Bastables Posted December 29, 1999 Share Posted December 29, 1999 Mikeman, Singleblind= The 1st time you play Vs the AI, aghhh reminds me of the time with that Female 1LT when her orders during the firefight(training) were reduced to screaming 'Were is the Enemy!' Sombody tell me were the F*&^ing enemy is!' Classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 29, 1999 Share Posted December 29, 1999 Dale and Maschendrahtzaun (man, that is a bugger of a German word ), No offense taken to the Emperor point. I also understand what both of you are talking about. Best thing to do is post and then duck if need be I'll get to answering it as best I can sooner or later One thing that you should keep in mind is that NOBODY, not even our testers, has as deep of an understanding about how CM works and was designed than Charles (I come a close second . I think this partly explains some of the "short" answers that are given by some folks some of the time. On balance I think we have less groundless fanaticism here than with other games (I am not going to name the one I am thinking of ). So although nothing is perfect, in general deep criticism is received very well here when compared to the norm. Iconoclast, I enjoyed the discussion very much. I must admit that it caused me to really think and observe while I was playing that Airborne game (which I had already stated when I read your post). Nobody is more pleased with the results than we are Although CM will still do things "wrong" from time to time, including producing some rare or ahistorical results, by and large it sticks to reality better than any other game I have ever played. In fact, it has exceeded Charles and my expectations several times over. I kid you not! BTW, the AI on the attack is a SOB now! No more frittering away forces in uncooridnated attacks. It is still not as good as a great human, but it is better than the average one in the right situation. In the game detailed above the bastard crushed me and I was playing my damned best Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 29, 1999 Share Posted December 29, 1999 Dale and Manblahblah (bloody long and difficult to pronounce name BTW), One other thing you have to take into account that any of the testers posting on this board (I presume these are the people you are characterising in your posts) have real lives too and only a finite amount of time to give responses. When I see a question which could have been answered by the questioner doing a search I either simply don't answer, knowing someone else will or give a very quick answer. e.g. Why do StuGs always get spotted when they fire once? Answer: They don't. In a game I had one didn't get spotted till it fired 6 times. Sure, it's a short answer but anyone who had used the search would have been able to find the answer if they'd just spent ten minutes looking. With 21000 posts made almost every issue which you can think of has been touched on and most questions are just repeats of questions asked 5000 or 10000 posts ago which could be answered if the poster simply used search. I've made probably about 2000 posts.. After 2000 posts there are very few things which I respond to which are original. When I DO see something original I'll give a long response. When I see something which has been asked 3, 4 or 10 times before I'll give a short answer. I only have a finite time and choose not to devote it to answering questions for the nth time That takes care of testers... Now, others who mean well when answering posts simply don't have the inside and detailed knowledge testers have and so it is quite impossible for them to give long detailed answers since they can't know as much about a subject as testers. Basically Charles and Steve know the game best, the testers all know it very well by now and everyone else is playing a three month old beta demo now from which the current game is markedly different and improved. I amn't able to answer some beta demo questions because I simply forget when a certain feature was added and can't remember if it was in back then or not. So, when you see what you feel is a brush-off ask yourself: a) Is this person a tester? If the answer is no then it is fair to say they are giving the info they have and simply don't have more. If the answer is yes then know that this person has probably answered this question 5 times already... I think it is only fair for their 6th answer to be a little shorter as they don't have an infinite amount of time. Look at this thread for an example... I am responding in greater length to this than I think I've responded to anything all week simply because it is a relatively new topic and quite interesting. If you had raised something I'd answered 6 or 7 times before I probably wouldn't have bothered answering but left it to someone else... So, perhaps think of "other reasons" before thinking its a brush-off or belittling of your questions. Maschendrahtzaun, I think you'll find that any reasoned and well-presented argument like Iconoclast's is listened to and everyone with any insight into the issue will try to answer it. Most people don't present arguments in a well-reasoned and supported manner however and those can't expect to receive a well-reasoned and supported response. The response will mirror the quality and uniqueness of the question in other words. I know that after some posts made about me here a few weeks ago I re-examined my involvement with the board and decided that I would respond based on the quality and uniqueness of the question asked and HOW it was asked. Good questions asked well get a much fuller response from me than bad questions (bad by my frame of reference being a questions which should have been answered by conducting a search) asked poorly. There simply isn't enough time to respond to everything and this picking and choosing of what to answer