AXIS : Gustav Line BETA AAR Round Two - Eye of the Elefant

[akd]

May I ask you where you got that nice contour map? I have been searching the internet with poor results... Would like to use them for my own battle plans.

http://www.pcn.minambiente.it/viewer/

Immagini --> Carta IGM scala 25.000

[Bil Hardenberger]

akd that is a great resource! Slow loading, but cares?

[Mingan]

http://www.pcn.minambiente.it/viewer/

Immagini --> Carta IGM scala 25.000

Awesome. Thank you!

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Fourth Minute

2nd Squad continues its slow bounding advance towards the Left Tit objective. Each team has staggered pauses built into their movement path so one of the teams will be stationary and overwatching while the other moves. They are moving towards unknown enemies so I am taking great care of them.

Looking at this image I think I am starting to understand why I like this lighting mode so much.. the screenshots give the appearance of an Andrrew Wyeth painting.. one of my favorite artitsts.

They do uncover some obstacles on each Tit objective... note that each of these has a gap.. could there be mines there? Interestingly the obstacles on the Left Tit are on the reverse slope.. is he planning a reverse slope defense for these? That would be a good idea except my right side Sturmpanzer can see onto the reverse slopes of each of these little hills.

These views are looking back towards my forces (South).

Here is a view of some of the support vehicles for the assault on these objectives. Note that 1st Squad's halftrack is mostly hidden behind the building, and the Platoon Leader halftrack and the Elefant are both hulldown.

My mortar in support never fired its smoke mission... unfortunately it's view was blocked by 1st Platoon's halftracks as they motored on by.

Speaking of 1st platoon.. did I neglect to mention that the Platoon Leader is driving around in a fancy 251/10?

I have decided to move my Jpz IV to the crest of Hill 130 finally. This will close the ridge road (or about 75% of it) to enemy traffic as he will have LOS to most of it's stretch. From this position he will also have a great view of the Spur objective, into S. Maria Infante itself, and onto the Hill 172 and Observation Point ridge. The depression behind the Spur will still elude my view however.

This move might force GaJ to commit something before he is really ready. We'll see.

[John Kettler]

Bil,

I noticed a very interesting shader artifact on a certain piece of steel, on the top edge. Looks sawtoothed! Would say more, but OPSEC rules. War movie lighting is starting to grow on me. A bit. You've got some great pics. I especially like the peekaboo AFV and the modest one hiding behind a bush!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Offshoot]

I noticed a very interesting shader artifact on a certain piece of steel, on the top edge

I think it has always been there, but the increased contrast of the movie mode seems to exacerbate it. It will also depend on what anti-aliasing settings Bil is using.

[Mingan]

I think it has always been there

Yep. Not an artifact. Just result of limited resolution on our viewing devices.

[snake_eye]

@Bil Hardenberger

Smart looking topo map, it would be more difficult to follow the troops and tracks without it.

OCOKA well done as usual with a military analysis professionalism allowing a clear understanding of how the ground features and the potential enemy forces might affect the tactical assault and subsequent movements.

I have become accustomed to the shots lighting and finally, found them easier to look at, than the usual colour and somehow brighter one.

About the starting battle it does not seem to me, like it is going to be easy compare to the previous one. Personally, I have put aside my plans not judging them adequate once I get to the Tits.

I have some preference for securing the left of the map height first to secure a fire base. I don’t like at all the road that I should rather avoid as much as I can.

I am also uncertain about the cross country ability of the Elephant, thinking that it may be bogged more or less quite easily (if the game model takes its known inability)

That AAR promises to be an interesting CMFI tactical school battle drill for all of us players.

Thanks for that battle.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Fifth Minute

A few more barricades come into view on the Left Tit.. so GaJ might have placed them straight across both hills.. attempting to block them from vehicular traffic perhaps? Well, that is why I brought along a platoon of pioneers.

After 5 minutes and still not a sign of enemy forces anywhere on the map. He is staying low.. and I am getting more and more convinced that he has something nasty waiting for me on the reverse slopes of the two tits. I am staying cautious however.

