Agua Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It's $10 whole farkin' dollars. That will get you a couple filet-0-fish sandwiches, an order of fries, and a milk shake nowadays (not even sure on the milk shake). See whether V2.0 upgrade or the value meal from McD's + 1 sandwich is more satisfying. Seriously, b@#$ing about $10 for a major update including features people have been screaming for since CMBN was released is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fry30 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'm super confused, did 1979 or whatever his name is actually **** on the game? From what I've read, he has taken quite the opposite approach in other threads. Then again, its 7:44 where I am, and I didn't wait until 5:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You bought CMBN v1.0 with a set of features for $55. You had a choice to buy or not buy, but based on what features were offered you decided it was worth purchasing, so you did. Now you've had the game for about a year and a half. How much have you played the game in terms of time? How does that compare to what you pay for other games or entertainment per hour of usage? Favorable, I'm sure. Fraid not as the other two copies went to people who no longer play it either. Playing the AI might be of interest but I had huge problems in believing that the tank movement [particularly in reverse]and accuracy model were realistic which made me lose interest - other than waiting for patches. I reckon to have played certainly less than 50 hours and perhaps slightly less in testing. So on a hour per dollar rate Civ4 and Borderlands have been much more effective both in the single cents. OK, so now an Upgrade 2.0 comes out with an entirely new set of features for $10. Since you did not pay a penny for those features, why should you be entitled to them for free? Any argument you attempt to make which doesn't address this fundamental point is irrelevant. Its not a matter of entitlement but of BF essentially fragmenting the players. Upgraded it may be but with lots of features I am not interested in - what do I care about graphics and mapmaking. I just want my game to be compatible with the majority of players, and to be able to take any patches in the future. It does not hurt that cover arcs and waypoints are included but then perhaps they should have been in a patch or V1.00. Viewed from my perspective if I do not pay-up I will become part of a diminishing pool of potential opponents with no patch support. Its not so much I want the upgrade but more by its existence my CMBN and CW become less useful and less viable in the future. ................................................................................................................. Thank you for responding with your views though, and to another poster on the nature of small business and the importance of cashflow and making a living. I am investor in companies with similar cashflowcentric modes. And for those reading and just for the record I am pretty sure I have donated a minimum of at least $10 to each of the three famous scenario/mod hosting sites over the last decade so its not like I am totally tight with cash for the CM community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 "Ach, the food was awful and the portions so small!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'd just like to add that I'm happy to pay the $10 for an upgrade to what I consider to be an outstanding game, to pay for the work involved in putting it out. It's pocket change really. I played CMBO until Macs no longer supported it. Loved that game. I'm thrilled that Battlefront is supporting the Mac platform again and paying $10 for the v2.0 upgrade is a small price to support keep that effort. $10 is a bargain, for many of the reasons already listed so I won't go into all that business reasoning that Battlefront knows better than any of us anyway. Just wanted to add a non-whiney note of thanks for your inexpensive upgrade, and the helpful and prompt customer support (mostly on the forum but help tickets when necessary). Nice to see this time that the 1.11 patch and the upgrade installed with no issues at all (and I've had some that needed help before this). Keep up the good work and keep those Mac versions coming. No comments about the Mac/PC wars please - I use it because the OS is Unix and I need Unix for work/research. I have Parallels and Windows 7 running on it too, but I prefer running things on the Mac side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Can we get our chicks for free? I have nothing constructive to add, sorry, I'll get me coat. -F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Viewed from my perspective if I do not pay-up I will become part of a diminishing pool of potential opponents with no patch support. Its not so much I want the upgrade but more by its existence my CMBN and CW become less useful and less viable in the future. That is already true of CMBO, CMBB and CMAK. And really, since you don't play the game anyways why would you care about potential opponents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It's $10. That won't even get me two pints in my local nowadays. Development is expensive, and it's only getting more expensive. It's a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... If you think about the summer announcement and the sheer quantity of product this team intends to generate it is pretty