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para

While we are waiting

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See, democracy may be bad, but it stopped stupidity this time!

Could not have been happier..can't believe they tried to get us to support terrorist's or is that rebels???

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para - I agree mentally ill people should be getting treatment. Do you have laws in place to stop them buying weapons? Checks etc? I do not know all your laws.

Yes. I would suggest you google state gun laws to find the specifics in each US State. The standard firearm purchase form asks many questions about the purchaser's history including mental illness, crime, drugs, etc. If they lie and have no "record" on file they get the gun.

para- Was he mentally ill before the shooting or once they got him to court?

Again if you are deeply interested in the Aurora mass shooting there is volumes of data available for your reading. James Eagan Holmes was mentally ill before his mass shooting.

para - Why have a gun free zone if nobody bothers with checks? Is it just gun free on entering the building, the grounds, the complex???

A gun free zone is an attempt do what many anti gun proponents request, disarm anyone in the gun free zone. Unless TSA like resources $$$, training and standards are applied consistently, gun free zones primarily disarm law abiding citizens who comply with the law. The post Sandy Hook proposals to expand gun free zones would not provide any greater safety. Even crazy people can figure out... a gun free zone... means their mass shooting is not likely to be challenged from the start.

para- Well he managed to kit himself out like Arnie did in Commando..Someone sold him the equipment.

Buying weapons illegally is common in the urban areas of most US cities. You got da $$$ you get the gun(s) no questions asked.

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So this is quite possibly the dumbest attitude towards gun control. Of course more gun control laws would have prevented this or at least lessened the number of dead. The idiot in DC bought his guns legally because of relaxed gun control laws. Had the proper gun laws been enacted to prevent him from buying guns, then the crimes above never would have been committed.

You're right? You cannot be serious. Oh man funny, VERY funny.

And wicky i don't have a problem if the guy has a mental disorder. I worded that wrong if they start mass confiscation of guns then all hell will break loose. But then again the government can easily label anyone as a criminal which gives them justification to start taking guns..

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When I shoot all bullets from my AK, all grape-shot from my shotgun, I give them cold steel!!!

You are ready for the zombie apocalypse.

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Had to interject here....no one is talking to what I believe is the real problem with these mass shootings and it has to do with these brutal first person shooter games. About everyone of these people played these sort of games. The last shooter is said to play them obsessively. All that can do is desensitize someone form killing. Everyone one of these shooters has had this connection.

Now to the other point of the random violence in US streets that mainly takes place in the inner city between black youths...that is a much more complicated issues, that right now goes to the inner city culture...how you change that I have no idea. You could pass every gun law you wanted to and they will find a gun and pray on each other or individuals that don't. That is the rub that changes all the statistics and the arguments. Most of these gun laws would prevent the very people who are not causing any of these problems to not be allowed to own a fire arm. So the people it really effects is the people living in the suburbs away from the inner city culture. So the laws solve nothing except punish the law abiding citizens and takes away the means to protect themselves...

As far as the assault rifle...it comments like 2 percent of all us homicides...so again it goes to the hand gun and the inner city youths, who typically use cheap revolvers.

Lastly...Para...you seem to be baffled as to why americans would fear their government and how you don't...well pick up a history book and take a look at people who have trusted their government in the past. Tell that to the jews in Nazi Germany...or to the people in Cuba when the communist took over, to name a few examples...or the people in other countries who cannot effectively battle their government. One of the things about being an American is that the government works for us and the gun has been a part of that history. Americans have always feared their government or been weary of it. Lastly you stated that the government could crush us...well last I heard the afghans are armed with basically assault rifles and neither, our government, your government nor the russians could beat them...so the rifle still has its place.

I have a carry permit and yes I do carry when I feel that I maybe going to a part of town that would warrant it, but Im a country boy so...im well armed anyway!

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But we're having so much fun! You think Steve is that heartless?

Steve owns a TANK :D The man has heart and heat ;)

I will have to google "concealed tank permit" .. it is possible I suppose :D

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You're right? You cannot be serious. Oh man funny, VERY funny.

And wicky i don't have a problem if the guy has a mental disorder. I worded that wrong if they start mass confiscation of guns then all hell will break loose. But then again the government can easily label anyone as a criminal which gives them justification to start taking guns..

