Macisle's Map - Axis AAR - *** Here be SPOILERS ***

[Baneman]

Ok, that was a nasty barrage by the Americans and one we've been expecting since zero hour. The ATG is down, but we've escaped relatively lightly ... so far. The Infantry that were with the ATG only lost 2 of 5 men and are now rapidly looti... helping their injured friends If they get the MG42 quickly enough, they can cover the American movement on the extreme left which is still slow and cautious. On the other side of the hedge, a team moved up to the gate, but were suppressed by my #2 Scout Team which moved down to cover the flank.

A worrying development is a new (smaller ?) spotting round falling. A 2nd small bang seemed to have been a rifle grenade.

Centre left, the HQ with no ammo runs off to grab a last few rounds left in the truck ( it has 200 9mm left ). The HQ that moved up with the reinforcements takes their place. Unfortunately the Faustie Boys took a single casualty which is (of course) the MG42 gunner. Buddy Aid was started but interrupted by more fire, so they and the HQ have decided to pop smoke to buy time for the MG42 to be picked up.

Further right, the defenders of the "Charge to the Bocage" are in a firefight with more Americans further back. That's ok, next turn there's more 81mm coming down there

[Baneman]

This turn, a couple of small bangs were seen in/near the minefield. Perhaps they've come good.

[Baneman]

To the right of the main road, the mortar strike continued for most of the turn and a third member of the team there goes down. The team that got away moves to the bocage in case Americans are approaching from the field to the right.

In the background, a tank moves to the right - this is probably Mr Trundle o'Doom.

On the extreme right, the Canister-firing-schreck-killing Stuart decides to move down the road to support a ( suspected ) move on my bombarded field. This brings him into view of the more patient of my schreck teams.

They don't miss !!! :) This should also enable the dead schreck guy's mate to buddy aid him.

The hatches opened at the end of the turn, so the crew are clearly getting out, but AGAIN, the base is still green so it's not completely KO'd How is this possible ??!

Opponent is now away until Wed, so no more turns until then.

[womble]

Couple of things:

Just because you can't tell a vehicle is destroyed, doesn't mean it isn't. Necessarily... IME, this mostly occurs when the target has been engaged by units without vision aids, so they can't as readily tell whether the target remains viable.

My rule of thumb about indirect incoming goes: if there's no crater it's less than 81mm (and you should probably see the 66mm rifle grenade inbound); if there's a little crater you can't really hide in, it's 81mm; if it's making craters big enough to hide in it's 105 or equivalent, and if it's big enough to hide a small vehicle in, it's 150 or better... Sometimes wheat gets in the way, or the ground colour doesn't show the craters very well, but it seems to be about right for when I know what's made (or failed to make) a dent in the landscape.

[poesel]

The tank only changes to knocked out status when the crew has left (and the tank is reall knocked out). There's a short intermediate period where the tank still looks ok.

[kohlenklau]

Macisle,

It is probably gonna be a while til Market Garden comes out, so....

I was thinking that you could squeeze in a wee bit of

that black magic you do with google earth on some Holland locales?

Just a small map? Isn't this Japanese Golden Week? Come on! You are supposed to rest and relax.

[kohlenklau]

Baneman,

Whenever a GANG of enemy soldiers go through a minefiled and you see a BANG.

Well, you know what you might call that...

Hey, the other AAR thread is talking about TIT's!

Maybe we got a trend brewing?

[Baneman]

The scout that hung around Bodin House ( the one left of the road for those without the map ) took some shots at my guys in Benoit Stables. They drove him off I think, but the snouting Stuart behind the hedge of Laval Farm ( the one on the right ) drove my guys out in turn. They hunkered down immediately behind and now, 2 or so turns later, are moving back in - I think ( hope ? ) that Stuart has moved away.

EDIT : I can't see MacIsle's post now that this was mostly an answer to. Still, it's how I see the situation.

In fact, in several cases now ( see Mr Trundle o'Doom for eg. ) the enemy have moved away from positions that were causing me to absolutely tear my hair for a couple of turns. I think this is due to an understandable desire not to spend too long in one place which might allow me to bring up a counter ( eg. Faustie Boys - and they were being backed up by a longer range schreck ).

