Ron Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Textbook example by Bil on how to assault a position, classic. I don't think he has identified which side of the ridge road he will advance along, likely waiting for intel from the forward kubelwagens. He's got to be wondering now what GAJ has in store for him though I'm sure he will take it in stride and respond accordingly. I'm a little surprised at GAJ's deployment on the Tits and feel it is a wasted opportunity. It appears the barriers were not covered by fire which is no barrier at all and points just thrown away. He does have token forces covering the Tit's reverse slope. However, these units won't last long once exposed and it remains to be seen the exchange they can garner. Now he has opened up blindly with the forward Mortar hoping for something. I think he would have been better served with a minimum of a light AT gun, MG, Mortars, Barriers and TRPs acting in concert to cover the backside. That way he could have provided a more substantial obstacle as well as put a more substantial hurt on the attacker. While the first objective was a little anti climatic, I think things will begin livening up shortly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I've had good luck with 57s in terms of visibility (only) - they stay well hid. They don't have much punch though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I agree that the Tits should have had at least a BAR team each, not only to slow Bil down, but to confirm to GAJ precisely when the infantry had arrived, making a little mortar action that much more likely to do good damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Assuming at ATG team wanted to hide a 76mm in that location in RL, how would they try to conceal it more? Would they dig a pit for example to reduce its profile? Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Assuming at ATG team wanted to hide a 76mm in that location in RL, how would they try to conceal it more? Would they dig a pit for example to reduce its profile? Gerry The trouble with excavations is that the raw earth "spoil" is usually very distinct, visually, so unless you've got the option (time) of carting it away, or some means of disguising it, your visual signature doesn't improve (though protection might increase). So you could cut brush and pile it round your gun, but if it's the only "thornbush" that's big enough to hide a 76, it's likely to attract incoming just "because" (see Monty Python's How not to be seen sketch), and the brush needs replacing regularly, because it wilts and looks different to growing shrubberies. So it'd depend on the resources, including time, available to the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It al depends of the time the defending force would have available but masking it with vegetation is very easy to do and can be done very quickly. In our particular case branches from the surrounding bushes would be laid all over the gun making it much less visible regardless of it's size. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Blah, blah, blah, Bil, blah, blah. My advice to Martin is to be aggressive. Quit holding back. Kick Bil in the balls. Kill Bil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 ...be aggressive. Quit holding back. Kick Bil in the balls. Kill Bil. Thanks, Mr. Patton! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'm a little surprised at GAJ's deployment on the Tits and feel it is a wasted opportunity. It appears the barriers were not covered by fire which is no barrier at all and points just thrown away. I'm not so sure. GaJ's plan was to just use the Tits as an advanced outpost line and to abandon them as soon as a serious force got close. I can't see anything wrong with that line of thinking. As for all the fortification stuff, that was just visual deception to convince Bil that he planned a serious defense, so that Bil would have to deploy and make a methodical attack, thus slowing him down and wasting ammo. This is in fact what happened, so I'd say that part of the plan worked as intended. If GaJ's mortar get lucky and manages to hurt a squad or two, I'd call that the cherry on the sundae. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Sounds like Doug Williams is channeling my thoughts! I agree that GaJ's forward obstacles may've helped "sell" the Tits to Bil. In that case, not a loss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Blood, we want gallons of spilt blood! Teeth, hair and eyes all over the road! Arms, legs, and mutilated torsos flying through the air! Little pieces of unidentified body parts everywhere! Yeee-haaa! [sits down gasping for air and mopping face with handkerchief] Whew, I don't usually do this kind of thing. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Armchair General Helmet firmly in place - No doubt the presence of the barriers 'sold' the Tits to Bil and perhaps that is all to GAJ's intention and he is content with that. However, I don't think the name of the game is increasing the number of shell casings expended by your opponent. Likely a similar effect would have been achieved not putting anything there at all, as Bil, or any reasoning opponent, would have conducted the attack as if it was defended anyways. I think it is a given the attacker needs to secure this terrain before advancing and the defender had the opportunity imo to really make him pay for it. As an example, why not deploy the barriers on the reverse slope covered by a MG, Mortar, AT gun/bazooka and TRPs? I just think defending this position was too good a chance to throw away. Time