BATTLE DRILL - A CM Tactics Blog

[Vanir Ausf B]

Can a scenario made with 2.10 be loaded into a 1.xx version? If they can't then the ones Bil has already done would have to be remade from scratch.

[A Canadian Cat]

I am pretty sure they cannot. Yes, clearly changing this would be work. And given that this is all done out the kindness of his heart expecting that work is not really reasonable. I was thinking more of future work.

[pnzrldr]

Bil - your scenarios for these probs are rudimentary enough. You should solicit a volunteer (not me) to backwards convert them. I bet someone would pony up. I will be busy visiting tank factories and such <sigh!> It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it... after our government rediscovers it has perpetual income that is.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

[Michael Emrys]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Haven't had time to get around to it yet, but it's been on my mind. I'm curious to try it out.

Michael

[tpinguet]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

I've had a chance to try out both scenarios in MG. I'm fairly new to CM and have not been achieving very good results so far against the AI, so this comes at the right time. The pre-reading was excellent, though I found it most helpful for the infantry squad attack, where I scored a total victory with 0 losses on the first try - not something I've seen too often yet :-). Applying that in a larger scenario will be extremely useful.

The tank section attack scenario, however, is giving me fits. In two plays so far I have only managed a victory on the 2nd try, and both times I quickly lost at least one tank from section 1 in the woods trying to keep suppressive fire on the AT gun in the woods at E. There is no hull down position that I can find in the woods at A. What do you suggest there? I did not find anything in your pre-reading that seemed to apply specifically to this situation. I will keep the rest of my questions for now as they deal with events happening later in the scenario that I don't want to spoil at this time.

Thanks for putting this incredible resource together and looking forward to the next installments!

Thierry

[A Canadian Cat]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

Yeah, not sure if it will do much good for me - because now I have seen everything. I am trying to help a friend along so I just cracked open your scenario in the editor took some screen shots and hope to recreate it with 2.01 so he can play it and get the benefit.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Paul]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

Your reading material is very informative and well organized. Using your instructions, it become easy to win the infantry scenario with 1-2 losses. However, the tank scenario is impossible due to very poor spotting from the tanks as they have it now. Even after AT gun fired up to four times at my tanks, it never become visible. After I flanked the AT gun position with my other two tanks and parked right next to the woods, still did not see it. Then I got mad and drove one of my tanks unbuttoned into the middle of the wood and then I finally saw it 5m away. Scratch one tank.

[BletchleyGeek]

Bil,

what's the victory level to pass?

The texts (in the blog and the scenario itself) are very clear and informative. They are also concise, which is good as well Maybe it would be good to devote some space (in the blog) to how important is to keep pouring fire continuous manner on an enemy position while on the attack. And how that requirement constraints the decision making (i.e. you have to position the fire support elements so that they have both good lines of fire and are in cover).

On my first run on the Infantry Squad Attack exercise I lost too many men because I failed to make sure that the fire support elements could actually fire on the enemy position...

[Vanir Ausf B]

... thereby turning them into moral support elements.

[Michael Emrys]

Just finished the squad attack in which I achieved a minor victory in the last minute. I had one killed, one wounded, and one died of wounds. The enemy lost three dead and three wounded. I was delayed by two things: One was that it took almost fifteen minutes to maneuver into position to take out the first outpost. The other is that I lost at least three minutes by accidentally clicking twice at the ends of turns. Seems my new mouse is a mite sensitive...

Now to try the armored attack.

Michael

[BletchleyGeek]

... thereby turning them into moral support elements.

Nice one

[owenjones]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

Hey Bil, just found the time to try the Infantry Attack Drill, got a Tactical Victory on my 1st attempt with 2 KIA when my scout team got attacked by the HQ element. I actually faired better than I was expecting, I guess I have a decent grasp of the Find Fix Flank Fire concept.

One issue I have, in general and related to the various methods of Overwatch you describe is the timing of my various elements. Despite whatever pauses I give them they always seem to be moving at once and never in a cohesive Overwatch + Covering Fire / Maneuver organized fashion.

Do you have any rules of thumb or advice related to how to get this timing down? Or is it purely practice / feel for the game?

I'll attempt the Armor drill and let you know.

Thanks!

Owen

[Bil Hardenberger]

One issue I have, in general and related to the various methods of Overwatch you describe is the timing of my various elements. Despite whatever pauses I give them they always seem to be moving at once and never in a cohesive Overwatch + Covering Fire / Maneuver organized fashion.