It's both a good and bad tactic for him, as I see it - it's kept me running guys around to deal with the situation, but it's also let me off the hook somewhat when a couple more turns might have forced me to pull a team back and surrender a hedgeline. I don't think he knows how safe his Stuarts are when snouting through the bocage - only the ATG actually got through to hit once, all schreck shots taken at Stuarts in such a position either missed or hit the hedge itself, hence I quit trying those shots.

Maybe I'd have had better luck at closer range, but given his Stuarts' scary ability to spot through the bocage, I feel it's too risky to waste my precious schrecks trying.

I think my most vulnerable area is the left flank as I can't cover it laterally like I've managed to do with the right flank - ie. he can't frontally rush the field he's mortared on my right as I can see it from the left of the main road. On my left however, a linear arty strike on the position from #2 Scouts past the Faustie boys would probably get him across the road. That's why I was sweating the Trundle of Doom tank so much, as it threatened almost the same effect.

As things stand, I'm pretty happy with my position - I've bled him significantly and taken relatively few casualties so far. The sheer number of troops seen on the far right and far left ( mostly on the right ), gives me cause to feel he can't have too much threatening the centre anymore - and the 81mm strike just below Bodin House next turn should reduce that threat even more.

The major worry is that he has used relatively little artillery up till now ( possibly he had to reset a couple of strikes when it turned out his FO was drunk ). So I have to remain as spread out as possible - particularly on the right as he's probably plotting a good linear strike on the next bocage line there.

We shall see. The next 10 minutes should decide things I reckon.

[Macisle]

Sorry, Baneman. I deleted the post before I saw your response. I thought I was remembering something incorrectly and didn't want to spark a conversation that might give away intel. However, in checking it, I was right and could have left the post as it was.

So, for readers, I commented that I was surprised that the Ami player had not used Bodin House and the Laval Farm for suppression attempts on German units defending the center from the Benoit Stables and the field-end bocage just N of Huet House (main schreck spot covering N/S road). I assumed Baneman's opponent was being wary of arty attacks on outside units, but still wondered why he had not used Bodin House to at least harass defenders in the Benoit Stables.

Yes, the attacker is in a bit of a catch-22. If he puts units close together to obtain fire superiority, he can, theoretically, easily overwhelm the stretched-out defender. But to do so gives the defender his own best chance of delivering body blows to the attacker via his arty. Of course, the defender is in the same boat to an extent, but being on defense, his interim tactical goals and use of the map offer other alternatives.

More in-depth analysis (from me, the designer, at least) will have to wait until the game finishes. But this map was born of a discussion about whether the game accurately depicts bocage fighting. Baneman and his opponent are fighting on a map that is as close as the current game version will allow to the real thing. So, we're seeing it play out with a realistic force mix (a thin infantry force backed up by good arty and some fortifications, trying to hold out against a muscular combined-arms force).

Baneman also just brought up something that I've been thinking about since starting the map--back and forth occupation of locations. That is something that I think does not happen as often on typical CM maps as it should. When reading accounts of real battles, it is mentioned often. Of course, it is still early in the game, but I am VERY interested to see how players feel such a map design impacts the feeling of realism in the combat--particulary with regards to buildings.

Of course, I'm wishing Baneman the best of success, but from a designer's standpoint, I'm itching to see how combat plays out in the hamlet itself. IMO, the weakest point of most CM maps is the distribution and layout of buildings. They tend to be very "gamey."

Speaking of which, thanks for the "black magic" compliment, kohlenklau. Yeah...to be honest, I've been a-hankerin' to make a small urban combat map. -Perhaps a section of period Carentan (the town is actually just to the W of this map, though the hamlet did not exist in this form at the time of the war). Hulu Japan just added Band of Brothers and I've been watching it. Must...fight...the...urge...

I don't want the missus to do a Columbo on me ("A foreigner was found dead today. It appears he committed ritual suicide after repeated failed attempts at learning Japanese. Lt. Columbo just happens to be on vacation in Japan and has volunteered to help local authorities look into it.").

I might wait until OMG is released before embarking on any new map projects. IIRC, BF is going to break form and include terrain additions (normally, only base modules have new terrain types--NOT expansions). So, I might wait to see what goodies arrive. -May have to revisit this map, too, to add stuff that was unavailable the first time.

