Bil Hardenberger Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 Looking forward to another excellent presentation/preview Bil. I have to say though that I find the objective placement for a ME rather odd on this map. I read an earlier post where you said there are objectives on the allied side, but I still am only seeing objectives on your side besides the one on the edge. At any rate I am sure it will be an entertaining fight to read with the morning cup of joe. Yes check Ken's AAR, I'm sure he showed his objectives.. he should have three road intersection objectives (all the same objective really) on his side of the map... if he doesn't then something is wrong. As I said earlier I meant for those objectives to be the enemy's.. so he would have intersection objectives on my side of the map and I would have them on his... but I goofed when setting up the objectives, obviously. The town center objective that is near my setup area I am ignoring as if it didn't exist.. another error on my part in my rush to get this AAR going, must have been an errant mouse click. So to wrap it up.. we each have road intersection objectives that only we can see.. we BOTH have the town center objective to capture.. the only one I will fight over is the one in the town itself, the other I will not occupy and will avoid like it is a body of water. All clear now? Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Looking forward to another excellent presentation/preview Bil. I have to say though that I find the objective placement for a ME rather odd on this map. I read an earlier post where you said there are objectives on the allied side, but I still am only seeing objectives on your side besides the one on the edge. At any rate I am sure it will be an entertaining fight to read with the morning cup of joe. I get the feeling from Bil that his interest in objectives amounts to "Oh look, there is a town over there that I'm supposed to take... Maby I should go there once i kill all these germans." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 I get the feeling from Bil that his interest in objectives amounts to "Oh look, there is a town over there that I'm supposed to take... Maby I should go there once i kill all these germans." Well.. seeing as I'm the Germans, killing the Germans would not be the way to victory in this particular game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I'd say this is more like a Chess Grandmaster trying to play against the aforementioned Viking Berserker. First thing to happen is that the chess table gets kicked out of the way, pieces flying. Then the axe is introduced. Sounds like the story of Ulf Jarl´s death - back in the viking times here in Denmark. On new years eve 1026 he played chess with king Knud the Great (he is the one you english know as king Canute), when they began to quarrel. Ulf left the king´s house in anger - and Knud had him killed (by sword, not axe) - in the church! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Well.. seeing as I'm the Germans, killing the Germans would not be the way to victory in this particular game. Oh poop... I keep mixing the two threads up :/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Yes check Ken's AAR, I'm sure he showed his objectives.. he should have three road intersection objectives (all the same objective really) on his side of the map... if he doesn't then something is wrong. As I said earlier I meant for those objectives to be the enemy's.. so he would have intersection objectives on my side of the map and I would have them on his... but I goofed when setting up the objectives, obviously. The town center objective that is near my setup area I am ignoring as if it didn't exist.. another error on my part in my rush to get this AAR going, must have been an errant mouse click. So to wrap it up.. we each have road intersection objectives that only we can see.. we BOTH have the town center objective to capture.. the only one I will fight over is the one in the town itself, the other I will not occupy and will avoid like it is a body of water. All clear now? Bil Yeah, the objectives are obviously off as there are no intersection objectives on his side for you to capture. Both views show 3 intersection objectives your side, and the town objective in the middle on the edge. As long as you and Ken are fine with the objectives that is the important thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 I didn't know that... wonder how that happened.. hmmm. I'll send Ken an email and see what we can come up with. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 Okay I talked it over with Ken and we decided to just press ahead with the objectives as they currently sit. He wants to come over to my side and have tea or something like that.. so asked me to reserve a table at each of those intersections for him. So sorry for the hiccup on the objectives.. but we are here to try to give a good show and show off what the game has to offer, it'll all sort itself out in the end. