Zulu Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Well, I’m getting a little antsy waiting for the final game, like I think a lot of others are. (Hmm, does Blue Cross cover CM withdrawal ?) For me, I’ve about worn out the demo. I now play it to try different strategies or in a handicap mode. I will deliberately not use units see if I can still beat the computer. I wait in great anticipation for the real deal and this is where this question comes to mind. Which for you were Quantum Leap Computer Games? I’ve been a long time computer gamer (I hate to say this, and I hope the wife never sees this but over these years more than 100 games x $60/ave = A Whole Lot of Dough.) For me the high water marks in gaming have been (my method of judgment is simply the ones that I go back too after they’ve been deleted from the HD for newer games, the ones that I keep and do not take to the used software store even though they don’t get played much, or the ones that I remember with “Oh ya, (Insert Name Here) that was a damn fine game. They would be in no particular order: -Red Baron – probably the most fun FS I ever had -Longbow – defined what a simulation was (got Longbow2 now) -Red Storm Rising – 1st real good modern submarine combat (668i Hunter/Killer is ok) -Harpoon – for me still the best modern naval simulation -Civilization – exploring, building, conquering -Silent Hunter II – finally got a WWII submarine simulation right -Close Combat – it had problems but was it ever fun, especially over the Internet -Railroad Tycoon – who thought trains could be so much fun -Sundog – I think it was only for the Atari, but a great space trading game -Seven Cities of Gold – exploring and conquering -Pirates – exploring and old time sea battles, with sword fights thrown in -FIFA 98 – 1st real good soccer simulation -NHL 98 - 1st real good hockey simulation -Kampegruppe – I forget what system but 1st real good WW2 armor game -M1TP – 1st modern tank simulation (I’ve got M1TP2 now) -Falcon 3 – 1st taste of what a modern fighter simulation should be -Computer Ambush – crude graphics, but it was squad level WW2 combat -Grand Prix 2 – 1st real good racing simulation, and F1 (I’m an F1 junkie) -Dungeon Master (Atari) – the monsters made you jump, puzzles and exploring -Doom – mindless shoot em up, and many wasted hours. J -Pacific Air War –1st real good WW2 aerial combat -Panzer General – fun beer and pretzels war game -Rainbow 6 –1st first person shooter with realism, strategy and good 3-d graphics. (I know I’ve missed a few.) Anyway, IMHO each of the above games/simulations did one thing that stands out and that is they took “it” to the next level. They either started a new genre or made a quantum leap in an existing one to define their niche. The point of this post is that I (and from what I see in here and in other forums and reviews, possibly save one forum with a big mouthed loser) feel that CM hits the above criteria. CM takes it to another level and certainly will define the way war games are produced for the next little while. Take a look at the past year or two’s releases. IAF, F-15, USAF, Falcon 4. Are they all good simulations? Yes. Do they really do anything different than Falcon 3 other than state of the art graphics, sound etc? No. Panzer Elite, a notch better than Panzer Commander, but a quantum leap? No. EAW, Screaming Deamons, Combat FS, state of the art graphics, sound etc. but that much better that PAW? No. CC3, CC4 – slightly better graphics, etc but better that much better that CC? No. Newer helicopter sims, better that Longbow except in graphics? No. Fleet Command sucks compared to Harpoon IMHO (wasn’t impressed with Harpoon2 either) Alpha Centari, Tiberian Sun,AoE, that much different than Civilization? No. Quake2, Quake3, etc, state of the art graphics, sound, but really different from Doom? No. New sports games only take advantage of faster computers and graphic cards, the games themselves are not that much better that the originals. Now on to Combat Mission. Does it make the quantum leap in this genre in my opinion? Yes, and on more than one level. -The 3-D graphics allow you to get down in the trenches to see what it was like the foot soldier or tank commander. No other war game comes close. -Up close, it makes you (at least it does to me) jump when you see the ground shake with the incoming arty rounds. You can really immerse yourself into CM. -replayability out the yingyang. Look how many times you’ve played only 3 scenarios and BTS is giving us a scenario builder plus we’re going to have a zillion scenarios at Wild Bill’s and other sites. -a truly fine AI. Sure its not perfect but it’s miles ahead of anything else that I’ve seen or played against. -a variety of ways to play the game. You can play it down low and dirty or from overhead in the God mode. I tried it with a couple of friends in a sort of hot seat mode where we divided up the Germans in Last Defence into 3 groups and hotseated it. We didn’t let each other see the orders we were giving an only tried to see what our groups were doing in the replay. We sort of faked radio communication to each other about what was happening. It was fun! -PBEM and Internet play. Those damn human opponents can be real sneaky. -war movies. What other game gives you this? What do you guys (or politically correct “people”) think? (I can’t recall any females posting here). I’m interested in seeing your quantum leap games and read on CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 SWOTL - Secret weapons of Luftwaffe. I never have seen another game with so much depth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 My quantum leap computer games: 1) Steel Panthers (it's the only game that was actually cursed by name by my ex) 2) Warlords 2 (we actually had a game going for over 2 momnths in a lab I used to work at where people would make their moves in between experiments) That's about it really. Despite the fact that I consider myself a wargamer, there isn't anything else that does it for me as consistently as Warlords 2, which I've played on all my IBM's and Mac's (except ym Mac Plus). