CMPzC Normandy '44 Caen Operation - Axis HQ

[Strachwitz]

Ok I understand. So basically the game is build upon trust between the both "commanders" handling the game on the PzC-operational-level. I have to trust him not to look at our OoBs before the battle started and also in applying correct casualties and losses of assets after the assault phase. And vice versa.

I guess to speed up the process of adding the participating forces I can simply make an core unit file with all assets and use this as a template during the campaign. Is there a specific reason that all units experience level is set to green?

Thanks on the info about enemy artillery and the clarification of the artillery rule. And yes, as I watch the replay of the allied turn I will incorporate these informations in the Operational AAR and inform the other players about the overall battlefield situation before discussing the orders for the next turn.

Last question (for now :-)). In the PzC operational layer defensive fire (e.g. moving from enemy ZOC into another hex) is set on automatic, right?

Regarding my email-address I wrote you a PM.

[noob]

Ok I understand. So basically the game is build upon trust between the both "commanders" handling the game on the PzC-operational-level. I have to trust him not to look at our OoBs before the battle started and also in applying correct casualties and losses of assets after the assault phase. And vice versa.

The PzC turns can be, and will be, encrypted, but as you point out, everything else is based on trust.

I guess to speed up the process of adding the participating forces I can simply make an core unit file with all assets and use this as a template during the campaign.

That's a good idea. I was going to create a CM OOB of all the forces involved, then all you have to do is import it into the scenario editor, and then remove what units aren't participating. However, that adds another level of file swapping, and the potential for a security breach, so it's easier if players keep a track of their own CM units via a spreadsheet, or, as you mentioned, a template CM OOB file.

Is there a specific reason that all units experience level is set to green?

The only indicator of a PzC units quality is its morale level. However, the morale level of a PzC unit represents CM motivation, so there is no PzC value for experience. Therefore, one needs to research the units involved. In this particular combat, the Axis forces were the "Hitler Youth" division, and, apart from the Company Co's, had never been involved in real combat. The Canadians were volunteers, and likewise, had also never been involved in real combat.

Thanks on the info about enemy artillery and the clarification of the artillery rule. And yes, as I watch the replay of the allied turn I will incorporate these informations in the Operational AAR and inform the other players about the overall battlefield situation before discussing the orders for the next turn.

Good.

Last question (for now :-)). In the PzC operational layer defensive fire (e.g. moving from enemy ZOC into another hex) is set on automatic, right?

During a PzC move, enemy units will automatically fire directly, or indirectly on a visible unit, if they have enough MP's.

Regarding my email-address I wrote you a PM.

Ok.

[noob]

I have posted the Axis PzC turn 01 in the dropbox folder. Put the file in the PzC game folder, then start the game. To access the file, you need to select "Old" (by Name), and "PBEM" in the File Selection Dialog. Then you will be asked if you want to watch the Allied turn replay. Once you have finished processing the moves and fires for the PzC turn, save the file as Allied Turn 02, then decide which units are going to assault. The game will tell you which units are eligible. After the CM battle phase, the PzC OOB is modified first by the player that defended in the CM battle phase. Once the defender has returned the PzC OOB file to you, and you complete editing it, you can then finish your PzC turn by loading up the file "Allied Turn 02", then click the "Next Phase" button. This is when you will be prompted to create a password. I will PM you the password i want you to use. Once you have created the password, you then post the turn into the dropbox folder for the Allied player to download.

[Strachwitz]

Roger that noob. I will do so. Latest tomorrow I will send the new file and hopefully adding a operstional AAR.

Question: before any CM battles every side has to also change their OoBs according to the effects any indirect and direct fire of the movement phase, right? So if one side looses men or vehicles/guns they have to be removed...

@ian.leslie: I agree with your basic plan. If you and others don't mind I will make the operational move with the general plan you proposed. But I guess a few details could be a little bit different. But it you wish we can discuss this in depth. It's up to you. First major difference would be to fire with all (including the 105mm) available artillery and mortar assets as we don't need them saved for a CM battle as turn 1 is over after our movement phase.

[A Canadian Cat]

I think that sounds reasonable - go for it

[noob]

Question: before any CM battles every side has to also change their OoBs according to the effects any indirect and direct fire of the movement phase, right? So if one side looses men or vehicles/guns they have to be removed...

"Before" a CM battle, CM units have to reflect the state of their equivalent PzC units. This means modifying the levels for CM fitness, leadership and supply, if necessary. "After" a CM battle, the CM units losses in men, guns or vehicles must be applied to the equivalent PzC units.

First major difference would be to fire with all (including the 105mm) available artillery and mortar assets as we don't need them saved for a CM battle as turn 1 is over after our movement phase.

Turn 1 is over only if you have no assaults to perform after you have completed your movement and firing. If you are going to declare assaults, and thus generate a CM battle, you might want to save some artillery for a CM battle.

