Vanir Ausf B Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Crew served weapons are still rather buggy in 2.01 1) Medium and heavy machine guns are still instantly packing-up when given a movement order. When ordered to pack-up in-place by clicking the Deploy button they pack-up normally as per the listed pack-up time. Mortar teams always pack-up normally. 2) Medium and heavy machine guns automatically deploy at the end of a movement order if they were deployed at the beginning of the movement order. Mortar teams do not exhibit this behavior. 3) Medium and heavy machine guns and mortar teams move the crew-served weapon to the back of the action spot when deploying. When next to some types of terrain, notably bocage, this causes the team to lose LOS to the other side (see pics below). Saved game: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bth5olxgyq0aax5/ydbOcFOXLZ/Machinegun%20bug.bts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Movement order given to deployed machine gun No pack-up. Un-deployed machine gun has LOS to target: Deploy order given. Move to the back of the action spot, men! LOS? SOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 On several occasions like the one shown above, I thought I'd done something wrong, and couldn't figure out why my MG's didn't fire. Now I understand. Well spotted, Vanir!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Movement order given to deployed machine gun No pack-up. Un-deployed machine gun has LOS to target: Deploy order given. Move to the back of the action spot, men! LOS? SOL If what you're seeing isn't an artefact of something you're doing (or not doing), then that looks like a serious step backwards. It's almost like the no-deploy-time bug got fixed and broke the packing up process. I'll certainly averr that using covered arcs to make the team face through the linear obstacle works nicely in 1.11 to avoid the dreaded "setting up the gun out of LOS" embuggerance (which I'm sure is the reason you're using it, as I would). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The LOS issue is something I've been investigating on my own. The low tripod US .30 seems to be the culprit. More testing needed. Deploy/non-deploy: Deployed is the ultimate state. Since it should take 14 seconds to un-deploy, let me ask this: how much un-deploy makes deploy not deploy? Confused? Yeah. Let's work it backwards. Assume 10 seconds to deploy. If they get interrupted at 9 seconds, would you cry foul if they are not deployed? No. It would make sense. So, 1 second less than full deploy equals undepoyed. Now take a fully deployed weapon. How many seconds of "pack up" will take it away from its deployed status? I say 1 second. So, "instantly" it loses its deployed status, but they cannot MOVE until the full pack up is complete, 14 seconds later. Does that make sense? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 The LOS issue is something I've been investigating on my own. The low tripod US .30 seems to be the culprit. More testing needed. I saw the same LOS issue in the same spot testing MG42 and 60mm mortar. I can provide more screenshots if that would help but they cannot MOVE until the full pack up is complete, 14 seconds later. Except they can, immediately. I guess I should have taken the screenshot a couple seconds later to show them walking away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Ok, I did some more testing. It looks like the packing-up time issue and the auto-deplpy issue may be intended behavior because they are range dependent. Specifically, if you order a move of 4 action spots or less in length there is no pack-up time and the unit auto-deploys, but if the movement is longer than 4 action spots the unit has to pack-up and will not automatically deploy at the destination. I need to test this on towed AT guns, but right now this looks like it may be a cool new TacAI behavior that I don't recall warrenting a mention in the patch notes. However, as for the LOS issue when deploying... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 ...if you order a move of 4 action spots or less in length there is no pack-up time and the unit auto-deploys, but if the movement is longer than 4 action spots the unit has to pack-up and will not automatically deploy at the destination. I need to test this on towed AT guns, but right now this looks like it may be a cool new TacAI behavior that I don't recall warrenting a mention in the patch notes. Ooo! That would be cool. Even if it didn't apply to ATG. I mean, it'd be nice if ATG were included, but that it's there at all (assuming your conclusions are correct) is good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Vanir - your pics in post #7 aren't showing ( or it could just be me ). In your post #2, all but the last show. It's strange - in doing my AAR, I've generally had to check and reupload pics to the host site when it decides not to show. Not sure what causes it, could be me, could be the host site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Baneman I can see all Vanirs pics, so it has to be something on your side, I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Hmm, I just loaded this page on a different computer than I had been using and they all show up. Is anyone else not seeing them? Ooo! That would be cool. Even if it didn't apply to ATG. I mean, it'd be nice if ATG were included, but that it's there at all (assuming your conclusions are correct) is good. Further testing shows that the no-pack-up-if-moving-less-than-five-action-spots rule only applies to the following crew-served weapons than have a Deploy button: MG42, MG34, US M1919A4. All of the following weapons needed packing up for a move of any distance: German 81mm mortar German 50mm AT gun (Pak 38) US .50 cal. machine gun US 1917 HMG US 60mm mortar UK Vickers machine gun UK 81mm mortar UK 57mm AT gun The UK 51mm mortar is a special case in that it has deploy and pack-up times listed in the UI but never packs-up and has no Deploy button, but it does deploy automatically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 If that was deliberately programmed in, it is very cool. Makes sense that for a short move they would just lift up the deployed weapon and carry the whole thing with tripod a few meters and plonk it down ready to fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Baneman I can see all Vanirs pics, so it has to be something on your side, I guess. Good to know, thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 If that was deliberately programmed in, it is very cool. Makes sense that for a short move they would just lift up the deployed weapon and carry the whole thing with tripod a few meters and plonk it down ready to fire. Yeah, but it's odd that this is only the case for 3 weapons. If an MG 42 can move 4 action spots without packing up I don't see why a Vickers couldn't move 2 or 3. Similarly, some of the smaller towed AT guns such as the Pak 38 could be pushed around fairly easily. Seems arbitrary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Not arbitrary. Designed to simulate the ability to pick up in situ, as it were, and relocate a short distance. The Vickers decision could be looked at again. (It may just have been an oversight.) I thought this was mentioned somewhere in the manual or change notes. (The ability to move short distances without having to redeploy.) Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 There's nothing on it in the patch notes or the manual that I can find. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 The Brixia 47mm is in the same boat as the 2 inch: deploy and packup times listed, but no Deploy button. Best infantry weapon system the Italians have, I reckon. Has lots more (4x as much!) HE than the 2" too, though lacks its smoke utility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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