House damage idea

[DasMorbo]

Hello folks!

I go a porposal to BFC for a little improvement to the ambience and feel of our beloved game, especially concerning battles in urban areas.

As I am pretty new to the community I don't know if this issue has been discussed already (I searched a bit for hints but found none).

So I want a little feedback from you if you share my ideas.

Here is the point:

To me it seems like the buildings tend to show WAY to few signs of damage, compared to what happened to them.

In short: Citys and villages look to 'clean' after the fighting ends.

Examples:

These two houses behind the panther took two 4 gun quick 105er stonks right next to them (on the Panther ) plus a 50 shot

area stonk by the same battery. At least 4 direct hits to the building forming the edge - it looks like nothing happened at all.

This block of buildings took just as much rounds as the open area in front, at least 15 direct 105er hits - visual representation zero. :confused:

Idea

I got two ways to improve the 'feel' of urban fighting in the game.

First idea should be relatively simple to handle. As far as I understand it should be fairly easy to tweak the damage values of objects at which they show certain forms of battle-damage. So it would be nice to set the damage values at wich houses show damaged roofs and walls pretty low while keeping the value at which they colapse at its normal setting. I think this would represent reality much better, as towns used to look haggard very quickly after becoming a battle zone.

Second idea concerns small-arms fire. With my limited concepts of coding, I think this might be difficult to realise if small-arms fire isn't set to do any damage to buildings at all. In this particular battle from which the screenies are taken, I had some rather intense infantry battles. These were on the order of an estimated 2000-3000 rounds fired in 60 seconds, several times. Again the blocks on which they occured showed no damage. I know there is a 'damaged-wall' texture for buildings. Can it be done so this texture is triggered by certain amounts of small arms fire?

So what do you guys think about it?

Cheers

Olf

[markwaugh]

Well i think you should start from the entrance of the house then focus on the roof. Actually i am also bit confused. Lets see what others have to say.

[John Kettler]

DasMorbo,

I like your ideas, but the marketing presentation needs work. Your pics are so murky as to be all but useless for your intended purpose.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Pak40]

DasMorbo, I think you've got a good point for artillery. If a 105mm can leave a big crater in the ground then it will sure as hell leave a big hole in the roof. but, you have to understand that the building damage in CMBN is abstracted. Even though the damage isn't showing, the damage is still there. Once it gets to a certain level of damage then the in-game graphic will show to reflect that.

I think eventually CM games will evolve to a point where there's a lot less abstraction, but I don't think it will happen for CMx2 engine.

[agusto]

So what do you guys think about it?

I think that the damaged wall texture you mentioned should be triggered by a smaller amount of damage than it currently requires.

[A Canadian Cat]

DasMorbo, I think you've got a good point for artillery. If a 105mm can leave a big crater in the ground then it will sure as hell leave a big hole in the roof. but, you have to understand that the building damage in CMBN is abstracted. Even though the damage isn't showing, the damage is still there. Once it gets to a certain level of damage then the in-game graphic will show to reflect that.

I think eventually CM games will evolve to a point where there's a lot less abstraction, but I don't think it will happen for CMx2 engine.

While totally true I also think the OP's point is a good one. It seems that visual representation of building damage happens in steps. Which makes perfect sense. Perhaps to make a visual improvement a few more steps can be added and have them show up at lower levels of damage. Of course that would take work and require less work be done elsewhere in the game - the usual trade off.

[Pak40]

While totally true I also think the OP's point is a good one. It seems that visual representation of building damage happens in steps. Which makes perfect sense. Perhaps to make a visual improvement a few more steps can be added and have them show up at lower levels of damage. Of course that would take work and require less work be done elsewhere in the game - the usual trade off.

Yea, seems like it will be more work for the artists and modders.

Hopefully some day the CM engine will have true degradable buildings based on actual round impacts, sort of like how there are currently crater impacts on the ground. Not likely to happen soon though.

[sburke]

DasMorbo, love the idea. There is one thing to note though, Modular buildings versus independent ones. They have differing damage models and personally I think the independents add lots more visual effect. I do not know what the damage depiction does for effect on buildings. I believe Sgt Schultz had mentioned that setting damage increments weakens the structure. I don't know if that is across the board or just removing floors or what. Also if you set the increment low for depiction while setting the structural effect to a minimum you could have some unforeseen consequences. For example infantry fire opening up holes in the side of an independent structure exposing the units hiding within while actually having little effect on the structure. You could even end up with hollow 3 story buildings that stay 3 stories despite having no walls on any side...

Just some thoughts but as to the original statement, yeah I like a battered looking town when I am fighting for it.

If BF was willing to consider it one option might be to add several damage level increments and then just assign the same model to several. The modders could then fill in the additional levels if desired. BF gets the benefit of providing us with the option while hopefully minimizing the additional work/maintenance on their part.

[DasMorbo]

Hi Guys!

My provider shutted down my internet connection for 10 days to harras me for being an informed consumer (that's no exaggeration). So I couldn't answer.

Thanks for the interest in those points I made. Yeah the pictures are murky, but I had no scenario at hand which showed this effect that strongly. If you glue your eye to the monitor you will probaply see what I mean - the houses show absolutely no roof damage despite 105mm impacts every twenty meters in the roads.

About the points you made:

Degradable buildings would be fancy but are a bit much to ask for I think. That's something very complicated to implement.

Adding a few more building damage steps is the way to go I think. But as sburke has said, it has to be done carefully to not become bugged. An example of 'good changes turn arkward' can be observed with this MG effectiveness alteration - the game feels very bugged now.

Best regards

Olf