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 <table><tr><td bgcolor=red><font color=black size="-1">do you remember?</font></td><td bgcolor=black><font color=white>I liked EMPIRE very much. We played it for days, 3 player-hotseat. Build tanks, fighters and different types of ships( you could name them) and try to conquer cities on a random map. Awful graphics but GREAT fun. It was back in computer stoneage, around 1990 I think...</font></td></tr> </table> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Posted December 30, 1999 Author Share Posted December 30, 1999 Dang, how could I forget Steel Panthers. Ya, I played Empire too. It was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunnerdream Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Avalon Hill's "Third Reich". First computer wargame I ever played. God, how my wife hated that game. (She ain't seen NOTHIN' yet) Also, Janes Fighters Anthology until the combat room filled up with stoned, hormone-revved 16 year olds(No offense meant to anyone on this board) with nasty attitudes. That just sucked all the fun out of that simulation as the computer was no competition. Can't wait for this one, although the divorce will shortly follow, I'm sure. Gunnerdream...floating down through the clouds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Lindan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I liked EMPIRE very much. We played it for days, 3 player-hotseat. Build tanks, fighters and different types of ships( you could name them) and try to conquer cities on a random map. Awful graphics but GREAT fun. It was back in computer stoneage, around 1990 I think... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1990 computer stoneage??? I guess I've been in Computer gaming when the primordial crust formed then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevi Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 For me .. Given the map/oob editor and overall interface plus the topic TANKS is my all star right now. Too bad Norm's TOAW just feels the same (just like AORs) as TANKS and even Conflict Middle East. They keep telling me the model has changed from game to game. But as a programer, I see a lot of reused code. At least in the interface. There may have been better at that time, but TANKS was on my PC and gave me countless hours of enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 A lot of great games have been mentioned here. And there is one that definately deserves to be added. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II An outstanding FPS. Great graphics, great story, great cutscenes, Star Wars music that wonderfully changes pace to match the action (or lack thereof) taking place at that moment and excellent levels that look like real locations in Star Wars. Top notch all the way. If you haven't played this game yet, go out and buy it. A must for any Star Wars or FPS fan. The best single-player FPS experience ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Lots of the games you mention there was some of my favourites but you forgot to mention one that I used to play a lot. STORM ACROSS EUROPE. Did anyone play that gem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Gotta add Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo 2 on the Playstation to that list Oh yeah Metal Gear Solid too on PSX ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ Check out my Combat Mission Beta Demo Tweaked Textures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sgt Morgue Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 No one has mentioned a really good game from the past that deserves mentioning in this CM forum, 'Under Fire' from Avalon Hill it was advanced squad leader for the computer. Being a combat veteran (Combat Infantry Badge from Vietnam war), i would like to say to BTS that CM simulates front line combat with the best realism ever , thank you for a job well done and your dedication to realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 <table> <tr><td bgcolor=red><font color=black size="-1"><div align="center" valign=center>mikedz </div></font></td> <td bgcolor=black><font color=white>I got my Atari VCS in 1982. Then things started to fall apart... . Atari 800XL, Atari ST (FALCON, ULTIMA 3,4,5). Then a PC in the early 90's. And then I stumbled across this game called "Steel Panthers". You know the rest... </font> </td></tr> </table> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Add Sid Meier's Gettyburg! (SMG) to the list as one of the truly well-balanced computer wargames. It