But what I really want to do right now is add AI plans for the V2.x version of this scenario. I may actually have an attack plan with teeth. I think I can probably shock a human defender and give the AI attacker a chance. However, the problem comes after the initial success. Likely, there is no way to make the AI coordinate its armor and infantry, or move quickly enough to avoid being slaughtered by defending human arty. Particularly with a map this detailed, the AI may just be too limited. But wouldn't it be cool, if it had a chance!

However, I really can't work on anything right now (Golden Week is just catch-up time for us). Other than posting to this thread, I'm on a hiatus from all gaming. Otherwise, the missus is going to shove chopsticks up my nose (and perhaps other places...).

[Baneman]

@poesel71 and womble - thanks for the info re. KO delay on tanks.

In most of my games, tanks I've knocked out have provided the satisfying feedback of smoke, flames and/or red base quickly.

The fact that the first Stuart survived a schreck penetration is much more shocking - and as a wargamer, I, of course, will grumble and curse the dicerolls

Cheers

...

Baneman also just brought up something that I've been thinking about since starting the map--back and forth occupation of locations.

It's something I've learned from playing lots of CM1 when defending - if the attacker gives you any breathing space at all, you have to move from wherever you might have gained fire superiority to the next hotspot - if you get it right, you can fool the attacker that your line is much thicker than it is ( of course, if it goes wrong they arrive just in time to die in turn )

Of course, I'm wishing Baneman the best of success, but from a designer's standpoint, I'm itching to see how combat plays out in the hamlet itself. IMO, the weakest point of most CM maps is the distribution and layout of buildings. They tend to be very "gamey."

I think urban fighting is certainly CM2's weakness - particularly with the difficulty inherent in "peeking around the corner" that comes from the AS system. Nothing to be done about that for now, but in this case, if he gets in amongst the buildings I've been defending from, I'd probably have to concede the top half of the map if I'm to reorganise a new defense line - I wouldn't have the men to push him back out.

[Baneman]

Well, as frequently happens as soon as some optimistic commentary is given - "cricket commentator's curse" - things start to look bleak

Centre left the Faustie Boys and the HQ were told to pop smoke. As a survival measure when taking fire, you'd think they'd do it smartly, but no, incoming fire apparently stops them from hurling a grenade over their heads Only when they cause an enemy casualty in the house and thus slacken the incoming fire does one man throw the smoke grenade - in the last second of the turn - it's in flight. The HQ have yet to throw theirs, but now they may get a better chance.

My mortar strike came in towards the end of the turn so will carry on into the next. As the threat has lessened here, I'm moving a team to reinforce the far left which is going to hell.

Meanwhile on the far left, the light mortar strike is a bit wayward - seems to me it's too far forward to hit the previously hit ATG position, yet too far back to affect the hedgeline that might cover the brown field. Unfortunately one solitary round lands just far enough back to cancel the buddy aid as they all duck. Curses !

Forward of that, multiple enemy units are moving forward and #1 scout team now remain permanently panicked ( earlier they frequently recovered in the turn, only to panic moments before the end so that no orders could be given ). Scout team #2 fire on the unit near the gate by #1 team, only to take fire from directly across as more enemy have moved up here too. They take a casualty and panic in turn. The forward defence of this flank is now broken, hence my moving teams to cover the left facing hedgeline.

[Baneman]

Apologies for the width of these latest pics, it's getting harder to show everything in context.

Centre right.

I moved the house team back in to cover the front, but they immediately start taking fire from across the way - Laval Farm - it seems the Verdammt Tank has not moved away. Blast. That house is untenable and they're crawling straight back out - tired is better than dead. The one guy who survived the mortar attack is buddy aiding madly, but as I see sound contacts move right up to the hedgeline, I suspect he's going to die or surrender.

The tank is also curtailing my desire to move more men to cover the far right flank. He's got a nasty little keyhole over a hedge and I can't risk moving men into position. Foiled again !

