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Scook

Patch changes list?

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Is there a current list of changes/bugs in AoD? I don't want to search all threads, nor want to repost something already mentioned. Thank you!

The map is awesome, btw. Rather an amazing game.

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Hi Scook,

Glad you like the map and the game and while we don't usually have a definitive list until we are ready to release it shouldn't stop you from sharing anything you might have found even if it has come up before.

Let us know what you might have found and we'll do our best to address any bugs/changes you might have in mind.

Hubert

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Thank you Hubert. I will be dropping some names here, and if it's not kosher, please just edit them out. I have purchased every game you have made. The only other author I can make that claim on is Gary Grigsby. I appreciate the level of quality you dedicate yourself to, even for a "beer & pretzels" game.

This is what World in Flames should be if made into a computer game. You strike a great balance between complexity and playabilty that is hard to come by. This latest map gives enough room to try anything stupid you have ever felt compelled to do. Kudos!

So far (from memory, will replay several times and write things down):

- The supply level of 3 and railroads, working as designed or unintented? The Eastern Front from Germany I have a feeling will be unfair in a match between two human, but I can live with the design decision if this is what you want.

- My German fighter when in Paris itself only had a range of 3 or 4 instead of 5. Will test again in another game to make sure it wasn't just a one time thing.

- The creation of the Indian Army after the fall of Singapore. The unit just doesn't show up anywhere.

- Coastal Forts in France, are you supposed to get 3? From the text I am under the impression 3 will show up, but get 2.

- DDs in the Atlantic, they have a script deathwish. When German CAs and BBs are in the area, they throw themselves at them and try to hit any subs in the area, without heavy ship backup. I am not even trying to be gamey on this one. They just like to die.

- Destruction of supplies sources and ports, it just doesn't happen. I imagine this has been pointed out already.

There will be more, but I need to use pen and paper, not just memory.

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Thanks Scook, much appreciated and I think we've now got most of the issues under control for the first patch.

1) We will be changing the minimum threshold for operational movement for land units to 3 as compensation for this... so hopefully this will help.

2) If you can find that this is repeatable definitely let us know.

3) There is a 30% chance per turn that the unit is formed so it might not happen right away but from what I can tell the scripts look ok... I'll run another test tonight to confirm.

4) You can get 3 but if you have a unit in position for one of the arrival positions for the Coastal Fort then there is a chance it will not appear until the unit moves out of the way. Either that or it just hasn't arrived yet as the arrivals are slightly staggered but should all arrive by the end of 1943. Arrival tiles are at 151,75 154,75 and 159,72.

5) I'll see what I can do and usually the AI DDs move into position to hopefully draw their friendly BBs and CAs into action but it sounds like it is not always ideally happening.

6) This is now fixed

Hubert

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I'd like to add one item to the list :)

I got the event to arm the Indian army for 50 MMP for 4 turns. I accepted, had the cost deducted. Then when I took Mandaly as the event told me I needed to, nothing I could see actually happened. No popup or message to indicate that the cost was well spent.

So I have no idea if the event helped me or not. If it was countered somehow, it would be nice to know that as well.

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Paris for some reason had it's own weather zone, which I think I read somewhere was going to be fixed for the patch. Maybe the fighter was in rain for one turn, it would probably be pretty easy to miss the weather conditions changing on a single tile which already had a city and unit within it.

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To start with I love this game like all the others and will continue to play over and over despite some flaws as SC is one of the best war games out there and good for repeat play. However some things to point out.

Some scripts that do not seem to work in my games so far:

1. Do not receive the 3 battleships if owning Algiers, Casablanca if as Germany I go with Vichy or no Vichy.

2. Do not receive the battleship in Brest if owned by Germany before French surrender.

3. Polynesia does not seem to offer the free unit as in Gold, at least in my 2 allied games. I did purchase the Polynesian unit as I do in Gold to get an extra unit in the pacific but never affected the Gold version where this free unit was still received.

4. Japanese do not go after New Guinea or Rabaul in this version.

Suggestions

1. 3 games so far as the axis and Italy in 2 of them surrendered before even being invaded and the other right when invaded as it was already at 0 when England went in late 42'. Seems they need turned up a notch. I noticed even when playing them and taking Africa as the axis they even then go down to 50 from the loss' they occur in battle.

2. If Italy surrenders perhaps some free German units should at least appear in the northern cities from Rome up to offer a more challenge as all of Italy can be landed in right after surrender throwing the game off completely. However my latest game I decided to give the germans some time and yet did amphibious to make it some what fun at least vs the computer. At least against the computer some free units with a HQ could be given.

3. France invasion also seems to be too easy once landed as Germans do not have much to move in if they are fighting to the death with the Russians. At least against the computer some free units with a HQ could be given.