In USSR many people who try resistance to regime was placed in psycho hospitals. They just can say that you are mad man and take your guns officially.

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para - I agree mentally ill people should be getting treatment. Do you have laws in place to stop them buying weapons? Checks etc? I do not know all your laws.

Yes. I would suggest you google state gun laws to find the specifics in each US State. The standard firearm purchase form asks many questions about the purchaser's history including mental illness, crime, drugs, etc. If they lie and have no "record" on file they get the gun.

para- Was he mentally ill before the shooting or once they got him to court?

Again if you are deeply interested in the Aurora mass shooting there is volumes of data available for your reading. James Eagan Holmes was mentally ill before his mass shooting.

para - Why have a gun free zone if nobody bothers with checks? Is it just gun free on entering the building, the grounds, the complex???

A gun free zone is an attempt do what many anti gun proponents request, disarm anyone in the gun free zone. Unless TSA like resources $$$, training and standards are applied consistently, gun free zones primarily disarm law abiding citizens who comply with the law. The post Sandy Hook proposals to expand gun free zones would not provide any greater safety. Even crazy people can figure out... a gun free zone... means their mass shooting is not likely to be challenged from the start.

para- Well he managed to kit himself out like Arnie did in Commando..Someone sold him the equipment.

Buying weapons illegally is common in the urban areas of most US cities. You got da $$$ you get the gun(s) no questions asked.

Ok a quick look and i found this...

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — Accused Aurora shooter James Holmes legally bought thousands of bullets, explosives chemicals and four guns months before prosecutors say he opened fire on a crowded movie theater, an ATF agent testified today.

The agent testified on the second day of a preliminary hearing, which is essentially a mini-trial as prosecutors present witness testimony and evidence to outline their case against the former neuroscience student.

Agent Steve Beggs gave the prosecution a timeline that showed Holmes started his buying spree on May 10, 2012 with the online purchase of tear gas grenades. From then until July 14, Beggs testified, Holmes legally bought nearly 6,300 rounds of ammunition, two Glock .40 caliber pistols, a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, a 12-guage shotgun, ballistic protection clothing, beam laser lights, bomb-making material and handcuffs. Some of the purchases were made online and some were made in person.

online purchases!!!

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"could it be that the way the mentally instable/eerily frustrated are being treated, differs significantly?"

Why are you grasping at straws?

The murder rate in all of western, northern, and southern Europe, excluding Russia and eastern, is 1.0 to 1.5 per 100,000 people per year.

The murder rate in Africa other than northern, is 20-28 per year.

The murder rate in central and south America is also 20-30 per year.

1/4 of the population of the US is from those regions.

The US murder rate is 5 per 100,000 population. The murder rate of the US white population is the same as western Europe.

Murder is an activity of young men. It is practically unknown before sexual maturity. It is 10 times less common among women. It declines dramatically with age after 35 and by extreme amounts after age 50.

This pattern of physical aggression is seen in every social mammal - restricted to males and peaking soon after sexual maturity. The greatest levels of aggression are shown by a small minority of all populations in all cases.

We know precisely what causes human aggression because we can track its prevalence. It is a natural behavior of sexual competition. Young males compete for social dominance; they naturally resort to aggression against others, especially other young males, in that process.

We can socialize some of that away. We cannot socialize all of it away. Different cultures and human groups show very different levels of such aggression. Not 5% differences, differences of more than an order of magnitude. There is no mystery about it whatever.

All there is, is political ideology preventing people from facing those brute facts of human nature.

The reason the murder rate in the US is higher than it is in western Europe has nothing to do with your laws or ours, your weapons or ours, your medical systems or ours. It is purely a function of your people and ours. Different people, different outcomes. Entirely predictably. People of the same background in Europe and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality. People of the same background in Latin America and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality - actually, lower by half or more in the US, but from that baseline.

All there is to it, I am afraid.

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"could it be that the way the mentally instable/eerily frustrated are being treated, differs significantly?"

Why are you grasping at straws?

The murder rate in all of western, northern, and southern Europe, excluding Russia and eastern, is 1.0 to 1.5 per 100,000 people per year.

The murder rate in Africa other than northern, is 20-28 per year.

The murder rate in central and south America is also 20-30 per year.

1/4 of the population of the US is from those regions.