On the far right, an new attempt to infiltrate the field on the far right is stopped when accurate fire kills at least one man. He can try crawling through the long grass, but as my still-trapped-by-Tired-status schreck team can attest - it's not easy. However, multiple new enemy teams are seen moving up, giving him a scary number of troops in this area. Also, my HQ was just a little too close to the hedgerow and takes a casualty from a stray bullet. It's the commander, naturally, so now all teams here are out of C2 and that much more brittle. His men buddy aided him, but did not get the MP40, so they have been moved up to the hedgeline as scratch riflemen. At the very end of the turn, a new Stuart appears on the far right - Mr Trundle o'Doom I presume - who has moved all the way across. My far right schreck man has buddy-aided the schreck off his fallen comrade so I've told him to try the long shot.

[Baneman]

Thing remain both good and bad. On the far left the mortar strike abates and the extreme left team once again begin to help their comrades. In fact, 2 of them are attending to 1 guy, clearly his boots and watch are of high quality. More and more enemy move up to the hedge opposite Scout Team #1 and continuous fire and grenades cause 1 casualty. Hugging the ground consistently has quite a high survival index. Less so is running across open ground. A single man tries to cross the open field at the back and is eventually hit.

Amazingly, despite taking more fire and a grenade, #2 Scout team recover and have been told to "hose" the opposite hedge.

Tank noises are heard near the entrance to the field. Now the gully is irresistible. Damn.

Centre left our 81mm mortars continue to come down, and we broke a French shed. As the Faustie Boys' smoke starts to take effect, they manage to hit another man in the house. Great shooting, they can now begin to buddy aid for their MG42 again. The relocating squad stopped to kibbitz with the Faustie Boys somewhat, but are arriving at their hedgeline at the end of the turn.

[Baneman]

Centre right and the sole survivor of the team at the front completes buddy aid, but somehow chose the guy with the ammo ( he more than doubles his ammo count ), not the guy with the MG42. He'll have to be really lucky to survive another turn. My HMG team exchanges fire with the enemy at the bocage and take a casualty. But there's also a problem.

The Problem

Even after I noticed the first time and redeployed them, they STILL deployed the HMG a metre short of the bocage. Complete muppets, they're now an understrength rifle team.

Seriously ? They still do this ?!

Why isn't "deploy the heavy weapon to fire from your covered position" default behaviour ? I thought this had been looked at, obviously not. Grrrrr

[Baneman]

On the far right, the new tank pulled back before the schreck guy could aim and fire. More and more enemy are moving up and trickling down the road. My fire seems ineffective so far and the primary defence team is taking fire from what is presumed to be a BAR. I'm pulling my victorious schreck team out in case he bombards this hedgeline. The team in the middle of the field are still Tired ( having been to Fatigued twice ). I'm hoping they can crawl another 8m next turn.

[Ithikial_AU]

Finally got to have a read of this thread. I've been testing V2.0 of the scenario blind, commanding the Americans and got stomped into the mud twice. Didn't even take the first objective.

And after reading this my opponent used a very different tactic to Baneman. Will be an interesting read going forward.

MacIsles will get back to you soon about feedback as promised.

[Baneman]

Things are starting to go pear-shaped rapidly. This is mostly due to the enemy having identified his strengths from his earlier experiences and he is now putting it into practice.

He now knows that his snouting tanks are virtually invulnerable and Mr Trundle o'Doom duly shows up at the centre right hotspot to back up his infantry. The team I moved up to suppress the hedgeline are now wondering who the fool is back at HQ that put them in harms way. The HMG I told to undeploy and redeploy. They only get the first half done and with the arrival of the tank, are going to be pulled out.

My suspicion that the far right hedgeline is going to be bombarded is confirmed by the sight of an enemy FO arriving ( we know this only because of that occult malarkey the Higher-Ups meddle with )

Anything worth doing is worth overdoing and so on the far left he does exactly the same thing. His infantry move up to the hedgeline, shoot down the survivors of #1 Scout team ( like dogs ) and a tank moves forward to snout through the next line. Things are about to become hot and unpleasant here too. #2 Scouts do recover and at the very least keep the opposing hedge quiet. The far left team complete their buddy aid and fail to get the fallen MP40

[Baneman]

Desperate times, so I have hatched a completely insane plan. The Faustie Boys are going to cross the road into the area I just bombarded. If they reach their destination, they will cause mayhem on the enemy in the road centre right. The smoke they dropped should give them some cover and hopefully the mortar strike will have removed the enemy presence.