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Okay, after "walking the ground" I have pretty much ruled out Option 2 from the options Ken's tanks have, that option is full of risks and unknowns for him. I think they are after 1/10 that is rushing across the field toward the town (Option 1). Unfortunately there is precious little I can do about it for a few turns. So I have my one major asset, the Wirblewind, moving forward slightly to get a view on the ridge where I would go hull down if I was commanding his armor... this ridge gives him a commanding view over the field leading up to the town. I am using the Wirblewind here, carefully I might add.. for two reasons, 1. It is here... and 2. I want to see the damned thing fire at something! I think what might be developing is a battle for the center... I have a good force for a long range fight... but I don't know what he has available so I have to be very careful. I am setting up one pz section in an overwatch position over where his tanks must exit if he does in fact choose option 2... they can also see somewhat into the appraches into the town. The other pz section is rushing forward, not to engage his Cromwells, but to take up positions and be in position to react to events. Elsewhere I am moving a few squads out on recon duty to get some better visibility over the areas of the map that I am a tad blind on right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLS Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Bil, A lot has been told on the quality of your AARs and game play. And I can only subscribe!! Maybe you may want to give or share more details with us on some game mechanics. i.e explain the orders combination for your machine gun team in the windmill (screen in your post #84). and/or how you determine firing arcs, etc. I know you already gave such info, but we would be glad to discuss t with you or learn "how to". many thanks again for your great job FLS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 FLS, well I will do what I can to better describe what I'm doing. I appreciate the interest and am happy that you are enjoying the AAR. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 I had one halftrack with a squad in the middle of the open area between the windmill area and the town... in the eventuality that Ken did in fact take Option 1 with his Cromwells I halted this vehicle and dismounted the squad. I would rather lose the halftrack than the squad. It didn't take long once Ken's tanks were in position to knock out the halftrack... at least the squad was unspotted and thus unharmed. I now have this unit (two squads and the Platoon HQ) out on a limb and in a very fragile position.. nice going there Bil. But this presents me with an opportunity as well... time will tell whether I can capitalize on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Nice damage limitation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I've been playing way too much Dota 2 since my first thought about Ken getting First Blood was "Well now he's going to get a gold and XP lead in mid and TP gank top/bot or push the tower" Loving the illustrations and war movie mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJR144 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Very nice and quick response, but I see disaster looming! Can I ask you a tactical question without spoiling anything? To me it seems, the enemy tank in the dunes is more or less paralysing the development on the left now. Correct? Using the Wirbelwind is probably cool, but probably also a very short fun against such a tank. I guess in reality you would never ever do that if there are alternatives available, wouldn't you? It's a quite suicidal move and maybe you decided for it only for a good show for the audience, but it probably will cost you your best weapon against enemy infantry without gaining anything positive from it. My question: Why don't/didn't you move PzSectn.2 right of PzSectn.1 and then attack with 4 tanks simultaneously the dunes? The WW could play the perfect bait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Time for a Panther to show up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Very nice and quick response, but I see disaster looming! Can I ask you a tactical question without spoiling anything? To me it seems, the enemy tank in the dunes is more or less paralysing the development on the left now. Correct? Using the Wirbelwind is probably cool, but probably also a very short fun against such a tank. I guess in reality you would never ever do that if there are alternatives available, wouldn't you? It's a quite suicidal move and maybe you decided for it only for a good show for the audience, but it probably will cost you your best weapon against enemy infantry without gaining anything positive from it. The Wirblewind was a calculated risk... it was only in place where a tank could see it for 20 seconds... and was moving off that spot before the tanks really were emplaced. It did not fire, and no harm done. My question: Why don't/didn't you move PzSectn.2 right of PzSectn.1 and then attack with 4 tanks simultaneously the dunes? The WW could play the perfect bait. Well I have Pz Section 1 providing overwatch on the approach to the town and I do not want to ignore that approach.. ...however I do have Pz Section 2 on their way at top speed to cover the Dunes area and hopefully get some firepower on to Ken's tanks.. don't know if they will still be in position or what else might develop while they are making the trek... we'll see. One thing I do not want to do is to start maneuvering solely in reaction to Ken's moves.. that is a perfect example of him being inside my decision cycle and seizing the initiative, basically dictating the flow of the battle. I am still waiting for more intelligence before I really start to commit my forces, but I am moving to assembly positions in advance of that information. Thanks for the questions! Good ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 While Panzer Section 2 moves forward (should be in firing positions next turn), 1st Squad/1st Plt/10 Ko. (1/1/10) retires to its jump off position near the buildings. Now I