4. Japanese carriers bomb Chinese units regardless of carrier strength and Chinese units/entrench they are bombing causing unneeded loss' to the Japanese carriers. Carriers really should only be used to bomb units once entrenchment is down otherwise are virtually useless and cause hits to carrier fleets that are not needed.

5. Fighters continuously bomb units and cities for loss' and again is a loss' for the AI as they take far more loss' then my units that they bomb.

6. Japanese fleet in gold and now democracy never seem to put up a fight for the outer islands which is a shame as it takes away from the fun, and really is the most important. Once US has islands and air units in place the rest is really history.

7. Relentless Japanese land attacks against entrenchment and with units with low morale really seems to be too aggressive causing way more loss to themselves then the Chinese.

8. Be nice if the AI would garrison most islands and put up a fight for the islands as again once a shore the US can then move in air support and the rest are much easier.

9. Perhaps as mentioned before the Caribbean and other German islands if not occupied should be automatically switched over to the US once they are in the war.

10. Peru has always been a sore for me as it does not seem to do the Axis any good and at the same time wastes a lot of US resources to not take it back as the allies never have vs. me in either version but continue to bomb and park a sub outside of it.

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I'd like to add one item to the list :)

I got the event to arm the Indian army for 50 MMP for 4 turns. I accepted, had the cost deducted. Then when I took Mandaly as the event told me I needed to, nothing I could see actually happened. No popup or message to indicate that the cost was well spent.

So I have no idea if the event helped me or not. If it was countered somehow, it would be nice to know that as well.

Hi Numdydar,

I think this is the same issue that Scook reported and I've now been able to track it down... consider it fixed :)

Hubert

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To start with I love this game like all the others and will continue to play over and over despite some flaws as SC is one of the best war games out there and good for repeat play. However some things to point out.

Some scripts that do not seem to work in my games so far:

1. Do not receive the 3 battleships if owning Algiers, Casablanca if as Germany I go with Vichy or no Vichy.

2. Do not receive the battleship in Brest if owned by Germany before French surrender.

3. Polynesia does not seem to offer the free unit as in Gold, at least in my 2 allied games. I did purchase the Polynesian unit as I do in Gold to get an extra unit in the pacific but never affected the Gold version where this free unit was still received.

4. Japanese do not go after New Guinea or Rabaul in this version.

Suggestions

1. 3 games so far as the axis and Italy in 2 of them surrendered before even being invaded and the other right when invaded as it was already at 0 when England went in late 42'. Seems they need turned up a notch. I noticed even when playing them and taking Africa as the axis they even then go down to 50 from the loss' they occur in battle.

2. If Italy surrenders perhaps some free German units should at least appear in the northern cities from Rome up to offer a more challenge as all of Italy can be landed in right after surrender throwing the game off completely. However my latest game I decided to give the germans some time and yet did amphibious to make it some what fun at least vs the computer. At least against the computer some free units with a HQ could be given.

3. France invasion also seems to be too easy once landed as Germans do not have much to move in if they are fighting to the death with the Russians. At least against the computer some free units with a HQ could be given.

4. Japanese carriers bomb Chinese units regardless of carrier strength and Chinese units/entrench they are bombing causing unneeded loss' to the Japanese carriers. Carriers really should only be used to bomb units once entrenchment is down otherwise are virtually useless and cause hits to carrier fleets that are not needed.

5. Fighters continuously bomb units and cities for loss' and again is a loss' for the AI as they take far more loss' then my units that they bomb.

6. Japanese fleet in gold and now democracy never seem to put up a fight for the outer islands which is a shame as it takes away from the fun, and really is the most important. Once US has islands and air units in place the rest is really history.

7. Relentless Japanese land attacks against entrenchment and with units with low morale really seems to be too aggressive causing way more loss to themselves then the Chinese.

8. Be nice if the AI would garrison most islands and put up a fight for the islands as again once a shore the US can then move in air support and the rest are much easier.

9. Perhaps as mentioned before the Caribbean and other German islands if not occupied should be automatically switched over to the US once they are in the war.

10. Peru has always been a sore for me as it does not seem to do the Axis any good and at the same time wastes a lot of US resources to not take it back as the allies never have vs. me in either version but continue to bomb and park a sub outside of it.

Hi Steel32,

For the fixes list, specifically items 1 and 2 can you remind me what events these are associated with, i.e. are these part of a DECISION event or is it a FREE UNIT event after a surrender or perhaps something else?

I try and remember as much as I can from the campaigns but there is always just so much to keep track of and these are just not ringing a bell for me :(

Any extra details you can provide will help me to track it down.

Hubert

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Hello Hubert

1. This is the no portion of Decision 100 for UK when they vote no on recognizing Vichy France.

2. This is Decision 604 for Germany when Brest is in their hands they have the chance to rebuild the Strausbourg

Decision events.