has given me more free time to do things I enjoy more than answering a question for the 8th time from someone who asks a question unsupported by any facts or research. It is a sort of you reap what you sow approach . IF you think criticism gets short shrift why don't you simply try making a post and airing your concerns. Maybe those concerns will be answered by an "Oh well I don't agree that is what is happening" or will be answered by someone saying that whatever issue bothers you doesn't bother them. Those ARE valid answers though . Simply because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they haven't validly answered the question ( I don't know if I need to say this to you but I know it needs to be said to a lot of members of the forum). So, I'd invite you to simply ask your question (same goes for you Dale). Spill it and see if they're answered before you go taking about the "attitude" on the board eh? You just might be surprised at the answers. ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers [This message has been edited by Fionn (edited 12-29-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 29, 1999 Share Posted December 29, 1999 Goanna, Yes I'd love to see the picture, maybe even post it to CMHQ if it is interesting and "different" Well, when the game comes out I intend to play on the ladder and intend to play in the meta-campaign I am organising (probably only a battalion commander since to be anything else would be unfair BUT I DO intend to play ). ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 29, 1999 Share Posted December 29, 1999 What is this Twillight Zone... "the night of the long posts"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maschendrahtzaun Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 I am not trying to blame an individual for that which I see happening here. I do feel justified becuase BTS posted that they understand where I am coming from on this. I think the level of discussion was higher before the demo and during the first weeks after the demo. I think before that there were only a few people "qualified" to answer questions about the game and that I think helped very much to control the flames. I think the demo split the CM gamers into groups. There is the group that thinks CM is perfect. There is the group that see flaws in CM but also recognize that it is an important step forward and there is the group that was disappointed by the demo for whatever reason. The problem I think comes from the first group when they respond to someone from the other two groups. I'm thinking of the "if you don't like it go play SP or CC" kind of answer. Another pattern is the dismisal of questions basedon the demo. A standard answer seems to be "it's been fixed." I understand why testers might answer this way, but I don't think it is very helpful. I might never have posted, but Dale's post seemed to me to be hitting the nail on the head. I have not read every thread. I have read those that have titles that look interesting. I also read the locked threads . Maybe that is why my view of the board is as it is. For example I just read the thread about the "Dutch" bigoraphy of Reagan. The only reason I read it was because it is locked. So I want to see what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Interesting read I always love it when Steve gives a detailed description of a game he is playing...more fun than actually playing CM JUst turned year 2000 here! The power dimmed for twice a sec, thought my computer was going to crash! ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 12-31-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Thanks CoolColJ, and glad to hear that all is well in Oz this new year Generally a polarized reaction comes as a result of a polarized action. If someone takes a strong pot shot at CM (and there are VERY few of these, as in a handfull) there is generally a strong counter response. Same in reverse. I have seen strong support for something in CM met with strong opposition. Natural human tendencies As for the "short" answers that are sometimes given, I can understand them. Sometimes the question has been asked, and answered in detail, several times. Some people have a bad habit of not using Search first and therefore a long answer is not deserved. Other answers are short because there is really not much to say about the subject, especially if it a "its been fixed" response. A minor few are short because someone has lost patience with the discussion. Again, all natural human tendencies that no BBS is going to curtail People also need to remind themselves that the Demo is only a Beta Demo, not a full one. It is also over 2 months old, which is a very long time for the way Charles works. Problems should be expected with the Beta Demo, as well as the fixes. So we do expect that when someone complains about something, and we say it is fixed, that there is really nothing more that needs to be said until the Gold Demo comes out. When an explanation of HOW it has been fixed appears to be needed (if it is a complex sort of problem) one will be given. I have seen many testers do this time and time again, so I know it isn't just me that is taking the time to do this Anyhoo, I still find a lot of very good conversations going on here. Yes, there are less "ground breaking" ones now than before the demo, but that should be expected. In fact, this has happened a few times in the last year inbetween major "releases" (AARs, screenshots, Beta Demo, etc.) However, the signal to noise ratio is exceptionally good here. After the Gold Demo is released, and then the game, I fear looking at the threads on this board simply because the volume will be HUGE Steve P.S. I am locking this up because I think it has run its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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