Gustav Line QB AAR - Allied

[c3k]

How close to the nail head? Well, we'll have to stay tuned to find out!

Who's turn is it? MORE!!!

[John Kettler]

Bil,

I think, in light of your ability to read unit numbers, that BFC needs to do something about this vital, free intel which neither side should have in a meeting engagement. After all, we're not talking about reading regimental flags through a telescope here. Last I checked, no army wore company level insignia on its typical infantry uniforms. Armor? Another matter entirely!

Nor, in a dynamic situation, do I feel that the SIGINT troops in this time period could do real time analysis at this level, so that explanation offered by someone else wouldn't appear to hold water, either.

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

Bil,

I think, in light of your ability to read unit numbers, that BFC needs to do something about this vital, free intel

Which could be thoroughly misleading (see previous posts), so it's hardly "vital". Unit numbers are the least of the problems with FOW in QBs.

[Michael Emrys]

To be honest I think he is acting a bit confused...

Sometimes—rarely—being confused can pay off, if you are confused in the right way at the right time. The reason being if you do something crazy enough, it might be something your opponent is completely unprepared to meet. But it mustn't be so crazy that it creates a situation that you yourself are unprepared to meet or exploit.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

Sometimes—rarely—being confused can pay off, if you are confused in the right way at the right time. The reason being if you do something crazy enough, it might be something your opponent is completely unprepared to meet.

Drunken boxing.

[Baneman]

Bil,

I think, in light of your ability to read unit numbers, that BFC needs to do something about this vital, free intel which neither side should have in a meeting engagement. After all, we're not talking about reading regimental flags through a telescope here. Last I checked, no army wore company level insignia on its typical infantry uniforms. Armor? Another matter entirely!

Nor, in a dynamic situation, do I feel that the SIGINT troops in this time period could do real time analysis at this level, so that explanation offered by someone else wouldn't appear to hold water, either.

Regards,

John Kettler

I've been harping on the fact that you know what are HQ's, FO's etc. since CMBN came out.

Then Steve realised in one post that we're only talking about the GUI text ( think he thought we were moaning about something far more deeply embedded in the code ).

He said he'd speak to Charles about it, but that was a while back and nothing more has been heard about it.

Would love to know if it's still under consideration - Phil ? Steve ? anybody ?

( sorry about the hijack... )

[ForwardObserver]

Not a strange question at all...

Thank you for the prompt response, Bil

...well I think I have about analyzed his force make up to death so I do believe I have that pretty much is hand.

As for what he is up to? Yeah he does have me scratching my head at times... and I am reacting to him rather than making him react to me right now.. but that is primarily due to his tanks.. not sure what he is planning to do with them and I want to set up to take them on from the best possible positions. Until they are dealt with then I can't safely maneuver against his force on my right.

Well, this is a meeting engagement. So figuring out your opponent intentions and plans is a matter of acquiring enough information on his movements and the location of his forces. In this respect Bil, I think you're doing exceedingly well, and you already knew about him what those "radio intercepts" suggested

However, all this information you've gathered so far should be taken with a grain of salt. Look too hard into it, and you'll eventually see whatever you fancy. I think as well that you're already past that, and you're starting to formulate a plan which does indeed include as a precondition to "deal" with its tanks.

Yet I think that dealing with its tanks means forcing him to expose them, and that will only happen if you force that decision (to expose the tanks) on him. As I read from your answer, the plan is to destroy his forces on your right. I'd suggest to bit the bullet and maneuver, with your tanks in overwatch. You might get some casualties, but probably you'll be able to knock out his tanks as well.

To be honest I think he is acting a bit confused... his large force on my left has been pretty inactive, like he is unsure what to do with them.. his force on my right has placed itself in a hollow and hunkered down so that when I get a Sherman on that center ridge it is going to be very uncomfortable for him, but they seem stuck in neutral... his tanks taking that hard left turn seems an odd move.. as if he changed his mind about what to do with them.

I could be wrong but he seems afraid to make a move... how close to the nail head am I?

(Rolls a die). Atmospheric conditions aren't very good, and the only thing your radio operators get from the German radio frequencies is static.

Now more seriously, I think you should consider the following:

1) This is a Meeting Engagement. And ME's have this "Thompson & Thompson" thing of "not wanting to be the first one to walk through a door". Undecisive behavior and ME's go hand in hand.