only have two units stuck forward of the lines, HQ/1/10 and 2/1/10. Check this out.. I had the Wirblewind fire on one of the farm buildings where c3k has some troops holed up... click this link for the video showing both the giving and the receiving of this fire: -- note: if anybody can tell me the code to embed videos in this forum I'd appreciate it. The current situation shows a lot of enemy contacts primarily in the center and my left (opposite the town)... could this mean that Ken is intent on capturing the buildings in the center as his first priority? Or are they simply there to interdict my forces on the outskirts of the town while his main effort moves on the town? It's curious that I have no contacts on my right yet... Note: a third Cromwell showed up on the Dunes this turn... it is sitting right on one of the spots being overwatched by the Panther from Pz Section 1.. hopefully the Panther will get a spot and get me a kill next turn. That would make up for the loss of the halftrack last turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 When we gonna see this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 ... Check this out.. I had the Wirblewind fire on one of the farm buildings where c3k has some troops holed up... click this link for the video showing both the giving and the receiving of this fire: ... Lovely. Also excellent was seeing the building depict damage after taking 2 bursts - has that aspect been tweaked for MG or is it just that the hail of 20mm builds up to the 'damage depiction threshold' quickly ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Busy last few days so need to catch up on AAR but I wonder if ATF allows Wirblewinds for Hawg Hunting If so I will apply and pay the tax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJR144 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Bil, in case you haven't tested the Wirbelwind against infantry yet, here are the results from a test in the other thread you can't read: "One moment of slackness, one burst, one wasted unit. (The time span was even shorter than pictured. It takes a few seconds for those crosses to appear.)" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Section 1's Panther did spot Ken's Cromwell on the hill, unfortunately Ken backed this tank off the hill and just when the Panther went from Aiming to Firing, it lost the spot. Dammit. This Cromwell was later spotted moving down the Dune towards the other two Cromwells. Section 2's Panther pulled into position and spotted one of Ken's hulldown Cromwells, fires at turn end.. and misses high... DOUBLE DAMN!! I don't feel so bad about this one, as the Panther still has a spot and should kill this tank next turn... it should.. but you never know with this game. Well this is interesting... a total of three tanks, one support tank and two AA tanks (twin 20mm) are heading into the heart of the town.. of course these aren't spotted by my armor overwatching this approach but by infantry that can't do anything about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnzrldr Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Bil, I played the "Tobacco Factory" scenario in GL as the Ami's against the AI, and got three Shermans dusted off by quad 20mms. The results were devastating. One vehicle suffered only optics and superficial damage, along with instant full suppression. He backed out successfully and was back in the fight a turn or two later. The second lost all optics, main gun, .50 cal blown off, and suffered a morale hit that lasted the rest of the scenario. The third one suffered a hit similar to the first, tried to back out in a stupid direction (he hadn't spotted his antagonist) turned his side and got immobilized. The next turn two quick bursts of 20mm into the side of the Sherman blew it up. I would not count your Wirbelwind an ineffective vehicle against those Cromwells, assuming he shoots first (or straightest). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 A ton of actin this turn.. and I have a feeling that Ken is not going to be very happy. Center Most action occurs in the center of the map where Ken has his tank platoon and a lot of infantry activity... Remember last turn my 2 Section Panther had taken a shot at a Cromwell and missed high.. well this turn he fires twice at it, and hits, penetrating both times. The second penetration brewed up the tank. Ken had tried to back it out of position, but it was caught before it could get away. Another Cromwell topped a ridge and started to fire on an infantry team I had in the buildings behind the windmill. Unfortunately for him my Jpz IV/70 that pulled into position this turn spotted him, fired and killed him with one shot. At the end of the turn the Jpz spots this monster... that my friends is the original Challenger... using the Cromwell chassis in that huge turret sits the same gun that the Firefly carries. From what I have read it is as fast as the Cromwell tank, but lacks in armor protection. The Jpz-IV/70 did fire at this tank, missing high.. hopefully early next turn we'll be able to test that armor protection. In the top image below the Wirblewind area fires at some enemy infantry contacts I spotted last turn. Bottom image: it is very nice to see Ken using bounding overwatch.. he is attempting to push a para squad forward towards the windmill. By the way, the HMG team is back in position on the top floor of the windmill.. with Ken's armor scrambling for their lives I think they might have a longer stay this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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