Steel 32

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Thanks Steel 32 and for #1 I took a closer look and upon initial inspection the port from GOLD seems fine as the events and event entries match up as expected and the only thing I can think of is that the arrival of the 3 Battleships are a one time random event, i.e. 25, 50 and 75% respectively.

It is possibly just bad luck that you didn't get any of the ships but if you happen to have saved turns from right before you placed an Axis unit adjacent to the ports in the adjacent cities I could take a closer look.

For #2 I just ran a test and it fired as expected if the Brits said NO to 100 and the Germans YES to 604... does this match your end in terms of the responses to the DEs?

Hubert

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Hello Hubert,

I played some hotseat today and noticed you are correct on 1, 2 mentioned above. For some reason all these years I have misunderstood this decision 100.

Thanks for your patience,

Steel32

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No problems at all Steel32 and just another quick FYI that I've also just made some further adjustments based on your feedback such as adjusting AI Fighter/Medium Bomber/Carrier attacks so that they avoid attacks with potentially higher losses as well as Italian National Morale and so on.

Hopefully this helps improve the first patch even further :)

Hubert

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Wasn't this also a problem in the original Gold campaign? Is it fixed there too?

It looks like it was for GOLD and I'll make an adjustment there as well in case we do another patch.

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Small oddity here. 1944 Liberated France enjoys morale boost for USSR mobilization ( which happened in 1941). No big deal, France does'nt have many units then.

Another small map concern. Why Kursk is not there?

I think players like the historical flavor of famous map spot like that one. Moreover, the supply in this area was pretty terrible for both sides in my games, not so much in reality. How about putting some small town there at level 3 on the rail or not rail connected if you feel it impacts too much on game balance.

Btw the heavy forests around should be mainly small hills intead, the real surroundings was more or less like that around Kursk and Kharkov while forest tiles would be more around Orel and Bryansk. Thanks for your dedication to your games and your open-minded way to improve it with players feedback.

Changes you have agreed on are all good steps in the right direction at the right pace!

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I would like to add a couple of things:

Germans seem to have terrible supply in Russia, much worse than in gold. Intentional?

My only game so far is in November 1942. Guess who has the largest army in the world? I imagine the allied numbers are estimates, but my Japanese have a larger army than Germany by 10 (and German losses have been light). I think the Japanese have too many units. Historically, the German army was close to 3 times Japanese.

China fell to my axis several turns ago and a HUGE Japanese army (4 hq, 14 army, 1 cavalry, 1 tank, 4 special forces, 3 corps, and 5 air) is in or entering Russia. I also have quite a few units elsewhere, this isn't the whole military.

WOW.

Patches have helped China in Gold, I think they will need considerable help in AoD as well.

One other thing; I'm hoping a graphic tweak will help me tell corps from armies easier, and no, those 14 armies are not corps :) I use the non 3d graphics and they are quite close.

thanx

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Patches have helped China in Gold, I think they will need considerable help in AoD as well.

In a PvP game, China is a very, very hard opponent. When Japan wants to conquer China, they have to invest large amounts of MPP. An undistinguished played Japan can be driven out of the country.

Only a AI-controlled China should get some help if necessary.

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Allied warships have the ABILITY to CHOSE to raid convoy lanes or not. However, it does not seem to make any difference whatsoever when it comes to the convoy lane that passes close to Norway en route to the Baltic. If the Allied player CHOSES to raid this convoy lane then it is eminently reasonable to have the Norwegians be irritated by this. However, the Norwegians recently proclaimed their irritation at the presence of an Allied warship that was well outside their territorial waters and NOT raiding. It happened to be adjacent to the convoy route, but I had – quite deliberately – CHOSEN not to raid. Nonetheless the Norwegians moved 17% closer to joining the Axis (went from 10% to 27% in one turn). I had ALSO placed the French submarine so that it was not adjacent to the convoy lane – although it very well could have been placed adjacent.

This is irritating, especially as this problem has been raised before. There is currently no way that Allied warships can operate close to Norway at all without raising the possibility of forcing Norway into the Axis camp inadvertently. This is patently ridiculous.

If the Allied player CHOSES to raid the convoy route then there should certainly be the possibility of negative consequences. But when the Allied player deliberately CHOSES NOT to raid it is ridiculous that the Norwegian's react. I also checked the graphs to confirm that no damage had been done to German convoys (which, of course, there had not been).

The Allies should have the ability to operate in the open ocean (at least one square from Norway) without the possibility of irritating the Norwegians. The current situation is simply wrong.

I can forward the save game files for my turns (I am currently in a PBEM game, so my opponent's files are his to decide what to do with).

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Germans seem to have terrible supply in Russia, much worse than in gold. Intentional?

Yes that is true. Little supply and difficult play for Germans in 1.00

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