2) Assume that GaJ is a rational player (something he's). Therefore, he will be trying to formulate and execute plans which efficiently achieve his goals (whatever those are, yet the possible goals are quite obviously depicted, in my opinion). I think it's reasonable to consider as "efficient plan", the plans that achieve goals quicker and minimizing casualties. Both of this things imply either avoiding or neutralizing enemy threats by matching up assets in a suitable manner.

Now I know you're very familiar with Dave O'Connor Command Ops engine, so you have seen countless time how the AI in that fine game tends to ditch plans when a previously unknown threat appears. Depending on force composition, this causes the AI to reassess the situation and possibly replan.

The only question you still to find the answer is: of all of your assets you can be positive he's seen so far, and given what you already know of his force composition, which of your assets do you think he finds the most threatening?

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Twenty-Third Minute - Elation and Frustration

The Left - so.. GaJ lost at least seven FJ troopers on the left. The survivors ran screaming like little girls back over the ridge.

Also GaJ's HMG team took some damage from my Sherman in the center... hopefully that will quiet him for a few turns.

My Sherman pulled into its hull down position and immediately spotted a PziIVH sitting fat and happy and ripe for the plucking....

...unfortunately my Sherman sat in that beautiful hull down position for over 30 seconds without taking a shot.. it cycled between spotting - aiming - firing and never pulled the trigger.

Right at the end of the turn the Pz-IV got a spot on my tank and fired just as the turn ended. Of course. Frustrating, no?

[Alan8325]

Bummer when that happens. Hopefully your hull-down position pays off and he gets a miss or bounce off your hull.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Bummer when that happens. Hopefully your hull-down position pays off and he gets a miss or bounce off your hull.

All you can do is place your assets in the best possible positions and then cross your fingers.

[Vinnart]

.unfortunately my Sherman sat in that beautiful hull down position for over 30 seconds without taking a shot.. it cycled between spotting - aiming - firing and never pulled the trigger.

Usually when they cycle aiming, firing, (and not actually firing) that means LOF is blocked even though may look like it shouldn’t be.

[tarzan]

I love CM for taking my best laid plans and treating them to big can of Whoopass Reality - it seems so much like real-life in that regards. Gotta love it after the tears are over

GaJ's tank is like the AI - the shot is in the air at the end of the turn and then there's the break for commerical. It reminds me of an old fashioned duel and your opponent took the first shot and you're gritting your teeth to see if you will ever have a chance to fire back, even it his shot hit's home but you're still alive

[c3k]

Oooh, the old "and then the turn ended with the incoming round frozen in midair"!

Keep 'em coming.

[Andrew H.]

Oooh, the old "and then the turn ended with the incoming round frozen in midair"!

Keep 'em coming.

I hope not followed by Bil leaving on an extended business trip.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Twenty-Fourth Minute

Alright let's get this over with.. but I do not want to dwell on it.. the fact that I had a superior position with a spotted enemy tank in my sights for over 30 seconds and this tank never got a shot off was already a bitter pill for me... I have nothing but disgust for this result... 'nuff said:

On my left GaJ appears to be shifting his troops.. perhaps to attack my center?

On my left he is also hunting forward with at least one squad... also spotted was this Company HQ element.. I believe he might be planning on dropping some artillery onto my forces on this side of the map...

I identified the second tank.. another Pz-IVH... it was moving in reverse up the slope when I lost sight of it.. obviously covering the movement of my Sherman in the center.

So I know now what I am up against:

- 5 Rifle Company and 8 Weapons Company - on my left

- 6 Rifle Company on my right

- At least two Pz-IV-Hs.... from what I have seen or heard, I don't think he has any other tanks or vehicles. Very interesting.

I have not given orders yet.. I need to think on it a bit.

[c3k]

Think!?!! You need to ATTACK!! Let the brainiacs back in HQ, the guys with the size 9 hats, let them ~think~. YOU are a commander! COMMAND! That's right, "follow me, boys! At 'em!" Oo-rah.

[Bil Hardenberger]

You are killing me Ken. Trying to attack is how I ended up with a Sherman burning on the field.

___________________________________________________________________________

Maybe I'm overthinking this battle (yes Ken I'm wearing my size 10 helmet).. but this is what I know:

Facts:

-- GaJ has one Rifle Company plus two tanks on my right...