Here is a nice shot showing B team from 2d Squad advancing by rush while the covering fire passes overhead.

I made a little error last time I gave my orders.. I had moved the target line of all of my support by fire units to better cover the ridge on the Left Tit and accidentally gave the Elefant a target order instead of target light... so they threw away several rounds this turn. Damn. Pretty impressive rate of fire however, around 10 seconds between shots.

Here is the advance plan for the two teams from 2d Squad. They are advancing by rushes and then go over to hunt when they get within 100 meters.

Elsewhere the recon kw's are pushing deeper into their zones.. the left most kw has reached the edge of the wood line and will be dismounting next turn in order to continue on foot.

The Jpz IV has reached the top of Hill 130 and begun its vigil.

1st PzG Platoon has almost completed its movement and the squad from 2d Platoon has split off a recon team and started on its way to reconnoiter the center of the left side.

All is quiet.. except at the Left Tit.. it isn't a very subtle attack and I'm sure he knows I'm coming... it could get tense I believe in the next few turns.

Finally, I told you earlier that I would update these overlays as I received more information.. so here is the updated Obstacle overlay showing the recently discovered barriers on the Left Tit and Right Tit objectives:

[Bil Hardenberger]

I have some preference for securing the left of the map height first to secure a fire base. I don’t like at all the road that I should rather avoid as much as I can.

Yes the left side of the map interests me greatly as well.. the S Ridge worries me as it could be a great base for an AT defense and the depression behind it could hide a Company of armor... however where I disagree with you is regarding the road.

It could potentially split my force in two parts if I advance down the valleys on either side.. that would make it difficult for one force to support the other if necessary.

Additionally, the road is a higher elevation than the S-Ridge and the Spur objectives.. this means that anything I have on top will be looking down on them and I should be able to find some nice hulldown positions on that ridge.

I also think he might be expecting me to advance through the valleys but the more I look at them the more I am getting convinced that they could be costly if he has armor or ATGs lining the flanks of them, I know I would so why wouldn't he? I'm not saying that I won't advance through them.. but I will feel safer if I can support from a superior position on the ridge road.

The ridge road also allows me to keep my force on interior lines and allows mutually supporting maneuver wherever I need it. With the Elefant up there and the Panzer Platoon nearby I can quickly react to any movement that GaJ attempts on either side of the map.

From the Ridge Road I can assault the Spur objective from the flank rather than the front.. which obviously would be best. It could also unhinge his defense if he is oriented towards a right valley approach by my forces.

I will need to determine how mined up the road is.. but there is no way he could afford enough mines to close it completely... and I have my Pioneers to clear a way through any obstacles as required.

Once I finally get to the other side of the Tits I will have a better idea of what I am up against... and these objectives could give me some valuable clues as to how GaJ plans on defending his objectives.

Finally, there is no need to hurry... with over an hour to fight yet I can afford to take this initial movement to contact stage carefully and deliberately.

Anyway.. that's my thinking on the subject! FWIW

[snake_eye]

@Bil Hardenberger

I can’t deny that your analysis is good. The one that is holding the height is the one that has a view on the enemy. That is a good place to be, to launch an attack from there, to defend and or have an OP. It is best to have artillery assets and some observers over there to pickup and call fire mission on enemy discovered emplacements.

However that place is one the enemy is surely having in its cross hair sight. To what extend GaJ has it ?

To attack soon and or later the spur from the flank sounds better than frontally, but it would be surprising if GaJ has no LOS on its rear.

I don’t trust the road movement for anything bigger than a squad or two, but they could bring you quite a lot of Intel. Looking at one of your previous picture of the landscape, the road does not look like having enough concealment on its right.

That is why, I still prefer the left axis toward Hill 109 and then 126. Like you, I don’t trust the valleys. They usually are a trap, a funnel with a good kill zone.