staggering. We already have two separate games with at least three more (Bulge, Bagration and CMSFs) projected for the coming year (and that isn't even counting modules)... I don't recall Bulge (requiring v3.0, btw) being discussed in the summer announcement. Is this a new development? An nda whoopsie perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 And really, since you don't play the game anyways why would you care about potential opponents? Furthermore, there is nothing to stop players who ARE prepared to spend a whooping $10 from having a dual install - one at v1.11, and one at v2.0. That way they can continue to play those who haven't upgraded, as well as those who have. It is not BFC's responsibility to maintain your opponent pool. That's all on you. If your opponents are abandoning you by declining to maintain a dual install, well, maybe it says more about you than it does about BFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I want to post again here that I think the upgrade plan is spot on. Having a new family come out with better features than what I already have (especially if my family is still awaiting new expansion modules) would bum me out. Paying a paltry $10 bucks to bring my game up to the new standard (or better, as with the new v2 patch!) makes me very happy indeed (and I still much prefer BN over FI, even if it was 1.10/11, so it is hardly a lame duck in my book). Charging a big price up front and then giving free upgrades would be terrible. You'd lock out tons of new customers and even I would hesitate to buy. BTW, my main hobby is music and one of the big amp emulator companies has gone from an "everything, including the kitchen sink" big ticket package to a free intro skeleton with ala carte upgrades for around $10 to $25 each. That tells you something. Of course, Battlefront can't make the base games free. But they always do a demo (I can't even find demos for most of the games I'd like to try these days). Then the base game comes at a very reasonable price, with expansions adding joy at smaller, very reasonable prices, and now upgrades at bite-sized prices. I say, "YUM!" I still wish a standalone upgrade giving direct-play WEGO would be offered (preorder $30 to $40 and I'd buy it immediately), but I understand their reasons for not doing it. Plus, think of the whinefest that would follow the announcement of that! At this point, my only real beef is that I've got to leave my rig for three weeks and won't be around a computer that can run CM until I get back! RATS! So, I won't be able to really test out V2 fully until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Come on guys. I cannot believe people are crying, and making a big deal out of $10! That is not a lot of money by anyone standards unless you are 5 yrs old. If they were charging $35 or so I could see that as unreasonable since full games go for around $50, but $10 is reasonable considering there is probably is a lot more work involved in it than one may think. The reality is they have a business to run, and MUST make a certain profit margin to stay in business. This is a fact in EVERY business, or they do not stay in business for long. If anyone has never been in business then they may not understand that. Remember also that this is a QUALITY product that gives the player at least a year to few years of play. If they were putting out junk it would be a different story. STOP the bitching on this because it makes one sound like a cheap, entitlement, everything in the world should be free mentality, but I should be paid when I work! Well the team needs to eat too, so they can continue making quality products for all of us to enjoy. For me personally I would rather shell out pocket change of $10, than have to wait for features in a whole new game which will run $50 which is how it is in every other game I have played. Sadly some people will bitch no matter what. Even if it were free I know some would be saying, “This sucks! They left this, or that out, and I am never buying here again”. Grow up complainers, and STOP making a big deal over petty cash of $10. They work hard, care about making quality, and deserve to be paid for their labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't recall Bulge (requiring v3.0, btw) being discussed in the summer announcement. Is this a new development? An nda whoopsie perhaps? Definitely not an NDA whoopsie, simply my error and wishful thinking. My apologies for asnyone who got their hopes up off that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 So the eye Doctor released me to play CM after nearly a year of treatment and enforced (eye) rest. And the first thing I read on the forum is this dust up over a $10 upgrade. LOL...it's good to be home and see well enough to read this nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Wow...look it's another discussion regarding a game company that released something that adds to their game and a small portion of the game community are whining about being charged for it. Why is it so hard for certain people to understand that when something is added to a game it is up to the company that did it whether they want to charge for it? If they want to throw it out for free then fine, merry xmas...but nothing says you are owed new stuff for free. It's like some sort of entitlement mentality. Well like my old man used to say, stick one hand out in front of you and the other one behind you and see which