The US murder rate is 5 per 100,000 population. The murder rate of the US white population is the same as western Europe.

Murder is an activity of young men. It is practically unknown before sexual maturity. It is 10 times less common among women. It declines dramatically with age after 35 and by extreme amounts after age 50.

This pattern of physical aggression is seen in every social mammal - restricted to males and peaking soon after sexual maturity. The greatest levels of aggression are shown by a small minority of all populations in all cases.

We know precisely what causes human aggression because we can track its prevalence. It is a natural behavior of sexual competition. Young males compete for social dominance; they naturally resort to aggression against others, especially other young males, in that process.

We can socialize some of that away. We cannot socialize all of it away. Different cultures and human groups show very different levels of such aggression. Not 5% differences, differences of more than an order of magnitude. There is no mystery about it whatever.

All there is, is political ideology preventing people from facing those brute facts of human nature.

The reason the murder rate in the US is higher than it is in western Europe has nothing to do with your laws or ours, your weapons or ours, your medical systems or ours. It is purely a function of your people are ours. Different people, different outcomes. Entirely predictably. People of the same background in Europe and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality. People of the same background in Latin America and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality - actually, lower by half or more in the US, but from that baseline.

All there is to it, I am afraid.

JasonC

I know you are very knowledgeable man. So please do not take this the wrong way. Are you saying that it is an ethnicity/race thing?

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Ok a quick look and i found this...

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — Accused Aurora shooter James Holmes legally bought thousands of bullets, explosives chemicals and four guns months before prosecutors say he opened fire on a crowded movie theater, an ATF agent testified today.

The agent testified on the second day of a preliminary hearing, which is essentially a mini-trial as prosecutors present witness testimony and evidence to outline their case against the former neuroscience student.

Agent Steve Beggs gave the prosecution a timeline that showed Holmes started his buying spree on May 10, 2012 with the online purchase of tear gas grenades. From then until July 14, Beggs testified, Holmes legally bought nearly 6,300 rounds of ammunition, two Glock .40 caliber pistols, a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, a 12-guage shotgun, ballistic protection clothing, beam laser lights, bomb-making material and handcuffs. Some of the purchases were made online and some were made in person.

online purchases!!!

Wrong..

para- an "online purchase" of any firearm must be received from a FFL dealer who must comply with Federal and State laws. Holmes buying spree weapons must have complied with the above. Some FFL dealer had to follow the laws for Holmes to get the weapons so portraying this as "online purchases!!!" is incorrect.

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"could it be that the way the mentally instable/eerily frustrated are being treated, differs significantly?"

Why are you grasping at straws?

The murder rate in all of western, northern, and southern Europe, excluding Russia and eastern, is 1.0 to 1.5 per 100,000 people per year.

The murder rate in Africa other than northern, is 20-28 per year.

The murder rate in central and south America is also 20-30 per year.

1/4 of the population of the US is from those regions.

The US murder rate is 5 per 100,000 population. The murder rate of the US white population is the same as western Europe.

Murder is an activity of young men. It is practically unknown before sexual maturity. It is 10 times less common among women. It declines dramatically with age after 35 and by extreme amounts after age 50.

This pattern of physical aggression is seen in every social mammal - restricted to males and peaking soon after sexual maturity. The greatest levels of aggression are shown by a small minority of all populations in all cases.

We know precisely what causes human aggression because we can track its prevalence. It is a natural behavior of sexual competition. Young males compete for social dominance; they naturally resort to aggression against others, especially other young males, in that process.

We can socialize some of that away. We cannot socialize all of it away. Different cultures and human groups show very different levels of such aggression. Not 5% differences, differences of more than an order of magnitude. There is no mystery about it whatever.

All there is, is political ideology preventing people from facing those brute facts of human nature.

The reason the murder rate in the US is higher than it is in western Europe has nothing to do with your laws or ours, your weapons or ours, your medical systems or ours. It is purely a function of your people are ours. Different people, different outcomes. Entirely predictably. People of the same background in Europe and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality. People of the same background in Latin America and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality - actually, lower by half or more in the US, but from that baseline.

All there is to it, I am afraid.

I thought we were talking about the mass-shootings, not your "ordinary" murders, but those where the killer has this urge to take lots of people with him. Those un-mistakenly happen more often in the USA than anywhere else.