---- What this has done is shift the balance of power on this flank. I am not in a position to counter the power they wield right now.

-- There does not appear to be any enemy armor on my left.

-- GaJ has two companies, one Rifle and one Weapons company on my left.

---- I believe that this is now the enemy force that is the most fragile.

I know this is going to look like I can't make up my mind, but I am going to evacuate the right in stages.. reasoning? Well with the two Pz-IVs sitting on that side and right now no way for me to mass against him without too much risk and with the fear that his company HQ team is calling for artillery on my infantry this flank no longer feels as secure as it once did.

Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions...He who can modify his tactics in relation to his opponent, and thereby succeed in winning, may be called a heaven-born captain.

Sun Tzu

I am beginning with pulling out two platoons, one with an HMG team will withdraw and load back up on the trucks.

The other will go through the gap where the destroyed buildings sit and into the center valley. With them I will also be pulling a Stuart into the center valley.

I believe I can get angles on the force on my left and interdict it with long range tank fire.. I am bringing my infantry to defend the center and keep it trapped in the bowl it is sitting in.

If he attempts to bring his tanks to their support he will have to come over the ridges into my fields of fire... I should have some warning that he is making this move.

[Wodin]

Bil that was tough....I'd be pretty damn annoyed myself. Still the War must go on.

[Tempestzzzz]

Now DO IT NOW! Use a human wave attack to break the Germans. Make your Shermans the spearpoint-don't wait for the infantry. Grease your treads with their soldiers.

UHrahhhhh!!!!

[Baneman]

c3k is right !

You now have an unhorsed tank crew - thus the advantage is all yours. With your supermen in the lead, an full charge is sure to succeed

[Andrew H.]

I agree; it's time to show some "moral fibre" and charge.

I just wish that CM had a separate "Fix Bayonets" command; I'm not sure that the AI does it as I would wish.

[General Lee Irked]

It's time to nut up or shut up.... Bil do what you want, either way I am captivated by these AAR's.

Cheers

[slysniper]

Facts:

-- GaJ has one Rifle Company plus two tanks on my right...

---- What this has done is shift the balance of power on this flank. I am not in a position to counter the power they wield right now.

-- There does not appear to be any enemy armor on my left.

-- GaJ has two companies, one Rifle and one Weapons company on my left.

---- I believe that this is now the enemy force that is the most fragile.

I know this is going to look like I can't make up my mind, but I am going to evacuate the right in stages.. reasoning? Well with the two Pz-IVs sitting on that side and right now no way for me to mass against him without too much risk and with the fear that his company HQ team is calling for artillery on my infantry this flank no longer feels as secure as it once did.

I believe I can get angles on the force on my left and interdict it with long range tank fire.. I am bringing my infantry to defend the center and keep it trapped in the bowl it is sitting in.

If he attempts to bring his tanks to their support he will have to come over the ridges into my fields of fire... I should have some warning that he is making this move.

I am suprised that you are going to switch your battle plan so quickly just because of the loss of the one Sherman.

I am one that likes to stick with my concept of my battle plan unless I Hit a wall as to what the enemy is doing and I see it is going to cost me more than what I can take out of the enemy.

So to me, what part of the original plan of yours is not working? So you do not have the same advantage you had a moment ago. but you have gained terrain, you have some positional advantages. and if you have disadvantages, then please point them out to me.

But I will be interested in seeing if pulling back and changing the flank you are going to focus on will pay off for you. A plan should allow for flexability as to what you discover about the enemy and to take advantage of it. So if that is where you understand the enemy to be weak and that you have a way to capitalize upon it, then that is a good decision.

[Michael Emrys]

Bil, if you will pardon my curiosity, can you tell what the experience level was of the Sherman tank that got aced? BTW, this incident seems typical of what several people have been complaining about, namely that moving armor has some kind of spotting advantage in the game over motionless armor. This is exactly the opposite of what one would intuitively expect to be the case.

Michael

[sburke]

I think Bil spotted just fine (he'd commented he had it spotted for a full 30 seconds), it was the shooting aspect that seemed to go awry. Most of the shooting issues that I have been involved in have usually ended up with a valid reason why return fire wasn't an option. I can't see a good reason here but w/o access to the save it is all conjecture.