one fills up with something first. You don't want to play with the new stuff then don't buy it, the old one ain't broke from what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Like many others I have no problem with the $10 for the code update (except for the part where I can't have it with the Mac store version). In fact I think the whole game series should be much more expensive. Wargames should cost $90 at least. Having said that, charging for what looks like patches is a concept that is know to have many opponents. If you gonna do it you need a thick skin. Also, while I think charging for CMBN 2.0 is justified charging for the Vista patches for CMx1 was not, in particular not in the matter how events unfolded at the time. This probably contributed to some of the audience being negative now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Maybe the Gov. should nationalize game updates since they seem to be unaffordable for an alarming number of citizens and non-citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I prefer the incremental model. I hope to see it in CMSF. No idea if that's planned, but I have had many hours of enjoyment out of that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't know about that one tbh. To me it's like buying a car to commute to work, then the bridge you were going across suddenly becomes a toll bridge and you expect Ford or whoever you bought your car from to suddenly pony up for the toll fees. Am I wrong with this analogy? edit ^in regards to the vista comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Also, while I think charging for CMBN 2.0 is justified charging for the Vista patches for CMx1 was not, in particular not in the matter how events unfolded at the time. This probably contributed to some of the audience being negative now. oh gawd, not that again. I guess it is time for everyone to pull out their axes for grinding. BF made an announcement therefore it is time to unleash the litany of things someone thinks they have done wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 oh gawd, not that again. I guess it is time for everyone to pull out their axes for grinding. BF made an announcement therefore it is time to unleash the litany of things someone thinks they have done wrong. Except for the part where you cut out that I'm fine with charging for the current patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Except for the part where you cut out that I'm fine with charging for the current patch. True enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 My work here is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Irked Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Frankly I feel that this post by BF is completely unnecessary. Profit is not a dirty word! I am confident that BF needs to make money to exist and therefore has every right to charge for its services without excuse. It is not gouging or exploitation. They provide a working product and charge for upgrades. They do not charge for identifiable deficiencies which are addressed in patches. A saying that I can identify with is "if it's free it's for me" however I also go by "Ya got's to pay to play". BF can still expect my money. If and when the product they sell does not work and no viable support is available then my money stays in my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Steve, Always good to see you on the Forum under, to some, less than rosy circumstances! I have no quibble with your patch price point, particularly since I now know I can get the patch by download and save it to a thumb drive. I'm still unclear on what manual I'd get if I ordered the hard copy, but I'd love to have to have a proper CMBN manual, so I'm seriously thinking of going that route, if that's the manual. Your Econ 101 lesson is timely, and I appreciate your sharing with us some insights on relative development costs, cycle times and other matters of considerable speculation. Looking back at CMBO, I find it incredible you and Charles were able to put out a revolutionary game that covered so much ground--practically by yourselves! I still am a long way from having any kind of handle on CMBN, but I have some feel now of how utterly different (have to keep reminding myself when I try to do things a la CMx1) CMx2 is and how vast was the work to create it. I do wish, though, there was some kind of magic toy generator (ultra fast, inexpensive object rendering and skinning) to get back some of what we had for this period in CMBO, which isn't the same as saying I expect everything we had in CMBO. Clearly, that's both insane and not happening, per your new business model. I do miss the weapon diversity of before and the operational AAA, but am well aware it's at least an order of magnitude more work, per vehicle, AFV, gun or man, than under CMx1. And there are no miracles in the programming sector. People tied up doing what I've described can't be coding MG, at least, not speedily! I'm very grateful you guys are still at it, still giving great service and pushing on to new frontiers, when so many have been rendered extinct. And your cycle times are short. The other night, I read about the designer of a fairly realistic (orbit modeling, etc.) space game. Time to get it out? 30 years. Imagine the complaints here. "Steve, you said it would be only 25 years!" Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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