[Strachwitz]

"Before" a CM battle, CM units have to reflect the state of their equivalent PzC units. This means modifying the levels for CM fitness, leadership and supply, if necessary. "After" a CM battle, the CM units losses in men, guns or vehicles must be applied to the equivalent PzC units.

This one I don`t understand. If someone inflicts casualties during the movement phase (direct fire, defensive fire ect.) then the losses should be applied before the assault battles. If for example there is one enemy tank destroyed during the movement phase, this tank should not be able to take part in any assault battles fought in CM. Or am I missing something?

[noob]

This one I don`t understand. If someone inflicts casualties during the movement phase (direct fire, defensive fire ect.) then the losses should be applied before the assault battles. If for example there is one enemy tank destroyed during the movement phase, this tank should not be able to take part in any assault battles fought in CM. Or am I missing something?

Sorry, I forgot to add headcount to fitness, leadership, and supply.

[noob]

@Strachwitz - When you finish your movement and firing, save the file as Allied Turn 02, and post it to the dropbox folder called Axis Team. I have sent you an invite. This way the rest of the team can look at your the Axis dispositions and condition before the assault phase. Also, If there are to be assaults, please post to this thread, the hex coordinates of the assaulting units, their target hexes, and the hexes containing any reinforcements you intend to use, and which target hex they are reinforcing.

[noob]

I have removed the ability to reinforce a CM battle. I have done this for the following reasons:

It reduces the maximum amount of CM units in a single battle to a battalion of foot plus support weapons per side.

It simplifies the operational game play.

It conforms to the hex stacking limit rule.

Because of the operational layer, flanking can now be performed at the operational level.

[Strachwitz]

I will do the turn this evening.

Regarding the latest change of rules. I was completely satisfied with the reinforcements for a CM battle. This was the only way to achieve a 2:1 attacking ratio. Now basically fights will be 1:1, making it much harder for the attacker to drive the defenders of the map. So how does the attacker gets a much needed numerical superiority?

By flanking on the operational layer you mean that if the enemy gets to the flank of a friendly hex he has for example the choice to start the attack from one hex with let me say 2 companies and with 1 company from another, the flanking hex?

[noob]

I will do the turn this evening.

Regarding the latest change of rules. I was completely satisfied with the reinforcements for a CM battle. This was the only way to achieve a 2:1 attacking ratio. Now basically fights will be 1:1, making it much harder for the attacker to drive the defenders of the map. So how does the attacker gets a much needed numerical superiority?

By flanking on the operational layer you mean that if the enemy gets to the flank of a friendly hex he has for example the choice to start the attack from one hex with let me say 2 companies and with 1 company from another, the flanking hex?

I want to think some more on this, but I must go out, so I will post when I get back.

[Bil Hardenberger]

I think the arbitrary 1 battalion for each side in the CM battle is the problem, not the reinforcement issue... the attacker should be allowed to attack from more than one hex, regardless if that means he has more than 1 battalion in the battle. It doesn't matter if those units are in at the battle start or if they come in as reinforcements to illustrate an uncoordinated attack (which would be very common in this time frame).

Basically what I would do is: allow attacks from multiple hexes, if the units are not in the same line of command (companies from different battalions, etc.) then those forces come in as reinforcements (have a table to roll on to come up with the delay, in fact this would be a good idea for all attacking units... just have a negative modifier for units in different lines of command to extend their entry even further).

Perhaps your stacking limits are too high and need to be reduced? But really a smart commander is not going to have hexes filled with a battalion each.. or he would leave a lot of holes an enemy formation could slip through.

Just my two cents.

Bil

[noob]

I think the arbitrary 1 battalion for each side in the CM battle is the problem, not the reinforcement issue

It's not arbitary. It's based on an Osprey book of WW2 infantry tactics. According to the book, battalions on both sides attacked on a frontage of 600 - 1000 yards. Therefore, given a PzC hex is 1000 x 1000m, i thought that restricting a hex to a battalion plus support was a nice fit with that parameter.

the attacker should be allowed to attack from more than one hex,

They can already.

regardless if that means he has more than 1 battalion in the battle.

If both sides start the CM battle with one battalion plus support per side, that's a lot of units to manage. Adding another battalion would start to slow down proceedings, and possibly stretch players systems (I know my PC would struggle with three or more battalions on the same map)

Basically what I would do is: allow attacks from multiple hexes, if the units are not in the same line of command (companies from different battalions, etc.)

I am allowing that.

Perhaps your stacking limits are too high and need to be reduced?

I agree, i'm going to drop it to 600.

then those forces come in as reinforcements (have a table to roll on to come up with the delay, in fact this would be a good idea for all attacking units... just have a negative modifier for units in different lines of command to extend their entry even further).

I want to keep things simple to start with. Once people get their head round my system, they can add whatever rules they like. For the purposes of this demonstration i want to keep the workload for the participants to a minimum.

Therefore, removing the reinforcement option, reduced complexity, allows easier CM scenario building, and reduces the amount of CM units on a map, which saves time and processing power.