However, I think that the one on the left could be used as long as someone stays on its far right close to the road embankment hidden by the numerous trees. The danger would come from Hill 109 and 126 at least as long as they have not been covered, suppressed and or overtaken.

Hill 109 and 126 once taken, they afford a good view on the left side of the leading road and also on the one curling its way from 128 to the 150 crossroad.

Just a thought, you are right saying that having the Elephant on the road and Grenadiers nearby, you can have them react on either side of it. However you wrote that the Elephant took 10 seconds to fire that is, without moving. If it has to point to a target its gun it has to move since it has a limited traverse. That takes time, meanwhile its side could be a perfect target for a good AT gunner.

A last thought having read lately the diary of Rommel from 1940 in France to the end in Tunisia in 1943. He always insisted in attacking the enemy at the most unusual place, with most of his forces ( attacking only one formation at a time) and from there redeploy and attack the remaining forces that had been split due to the ground configuration. It is easier written than done.

“ALEAS JACTA EST” as Caesar said it while crossing the Rubicon. Let’s go for the road, may the gods of war be with us and the Elephant !

Cheer

[Rocky Balboa]

@Snake-Eye I have seen your comments in the Peanut gallery thread ... Please don't give advice to the combatants since its obvious you are familiar with the disposition of the forces on both sides.

[c3k]

snake_eye: It sounds like you're dangerously close to crossing a line. Giving advice is not something that responsible members have done. Ask questions, get information and behind-the-scenes thoughts: do not give advice, alternatives, ideas, or suggestions.

Keep it in the Peanut Gallery if you want a give and take. Otherwise, rein it in just a tad.

No one wants you to inadvertantly skew the battle.

Thanks,

Ken

[Bil Hardenberger]

Thanks to Rocky and Ken for the assist.

Yeah I was going to respond but thought better of it.. you guys know me by now, I think I have a fairly good handle on how to manage these battles. Win or lose I prefer to do it on my own terms.

That being said I do love the back and forth and as long as you are not suggesting or providing intelligence, all other comments are welcome and encouraged.

The time to take counsel of your fears is before you make an important battle decision. That's the time to listen to every fear you can imagine!

When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead!

George S. Patton

I'm still collecting facts, until I get a picture of GaJ's defense I cannot make a decision on how to really begin to dismantle it.

[snake_eye]

@Ken and Rocky Balboa

Well thanks guys, I don’t want to spoil anything. If in the peanut gallery we can speak freely I have constantly in mind that this is not the case over here.

I was just replying to Bil following my previous post and only referring to what I read in his post. I was arguing with him about its decision to attack along the road after having taken and or reached the Tits. That can be understood and assessed from the pictures and the Topo map that Bil has given us. More I am not considering and or taking in account any Intel besides the ones being given by Bil. All that has been written is a point of view of a tactical analysis deriving from Bil Intel.

If I prefer the left side and Bil, the center road, that comes from the way we are analyzing that battle and not from anything else. He might be right and I might be wrong, or it could be the contrary. That we will find out.

We have to keep in mind that to guess what the opponent is doing, might do or will do, does not necessarily mean that we have read his post. Bil formation allows him to draw a clear picture of an opponent. In his Military times he might have guessed rightly the OOB and the disposition of Red forces without having relied on that much Intel on some occasion.

We must also have in mind that to a tactical situation there is always a tactical resolution. At least that is what you learn. Seeking Intel is necessary to confirm and or change your initial analysis.

I wrote about the Rommel‘s diary, because he had quite a lot of successes in France and in Africa for doing things that no general would have dare done. We could say abruptly that instead of coming by the door which was expected by all (Historical tactic learned in Military College)) he came by the roof !

That is why it was difficult to apprehend and guess what he was about to do. Since he was not giving information to the higher up and resolutely staying out of communication while preparing its move, no intercept could give an early warning (and I am not speaking about ULTRA that played against him)

So don’t be worry, about the Intel, when there are none on my part, but just analysis.