will tell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'm not so sure. GaJ's plan was to just use the Tits as an advanced outpost line and to abandon them as soon as a serious force got close. I can't see anything wrong with that line of thinking. As for all the fortification stuff, that was just visual deception to convince Bil that he planned a serious defense, so that Bil would have to deploy and make a methodical attack, thus slowing him down and wasting ammo. This is in fact what happened, so I'd say that part of the plan worked as intended. If GaJ's mortar get lucky and manages to hurt a squad or two, I'd call that the cherry on the sundae. Michael I agree. That being the plan I am a little surprised GaJ didn't spring for a couple of TRP's to quickly paste the area with arty though once he spotted Bill's infantry. On other matters... Seems unusual that the JPz spotted the ATG so quickly. I was under the impression ATG's are generally quite difficult to spot, more so for armoured units. But c'est la Combat Mission. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The fortifications are not free - it was probably a straight swap in terms of points, if not a loss to GaJ - a few shells are not such an expense, but those foxholes and wire were probably worth a squad or more in points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'm not sure a reverse slope defense of the Tits would be very profitable. The flanking elements of Bil's forces are already drawing area LOS to where resistance would have to be sited, and GaJ I believe recognised this in his pre-battle analysis. Some TRPs though might have been a better buy than the wire and foxholes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlife Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'm with the no fortification crowd. Bil was assaulting the hill before he saw the wire and foxholes. I would have spent those points on an extra sniper team or two on the reverse slope to harass the guys coming over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'm not sure a reverse slope defense of the Tits would be very profitable. The flanking elements of Bil's forces are already drawing area LOS to where resistance would have to be sited, and GaJ I believe recognised this in his pre-battle analysis. Some TRPs though might have been a better buy than the wire and foxholes. Covering the barriers with fire does not mean having to have men physically present at the barriers. This is WWII afterall 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Covering the barriers with fire does not mean having to have men physically present at the barriers. This is WWII afterall It does in this case, if you don't want the cover providers to be presenting a forward slope defense to Bil's potential overwatch positions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 On other matters... Seems unusual that the JPz spotted the ATG so quickly. I was under the impression ATG's are generally quite difficult to spot, more so for armoured units. But c'est la Combat Mission. -F This is what really bugs me about The CMx2 series at the moment. It may not have Borg spotting anymore but instead we have infa-red like spotting from AFV's to replace it! Movement is what attracts attention to your existence on a battlefield and for that JgPzIV to simply saunter up to the ridge and then spot the emplaced AT gun so easily is laughable. In reality, the AT gun would be camouflaged and seeing as it hasn't moved, be virtually impossible to spot yet in this case it was out spotted and out drawn by the AFV. Ridiculous! Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Lots of assumptions there to get so worked up about it being spotted. It's big, it was on a forward slope and it looks like it spotted the JgPz first, GaJ just made the call to wait for a better shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Such a poor choice of location for an AT gun deserves to be punished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I would have let the gun fire at the Jagdpz. A hit on the tracks would have been as good as a kill. In my gaming experience, the only hard to spot AT guns in CMx2 are the ones that poke through bocage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 In CM AT guns are rather prone to be knocked out rather quickly, if they are not partially hidden and or engaging frontally. In RL they are naturally set in such a way that besides the muzzle you don’t see anything else. Besides, net and foliage, good use are done of whatever makes it blend in the environment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 This is what really bugs me about The CMx2 series at the moment. It may not have Borg spotting anymore but instead we have infa-red like spotting from AFV's to replace it! ... Leaving out the spotting of the ATG for the moment, I find the fact that Bil's JgPzIV has now spotted a Bunker waaaay in the distance is much more unlikely. If anything should be getting a concealment bonus, you'd think it would be a bunker. Infantry should be lucky to spot it, never mind an AFV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Wouldn't it be great if we could purchase camouflage which would give a considerable concealment bonus to any unit that hasn't moved. Better yet allow players the ability to auto camouflage the way that CMx1 would allow you to auto dig-in in the setup phase. Of course the concealment bonus would stay in effect until the unit moves or fires. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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