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Wrong..

para- an "online purchase" of any firearm must be received from a FFL dealer who must comply with Federal and State laws. Holmes buying spree weapons must have complied with the above. Some FFL dealer had to follow the laws for Holmes to get the weapons so portraying this as "online purchases!!!" is incorrect.

I am not portraying it as anything. I just saw that it said he purchased some of them online. re-read the quote yourself. I was also stating that appears(actually not appeared, he did buy them legally) to have got all these goodies legally

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — Accused Aurora shooter James Holmes legally bought thousands of bullets, explosives chemicals and four guns months before prosecutors say he opened fire on a crowded movie theater, an ATF agent testified today.

The agent testified on the second day of a preliminary hearing, which is essentially a mini-trial as prosecutors present witness testimony and evidence to outline their case against the former neuroscience student.

Agent Steve Beggs gave the prosecution a timeline that showed Holmes started his buying spree on May 10, 2012 with the online purchase of tear gas grenades. From then until July 14, Beggs testified, Holmes legally bought nearly 6,300 rounds of ammunition, two Glock .40 caliber pistols, a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, a 12-guage shotgun, ballistic protection clothing, beam laser lights, bomb-making material and handcuffs. Some of the purchases were made online and some were made in person.

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"could it be that the way the mentally instable/eerily frustrated are being treated, differs significantly?"

Why are you grasping at straws?

The murder rate in all of western, northern, and southern Europe, excluding Russia and eastern, is 1.0 to 1.5 per 100,000 people per year.

The murder rate in Africa other than northern, is 20-28 per year.

The murder rate in central and south America is also 20-30 per year.

1/4 of the population of the US is from those regions.

The US murder rate is 5 per 100,000 population. The murder rate of the US white population is the same as western Europe.

Murder is an activity of young men. It is practically unknown before sexual maturity. It is 10 times less common among women. It declines dramatically with age after 35 and by extreme amounts after age 50.

This pattern of physical aggression is seen in every social mammal - restricted to males and peaking soon after sexual maturity. The greatest levels of aggression are shown by a small minority of all populations in all cases.

We know precisely what causes human aggression because we can track its prevalence. It is a natural behavior of sexual competition. Young males compete for social dominance; they naturally resort to aggression against others, especially other young males, in that process.

We can socialize some of that away. We cannot socialize all of it away. Different cultures and human groups show very different levels of such aggression. Not 5% differences, differences of more than an order of magnitude. There is no mystery about it whatever.

All there is, is political ideology preventing people from facing those brute facts of human nature.

The reason the murder rate in the US is higher than it is in western Europe has nothing to do with your laws or ours, your weapons or ours, your medical systems or ours. It is purely a function of your people are ours. Different people, different outcomes. Entirely predictably. People of the same background in Europe and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality. People of the same background in Latin America and the US have the same patterns of aggression and criminality - actually, lower by half or more in the US, but from that baseline.

All there is to it, I am afraid.

Something important you left out: the living standard in Africa and South America is significantly worse than in western Europe or the US. IMO the amount of violent crimes within comparable populations is directly connected to poverty and lack of education & perspectives. In a society that offers alternatives to its people to compete in other ways than by physical violence, lets say by economical success, violent crimes occur much less often than in societys where people have little to no chance to have a life without poverty.

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I am not portraying it as anything. I just saw that it said he purchased some of them online. re-read the quote yourself.

Then I am happy to clarify the law and your reading of the quote.

To be clear for folks not in the USA... you can order a weapon online but it must be shipped to a FFL dealer and all Federal and Stare laws apply upon purchase .. in person.. at the FFL Dealer.

Not all FFL dealers will handle these transactions.... but NO ONE can buy guns online shipped to their house in the USA.

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Ok that's cleared that up. Would you also agree that this guy got all his stuff(6,300 rounds of ammunition, two Glock .40 caliber pistols, a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, a 12-guage shotgun, ballistic protection clothing, beam laser lights, bomb-making material,tear gas grenades and handcuffs) legally?

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Right I'm off..several Breaking Bad episodes to watch :) Want to see what's in store for Walter.

If i have upset anyone please accept my apologies. No offence was intended in any of my replies.

To BFC i say release MG now

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