It's a mad move with a low chance of success, but at the very least, it'll be the last thing he'll expect. The arrival of a new spotting round this turn has prompted the pulling back of the HQ and the other team opposite - after that shellacking, I doubt he's moving up to the hedgerow this turn.

[Baneman]

Our only hope is for our mortars to cause more havoc. On the far left, we have a 120mm strike coming in 1 minute. Unhappily, the enemy have moved too slowly to be in the primary kill zone, if he doesn't cross the road next turn, I'll have to cancel and replot - a 4 minute delay. My arty timing has been poor this battle - too quick or too slow.

On the right there's more hope. Two minutes to the main 81mm strike and a new one to try and take the whole road. It depends now whether he stays slow and steady -if he charges madly through the zone, my flank is probably in deep(er) trouble. You can also see some of my moves - trying to get at least 1 team away before the tank takes them all out.

[womble]

Is the 4 minute delay the cost for "adjusting" the mission, or would you be forced to start from scratch?

[Baneman]

Is the 4 minute delay the cost for "adjusting" the mission, or would you be forced to start from scratch?

A TRP strike has a 3 minute delay, but a Cease Fire also takes a full turn to take effect.

What I wouldn't give for an on-map mortar...

You don't seem to get the "Adjust Mission" with a TRP plotted strike. Pity, moving some of my strikes with a 1 minute delay cost would have been ideal.

[kohlenklau]

That seems odd, I played a PBEM QB on this map and used TRP's and was able to dance around the firing pattern with "adjust mission". Strange....

[Baneman]

@kohlenklau - not sure, I'm sure I saw the option on one of my early strikes and haven't seen it since.

Things are getting worse.

On the far left, #2 Scouts take out 1 or 2 guys trying to cross the road from the near gate.

But this is their last contribution as the Stuart reverses back into a covered snouting position and obliterates them.

Further left, clearly designed to thwart my mortar strike, the enemy move up as far on the flank as possible. A couple of teams are already at the nearest hedge ( obviously moved up while buddy aid was ongoing ). My buddy-aiding team fires and tosses a grenade - no visible effect. 2 other teams can see them - one directly across and my HMG that I moved into position last turn. The HMG doesn't seem to be firing ... I wonder why not.

HMG issue - a real doozy - I'm completely at a loss about why this happened. At the end of the previous turn, they had just arrived into this prepared position and deployed the MG42.

But then ...

Words fail me. Never seen anything like this before.

[Baneman]

Centre left, the mad dash is thwarted by (probably just one) survivors of the mortar bombardment. Damn, that's a pity, but it was a mad plan

New enemy infantry are moving down the roadside of the hedge as the right hand house has had to be evacuated by the Verdammt Tank. The team I pulled off the line will move up to their front next turn.

The HQ that went for ammo is now arriving back ( bottom of picture ). Another spotting round falls, close to the last one, so I'm fairly sure the bombardment will fall along the roadfacing hedge.

Centre right and things are much much worse. The enemy have realised that with the infantry support along the road, I can't keep AT assets close enough to threaten his tanks and he charges Mr Trundle o'Doom through the gap into the field, blazing away at my team on the right. He then reverses up so that he can fire on the ATG-ammo-bearer-scratch-MG34-team in the house. More infantry are arriving and crossing the road, with a couple of teams already following up the tank hugging the wall of the house. This whole area is going to pot and the roadway mortar strike is still 2 mins out. The other one further to the right is cancelled and will have to be respotted on the interior TRP - but that's 3 - 4 mins away. I may not hold this area that long.

Here's a picture from slightly further back showing where I ran the HMG to. Next turn I can deploy them against the hedge ( if they co-operate this time ) and at least cut down the enemy hugging the wall.

The ATG guys will have to abandon the house and move alongside the other team lying doggo. At least any enemy rushing that gate should be sorry.

Situation is not good. The hard shell is cracked and the enemy are very close to scooping out the gooey centre.

[mjkerner]

Baneman, this is a great AAR! It looks like that HMG team is in or damn close to a minefield. That might be affecting their behavior. it would mine!