Anyway, I shall follow the progress of Bil and follow your advice, I would hate to spoil a battle I take pleasure to read.

Cheer

[snake_eye]

Thanks to Rocky and Ken for the assist.

//..................................//

That being said I do love the back and forth and as long as you are not suggesting or providing intelligence, all other comments are welcome and encouraged..

I have read your post after having replied to Ken and Rocky.

Despite their fear, which I understand, there were no Intel on my part just analysis. That is the problem when you have done these a great part of your working time. Guessing what the other guy is doing, or about to do, became something natural for me quite a long time ago.

No offense, looking forward for your road plan and another one you might pull out of your sleeve.

Cheer

[Bil Hardenberger]

snake-eye were you an intel analyst? That was my job in the Army.. however you cannot come to an educated guess unless you actually have some enemy information.. currently I have no information other than what the terrain provides so my initial movements are all terrain focused... once I start to come to grips with the enemy force I will make my decisions based on those.

Bil

[Michael Emrys]

Looking at this image I think I am starting to understand why I like this lighting mode so much.. the screenshots give the appearance of an Andrrew Wyeth painting.. one of my favorite artitsts.

Interesting point and I think you are right. I like Wyeth too, but I don't think I am looking for CM to look like a Wyeth painting.

Michael

[Bil Hardenberger]

Interesting point and I think you are right. I like Wyeth too, but I don't think I am looking for CM to look like a Wyeth painting.

I wasn't looking for that either Michael.. the similarities just struck me is all.

Bil

[snake_eye]

@Bil Hardenberger,

Yes, I know you were an Intel Analyst.

No I was not an Intel Military Analyst, but I did frequent Engineering Analysis.

That means that from an element being available or from drawings and or pictures of it, you are doing some reverse engineering to find out, how it has to been done, how and with what it could be used and where it could be done.

That means also that you are seeking and relying on Intel from peoples having designed, used and or worked on these elements. That covers the design, the materials used, the process and even the maintainability of the element

That covers also deception scheme in order to protect an element. The most you talk and or write about it the best it is protected. In other words you let the “enemy” think that he has gotten the right thing and you might even help him in getting what he wants.

That means finally that from all the pieces of the puzzle you have found, you might have to find a way to improve and or design a better element.

All these things are not so far from what a Military Intel Analyst is doing, only the elements and tools being used are different, but it is done (technically speaking) somehow the same way.

Like you do in your unfolding battle, I never, in these analyses, had a judgement before having a sufficient and sound knowledge. As matter of fact it happened quite frequently to work on multiple hypotheses, before reorienting on what was thought a sound one.

Cheer

[Broadsword56]

Interesting point and I think you are right. I like Wyeth too, but I don't think I am looking for CM to look like a Wyeth painting.

Michael

LOL -- I can just see someone Photoshopping a CMFI soldier reclining (well, in this case it would likely be a corpse) in wavy tall grass with a house in the distance to re-create "Christina's World!"

[Michael Emrys]

LOL -- I can just see someone Photoshopping a CMFI soldier reclining (well, in this case it would likely be a corpse) in wavy tall grass with a house in the distance to re-create "Christina's World!"

Yeah, something along those lines occurred to me too. Christina's World is probably his most famous painting, at least outside the art world per se.

Michael

[Vark]

By chance I have the first screen shot of the CM-Pacific module

http://prints.encore-editions.com/0/500/america-artist-art-paintings-prints-note-cards-by-n-c-wyeth-marines-landing-on-the-beach-1944-approximate-original-size-42x30.jpg

[Andrew H.]

The Fifth Minute

I made a little error last time I gave my orders.. I had moved the target line of all of my support by fire units to better cover the ridge on the Left Tit and accidentally gave the Elefant a target order instead of target light... so they threw away several rounds this turn. Damn. Pretty impressive rate of fire however, around 10 seconds between shots.

How many rounds does the Elefant carry? The Brummbar? Do you know the Brummbar's ROF?

[ASL Veteran]

Do'h, got myself confused.