Do you have any rules of thumb or advice related to how to get this timing down? Or is it purely practice / feel for the game?

Thanks!

Owen

Owen, yeah you need to practice it to really get a good feeling for the timing... but basically if you are trying to use bounding overwatch make sure you move your teams in short bounds (less than 50m), pause 15-20 seconds before moving the other team to its next position.

If you have to, take your time and only move one team per turn.. your advance will be very slow, but at least you will be certain your overwatch will be effective.

Bil

[db_zero]

I downloaded and tried the Infantry Squad Attack in MG. Very well done on all levels and very highly recommended. I'll try out the Tank Section Attack soon.

This should be integrated into the game as part of the basic training.

[Rake]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

Bil,

Many thanks for your time in posting the blog, scenarios and AAR's. I've finished the infantry scenario; it was pretty straight forward...

SPOILERS

Total victory with 6 German dead and the other one wounded. I used traveling overwatch until I cleared the corner at the base of the hill below the US setup area. From there, it was bounding overwatch (alternating) until the MG HQ unit opened fire. Once I had an area spot (I never had a confirmed spot until the team routed), I used area fire with all three teams to pin these defenders. Still using bounding movement, I sent the scouts across the creek, followed by the assault team and finally the BAR team. No more than one team moved at a time while the rest poured covering fire into the foxholes.

Once it became obvious that there was no further resistance from the HQ team, the scouts and assault teams slipped back across the stream and took up positions on the hillside below the LMG team. The BAR team circled around and came up the back side of Hill C. Once they were in position, and with the US HQ team having a spot on the LMG, it was a simple matter to pin the mg... the scouts and assault team hunted to within 30 meters and finished them off with grenades. I think this was the biggest thing that I learned from this, to stop with a los inside of 30 meters to let the squad use their grenades.

I'm looking forward to the Tank section scenario. I don't expect this to be quite as easy for me... my armor tactics lag far behind my infantry skills. I hope to learn a lot! Thanks again!

[Lethaface]

Cheers for all of this!

[Lethaface]

Feedback: Tried and completed the inf scenario, will look at the tank version soon. Reading your guides sure did help to consciously apply tactics. I guess using some sort of bounding and overwatch comes naturally, but now I know the difference between alternating/successive overwatch and I learned about the travelling overwatch concept.

[Buzz]

Has anybody had a chance to try these yet in MG? If so please post your results and if possible whether the pre-reading helped in any way.

Cheers, Bil

Pre-reading your guidance helped Bil.

Thanks for the references: FM7-10_Rifle_Company-44.pdf, chapter 6.

Played Elite RT and one US KIA. Points 145 to 8.

Will follow and play through your clearly illustrate and helpful CMTP site.

Thanks

[Manx]

Nice Bil, very nice indeed. Thanks for the time and effort you've put into this.

[A Canadian Cat]

I finally played this, I think it is a useful exercise. I created a version in 2.01 so it might be a bit different. I managed a minor victory and lost 5 guys playing it like I did not know where the enemy was.

[Hister]

Played infantry scenario - this small scale combat is really immersive 'cos it hurts so much when you lose someone. I got 2 guys injured due to long range enemy fire and 1 guy dead due to hand grenade landing just enxt to him (yeah, didn't manage to surpress enemy enough before I closed in).

Thank you for this and again I hope Battlefront includes these kind of basic missions as a default training option for new players.

[Vencini]

Thanks for your blog.Very useful.

Can we play the armor scenario in latest version?

I have problems with hulldown position.And I have some questions:

1) I try to use infantry to be the "eyes" of armored forces,but sometimes,the HQ for infantry and armor are not in the same chain of command.Will infantry HQ and armor HQ share information even if they are not of the same chain of command?The time for sharing information increases,if they are not in the same C2?

2)I know where an enemy armor is.I move my tank to hulldown position.I check from enemy armor position.I see the turret of my tank.Fine.It is suposed that I'm in hulldown but my tank doesn't fire.I wait some minutes but nothing happens.

3)The tank I'm trying to catch.Spots me.Fires and destroy my tank.Doesn't LOS or LOF work in both senses?If he can see me, It is not supposed I can see him too?

4)I try not to open up the tank commander to have better spotting. I'm cursed with a lot of damnations:

- My tanks never spots first,they miss their first shot,but they get always killed from the first shot of the enemy.

