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Vulnerability of Hanomag halftrack gunners..


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Read the whole Topic but the Question still remains.

What has happened? Anything changed since 2013? Hope for changes in a Patch.

As i read trough the whole Topic i stick with the "Hanomag-in-support-Role-Supporters" :D

I cant hardly imagine why the very limited German War Industry should waste ressources on APCs with MGs in such a large number for Armored Taxi Bus. Simply dont make sense.

Did they look into the Problem with vulnability of Gunners behind Shields? Where did the Testing goes?

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Interesting thread, I also remain in the group supporting that the gunner in such a vehicle should have a high degree of protection from small arms and shrapnel.

Just looking at the Hanomag, it has a long narrow front with sloping armour and a massive protective shield for the gunner. It was obviously designed to be able to take some punishment from the front.

Reading the patch notes, was it only the german halftrack gunner who was "lowered into a more accurate protective stance"?

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Interesting thread, I also remain in the group supporting that the gunner in such a vehicle should have a high degree of protection from small arms and shrapnel.

Just looking at the Hanomag, it has a long narrow front with sloping armour and a massive protective shield for the gunner. It was obviously designed to be able to take some punishment from the front.

And it can. From the front. Directly to the front, and with no plunging element to the fire. That gun shield is hardly "massive"; it's barely wider than the gunner. To see the difference a large gun shield makes, have a look at the way the 251/10 (With the PaK 36) handles off-axis fire. If the threat is off the MG's axis, the shield provides little protection. Given that closer range encounters tend to have more varied angles of engagement, this is probably the primary reason to keep your Hanomags at range if you're going to use them for fire support. Secondary is that .30-06 goes through the side armour at close range too.

One thing that I think skews people's perceptions about the optimum protection given to the gunner is the (understandable) propensity for scenario designers to compenstate for some of the AI's weaknesses by having the OpFor be better quality troops. Crack troops firing lots of bullets (paras in A Moment in Time, I'm looking at you) will hit even the small target area of the gunner behind his shield more often than you'd like. There's a school of QB thought too that says better troops means more concentration of firepower which is a Good Thing, so those situations will also have more, better shots aiming for the gap between the MG and the shield and hitting our brave gunners in the eye.

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Again I think the TacAI is at some fault.

More often than not I get the following situation: the halftrack sees a threat to its, exaggerating a bit , 2 o'clock. The traverse arc of the machine gun is limited, therefore the hull starts to rotate. But we know the hull rotates very, very slowly for CM vehicles. But during this process, the gunner has already stood up, manning the gun and attempting to lay it on target. Meanwhile the large gun shield is unable to protect him because its slightly sideways. And he gets taken out.

Had the gunner stood up later when the hull rotation is finished he might've survived.

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"v2.12 Features:

* German halftrack gunners lowered to a more accurate protective stance"

And it has defiantly made a difference.

If the threat is off the MG's axis, the shield provides little protection. Given that closer range encounters tend to have more varied angles of engagement, this is probably the primary reason to keep your Hanomags at range if you're going to use them for fire support.

But you still need to be careful too.

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Oh, absoulutely. Scenario designers have the peskiest ability to have the AI get a flanking LMG cutting down your firebase gunners, and live opponents more so :)

The best scenario designers are wily beyond belief.

I would be very scared to actually take one of them on H2H !

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