or luck was just not with me. It upset me. When I make an error I try my best to learn from it. I like challenging scenarios and I'm not looking for cake walks. If the game was easy then I don't think it would be the game that it is. But I just can't shake the feeling that it's a much more advanced level scenario than I'm capable of (at least at this point). And I felt punished. Punished because I'm not good enough. But again I said to myself "That's war". I don't expect to be a Captain Winters. But I don't expect to be a Lieutenant Dyke who freezes up in open ground and doesn't know what to do next.

So I've taken the tactical defeat and moved on to the next scenario. If this experience has done anything for me it has given me a good perspective as to what I think is enjoyable and what is just mind-numbingly difficult. And on top of that it makes me want to design a campaign more suited for the novice player because this campaign is for the big boys! Again I'm not bad mouthing Paper Tiger. It's a kick butt campaign. But if you don't have the skill level for it (and that would be me!) it'll put a lump in your throat!

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

Back from holiday in Bali and the computer is back from the workshop where it was getting an upgrade. It seems like there's a bit to deal with here so I'll cover it quickly.

Oh, I'd definitely agree with that. It seems like it was a short, but tough fight for the 2/505. Without the MG bunker, it was a short but easy fight so I stuck with the bunker to represent a good, fixed position that couldn't easily be taken out by the 60mm mortar.

If you guys are having real issues with this mission, here are a few pointers.

Smoke is your friend here. Use it as often as possible to get your guys into good positions before you assault the 'island'

You have plenty of time to do this so don't feel you have to rush at the start. It's better to take some time at the start of the mission to neutralise some of the German units in the trenches. In all my playtesting of this mission, I never lost a single guy to the AT gun. Not one because it is easily spotted and the mortar takes it out quite quickly.

The Germans are not good quality and there is only one MG team. I think you guys are mistaking the 'second MG for the first one in a different AI plan. However, I might be wrong on this as I don't have CMBN installed on my upgraded computer just yet. Later this morning though. They also have low ammo so once things start to go bad for them, they break down quite quickly so the final assault can be a tad anti-climactic if you start slow.

And this is a real SPOILER

The two platoons in this mission are fully refitted before the Hunner Park missions so casualties taken in this mission are not an issue. You're going to lose guys doing this. Remember that I play my own campaigns and I don't particularly enjoy playing overly-difficult missions myself so I've scripted it so that you can lose a few guys here without spoiling the later missions of the campaign.

All the maps in this campaign are historical and of my own creation. I didn't use any of the master maps at all. The maps are authentic and crafted from US maps of Holland from that era as well as looking at Google Earth and elminating any modern buildings from the map. I only used the editor overlay to create the maps for the Heuman Lock bridge and Reithorst missions. The others were all done in the old fashioned way.

Regarding difficulty, I think I said all that I have to say on this matter in this post.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110311

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not taking your post seriously seeing as how you haven't played any of the missions by your own admission (the highlighted part of your post). As far as I'm aware, I am the only campaign designer in the community or on the team who provides the player with an option to play with extended time limits if he is losing missions. So perhaps your rant would be better directed at some other less sympathetic designers

If you want to lark about with CMBN, please play the QBs. that's what they're for.

Thanks for the response Tiger. I had typed up my earlier response hours ago before you posted this but hit submit just now seeing as I'm up at 1:30 in the morning (grin).

I felt like I had to rush. 25 minutes isn't a whole lot of time so I went hard and fast out the gate to try and get into a good position. Even wanting to push up and hard it still took time. By the time I got in a position to take out the concrete MG bunker I had 5 minutes left.

You mentioned smoke was your friend but maybe I missed something but what smoke? The 81mm mortar had 4 smoke rounds. Are we talking about mortar smoke or are we talking about the smoke nades the infantry squads carry (I will admit I didn't think about that).

As to the HMG teams either I'm losing my mind or I ran into 2 HMG teams.

I respect the time and effort that you put into this campaign (I wish I had the time and talent to do the same thing). It HAS been fun for me. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here but I felt there just wasn't enough time to accomplish the goals at hand. I may go back and try again!

[Tim1966]

You certainly seem to be unlucky with the PAK gun. I got it with mortars reasonably quickly. Also put loads of MMG fire down on the house, trenches and other buildings. The bunker held out until my troops reached the ditch just below then grenades winkled them out and sub machines guns finished them off.

PT - just read your post re difficulty in games. Very well written and couldn't agree more.

[Myles Keogh]

SPOILER ALERT!

I actually got a German surrender. Lost one tank to the 88s on the right and then exclusively pushed left through the field. Lots of breaching charges and tank fire in windows enabled me to get my men into the town. We took the church and my FO ended up calling arty down on each 88 and I blew the heck out of the further back objective.

I got the same result with Bloody Aalst- total victory due to a German surrender. I didn't even come close to occupying the 3rd objective or exiting anything off the map, but I pounded the hell out of the Germans wherever I came across them. I collapsed buildings onto them and just blew the town to bits.

I played turned-based, elite, and with the normal 1 hour and forty minute time limit.

SPOILERS:

It was without question my favorite mission of the campaign. Watching three story buildings collapse under heavy artillery, intense city fighting, blasting holes in stuff with engineers, and finding ways to get flank shots on German tank destroyers with my fireflies made this mission a real blast. At one point, I had entire platoon and 3-4 tanks blasting the church tower trying to get just one stubborn fallschirmjaeger who had shot the scout that I had earlier sent up the tower. (I really have come to dread the sound of the MP40!)

I also really enjoyed Papenberg where you have two platoons of All-Americans fighting a delaying action against a very large German force. At one point my right flank was entirely dependent upon one machine gun team- my Market-Garden version of Pvt. Mellish and Cpl. Henderson.

This is a superlative campaign!

[Ithikial_AU]

Smoke is your friend here. Use it as often as possible to get your guys into good positions before you assault the 'island'

Is this the 'Lock Bridge' Scenario? What smoke? 60mm mortars only have 20 HE rounds a piece. 81mm has some HE? Not seeing a lot of smoke rounds? Especially not for multiple missions.

Four Attempts and four complete failures so far. As much covering fire as I can muster isn't enough to pin down the bunker nor the squads/HMG team in the buildings behind the canal.

[Paper Tiger]

Is this the 'Lock Bridge' Scenario? What smoke? 60mm mortars only have 20 HE rounds a piece. 81mm has some HE? Not seeing a lot of smoke rounds? Especially not for multiple missions.

Four Attempts and four complete failures so far. As much covering fire as I can muster isn't enough to pin down the bunker nor the squads/HMG team in the buildings behind the canal.

You have enough artillery-delivered smoke to lay down a smoke screen to cover your initial advance and then your forward deployed platoon can use infantry-delivered smoke canisters to cover the advance of the fire base team.

It's a bit hard to predict what a player will bring to this mission as it is the 2/505's second outing and there is no refit between the two missions. At full strength, the US paras have plenty of firepower to overwhelm the defenders. If you've lost a MG team or two, it might be tough going.

[Ithikial_AU]

You have enough artillery-delivered smoke to lay down a smoke screen to cover your initial advance and then your forward deployed platoon can use infantry-delivered smoke canisters to cover the advance of the fire base team.

Was a little while ago so maybe used the mortar smoke rounds in a previous mission. If the 81mm mortar is a carried over asset then yes very likely. Oh crap....