-Enemy usually doesn't get killed with one of my shots.They move and fire,even after several hits.My tank explodes at first hit.

-HQ,section leaders or tank commanders get killed the first. And I don't want to continue and be boring...

So, in conclusion. Could you sir create an scenario to understand how hulldown work? Could some one help with a link to a tread (I did a research but nothing clarifiyng)or explain how this works?(some pics will be great)I read In page 47 of manual it says"if only a part of a vehicle is visible,then only that part can be hit by direct fire"

Understand me,I read the forum,the manual's instructions,I think I have an optimal knowledge about how it works.But when I try "deliberately" to put in action the hulldown's tactic I get my ass kicked.

Some extra request:scenarios for forest, urban, etc... fights

Thanks and sorry for my english.

Regards

[A Canadian Cat]

Can we play the armor scenario in latest version?

I played it when 2.1 came out so I am sure it works with the patches too. I do need to revisit it because I did not do well on my first go through.

2)I know where an enemy armor is.I move my tank to hulldown position.I check from enemy armor position.I see the turret of my tank.Fine.It is suposed that I'm in hulldown but my tank doesn't fire.I wait some minutes but nothing happens.

Sometimes you can get a situation where the tank commander can see the enemy but the gunner cannot. In that case your tankers will watch the enemy tank but never fire. Use the target line to test things. When you use the target command and select the enemy tank if the line is:

1. light blue -> your men should be able to fire
   
2. grey -> someone in the tank can see the enemy but the main gun's line of fire is blocked
   
3. dark blue with pink -> your tank cannot properly see the enemy
   

I have a case in a game right now where my tank has just moved into position and I get the dark blue no LOS target line when I point at the enemy, even though they clearly can see it because the enemy tank model is there when I have my tank selected. I think that means that they saw the tank as they were moving into position but now that they are in cover they just lost sight of it.

So, once you have a situation where your tank is not firing and you think it should be use the target command to check the LOS LOF to the enemy tank. Hopefully it will help explain why your tankers are not firing.

3)The tank I'm trying to catch.Spots me.Fires and destroy my tank.Doesn't LOS or LOF work in both senses?If he can see me, It is not supposed I can see him too?

Well yes and no. If you can see the enemy then there is a chance he can see you but there no *guarantee* that he has actually spotted you. If one party is in the open and the other is hidden in the forest as long as the people in the forest can see out they have a much easier time spotting the person in the open than visa versa. And even two people in the open might not *notice* each other because they are looking somewhere else or otherwise occupied.

The game takes all this into account so you can often have two units that have LOS to each other but one notices the other first. Most of the time this is just "one of those things".

Sticking with tanks for the moment and since we do not have a specific example I'll make one up. Your buttoned tank is waiting in a defensive position behind a rise in the terrain facing towards where you expect the enemy to be. So your gunner has a pretty good view forward and your commander has a bit more of a range of view. The enemy tank approaches from a direction a bit off where you expected them to becoming and are traveling directly towards where your tank is positioned. If the angle is large enough your gunner, who is facing forward, cannot see where the enemy tank is. That means you now only have one person, the tank commander who could possibly see the enemy approaching. Even though the enemy tank is in the open your tank commander will not automatically see it. Remember he has to look through vision ports in various directions because he does not know where the enemy tanks might come from. He even has to check behind from time to time just to be sure.

Now the enemy tank in the above scenario has all five crew looking for threats. All five of them have some reasonable view forward and the commander has more flexibility. As they round the corner and start moving through the field all five of the crew are looking in the direction your tank is relative to them. While is is true that your tank is partially hidden from view they have five people who could potentially spot your tank and you only have one that could spot them.

Totally made up and totally fictitious situation to make the point but the game is considering all those variables and probably even more (for example I did not even mention crew experience and motivation). But it illustrates how even though you think you have an advantage, depending on what the enemy does, you may not.

[Vencini]

Thanks Ian.Leslie, help much appreciated.So tank commander gives LOS but we have to get LOF with the gunner. I played the Devon's training scenario (the one with the artillery and tanks) and hunt command with cover arcs works really fine,to get hulldown's position.Even they find automatically unbelievable hulldown's positions.But when I try to reproduce it manually (to not go too far with the "hunt"command and get killed)it's really difficult...Sometimes I get too exposed.Sometimes I can't fire...

Best regards