[noob]

I have reduced the stacking limit to 600. Please go to the Introduction page in the guide, and download the .pdt file there. Overwrite the .pdt file in the PzC Normandy '44 demo folder with the new one, before you perform any moves.

[noob]

I have made some changes, and i want to discuss them on this thread:http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110594&page=6

[noob]

@Starchwitz - I have completed the changes to the rules. Now, an enemy occupied hex can be attacked from any adjacent hex, with as many units as the attacker can spare. However, if, in the course of this operation, and as a result of this rule, the CM battles get too big, i will reduce the stacking limit of the hexes. But, for now, we can carry on. So please complete the Axis PzC turn, and the operation can proceed.

Once you have finished Axis Turn 01, make a copy of it, and name the copy Allied Turn 02. If there are no Axis assaults, load up Allied Turn 02, then click on Next Turn. This will automatically overwrite Allied Turn 02, and convert it to a PBEM file. This PBEM file should then be posted in the CMPzC N44 Caen Postbox.

Post Axis Turn 01 in the Axis Team dropbox folder, so the Axis team can look at the dispositions, and condition, of the Axis forces at the end of the PzC phase. Also, you need to write an AAR for the turn, and post it in this thread.

[noob]

@Strachwitz - Could I have an update on the status of Axis Turn 01 please ?

[GerryCMBB]

Hello Noob:

Maybe it would be better if you played one other person and both posted what was happening in the PzC game? You could better showcase your system with a faster turnaround time?

Gerry

[Rokko]

What maps do you use for the CM battles? I know you were interested in 4x4km map when it was still in development so you're probably using it, but it only covers a relatively small portion of the entire operational map. So do you use random QB maps or some other individually crafted maps?

[noob]

Hello Noob:

Maybe it would be better if you played one other person and both posted what was happening in the PzC game? You could better showcase your system with a faster turnaround time?

Gerry

That was the plan, but the Axis CO who was going to process and post an AAR of the PzC turn has gone AWOL, so I have asked another member to take over as the Axis CO.

[noob]

What maps do you use for the CM battles? I know you were interested in 4x4km map when it was still in development so you're probably using it, but it only covers a relatively small portion of the entire operational map. So do you use random QB maps or some other individually crafted maps?

I am using two 2000 x 2000m maps of Buron and Authie cropped from your Caen Map Project master map. I also have 2000 x 2000m maps of generic locations to be used when necessary. I intend to create a map pack, and link it to my signature.

[kohlenklau]

Hey noob,

Hang in there. Maybe it is seeming sometimes like you are building a shed in your backyard or whatever and every Tom, Dick and Harry in the neighborhood seems to stroll by and drink one of your beers and poke and prod and ask why you are using 3/4 inch and not 1 inch, etc. But I see a lot of folks here seem to be genuinely supportive and making good suggestions.

...and speaking of suggestions ;-)

Maybe it is just me but in the how to guide I would like to see a color coded "typical turn cycle". Your page has black and blue already so I dunno. Black, Red, Blue?

Black is the overall phases of the PzC turn, as if you didn't even have CM involved.

These right?

• Allied Movement Phase

• Axis Defensive Fire Phase

• Allied Offensive Fire Phase

• Allied Assault Phase

• Axis Movement Phase

• Allied Defensive Fire Phase

• Axis Offensive Fire Phase

• Axis Assault Phase

Red shows within these black PzC phases if/when some data transfer is required either direction.

Blue then shows the CM battle itself.

This typical cycle diagram could show people the rhythm of your overall CMPzC concept.

Indeed as you develop particular parts, rules, detailed explanations in the how to guide, they could be numbered, section 4.3. etc Then in the turn cycle diagram you could reference them "See sec 4.3, 5.2 and 6.4. etc."

Thanks for the beer. The shed is looking great.

[noob]

Maybe it is just me but in the how to guide I would like to see a color coded "typical turn cycle".

Thanks for the input, but I play PzC with Volcano Man's optional rules. This removes the separation between movement, firing, and assault. Therefore, in a VM PzC game, an operational phase consists of an Allied Turn 1, then an Axis Turn 1, that's it. Moves, fires and assaults can all be done whenever the player wants within the turn. This makes the game more fluid, and reduces the amount of emails sent back and forth. However, I do impose a restriction on a PzC turn for CMPzC, and that is to suggest that players perform all moves and fires before any CM assaults are carried out.

I could do as you suggested for players wishing to play the way you outlined, but I prefer Volcano Man's version, so that's the version I intend to promote.

[noob]

@Ian Leslie - I got your PM, but when I treid to reply, it said your inbox is full, so I am posting my reply here.

Kohlenklau is taking over as the Axis CO, and I am playing as the Allied CO. I will be processing the Allied PzC Turn 01 again. It will be done today, and there will definitely be a CM battle generated. You will be fighting it, because Strachwitz has gone AWOL.