brought to the table many new features that never seemed to make it in earlier tactical ACW games. --special defense & maneuver order options. --very good graphics for its time. --engrossing background sound which sounded like a chaotic battlefield (CM plays like this too); rebel yells, cries of fear, gunfire all overlaid & continuous. --very good treatment of morale & combat experience from unit to unit, with several factors linked to how morale was lost or recovered. --in its time, a very good (AND adjustable) AI for the smaller brigade & division level actions, but less capable in larger battles. --VERY accessible user interface for controlling units. --great multiplayer mode. When played in teams, the game gave a much better role-playing feel. SMG had its shortfalls, too, like flaky line-of-sight for some terrain, marginal role of leaders in a command/control function (used more to boost morale & rally troops rather than enhancing the maneuver of units), point scoring bugs, and questionable treatment of artillery. At least on the first two points of LOS and command/control, CM is working to fill in those gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 I will also add that The Operational Art of War (TOAW) series should also be regarded with high merit, especially after the additions made to TOAW2. In the glaring light of what other computer games can do (and even some other computer WARgames), TOAW doesn't seem quite so revolutionary. But to those who've played many of the operational-level boardgames of the 60's, 70's, and 80's, TOAW provided a tremendous stride in its capabilities. Regrettably, though, it takes work to create playable & balanced scenarios in TOAW, and the documentation from TalonSoft has been limited. The TOAW2 manual didn't even provide a tutorial like TOAW1 did. So the game's "access" is still problematic. [This message has been edited by Spook (edited 12-30-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Zulu: I agree with many of your choices, espcially Railroad Tycoon, Seven Cities and Rainbow 6, all of which gave me many months of enjoyment. However the ONE game that has really met the test of time for me is another F1 game, Grand Prix Legends. While it has a rather steep learning curve (I'm still learning it after more than a year), it is a truly ground breaking simulation. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 WARNING: I'm not restricting my list to wargames! XWing-I played that game for months nonstop (and STILL never completed it. I guess I suck!) Baldur'sGate-I DID complete that game, after 3 months of nonstop play. I triumphed in the final battle in the FIRST try, at about 3 a.m. on a Monday in March. MechCommander-I thought this game was much better than most of the official reviews declared it, and the Gold (Desperate Measures) addon made it even better. Only problem is I'm 3 missions from the end and I lost the !@#!@ disc! QQP's Battles of the SouthPacific-another game I played endlessly, mostly as the IJN, trying different strategies to conquer the ENTIRE play map. Never did, but came close a couple times. M1 Tank Platoon (I cannot BELIEVE nobody else has mentioned this!) Probably my longest-played game ever. I bought this one right after its release (1986? I was about 12 I think) for my Zenith 8086 clone (12 mhz BABY!) and was STILL playing it about every other night when, in July 1993, I bought a 386/25 from my now-brother-in-law. I put M1TP on that machine and revelled in things like joystick support, an actual HARD DRIVE (so I didn't have to swap disks every time I wanted to play) and a real, honest-to-goodness SoundBlaster 8-bit card! WOO-HOO. DjB ps: ever notice that we write "compact disC," and also "computer disK"? What's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Here's an old one that was incredibly fun and there hasn't been anything like it since...An old SSG Title "Carriers at War". I usually played as the IJN in attempting to "win" at Midway and the Battle of the Phillipine Sea (aka The Marianas Turkey Shoot). East Front was fun (with all the patches . First time I was able to see so many cool afv's since SP. Another one was Heroes of Might and Magic and for sheer fun and Bovine Mutilation - XCOM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 30, 1999 Share Posted December 30, 1999 Going to agree with most of what zulu said, but going to argue one. EAW was a giant step ahead of Aces. First time I cranked it up, I just went wow! For the first time I see MASSIVE bomber formations escorted by fighters. Different types of damage possible, not just a gauge. I STILL play EAW as I do Red Baron II [3d]. Harpoon....spent many a night on that one til the wee hours. Computer Ambush. Two player and against someone was so fun. Even against the computer was great fun. For basically no graphics, one hell of a good time. Now we get to CM. Steve and Charles have cost me more sleep then I want to think about. Beta testing, I see a lot more as you all know. Nothing is as nerve wracking as sending your only tank left, a lousy Stuart against a King Tiger, but sneaking it in from the rear. maybe it was the time a jagdtiger and some jacksons duked it out. The first time I had a flame thrower meet a open topped TD...or best of all, dealing with the scenario designers, offering suggestions, requesting other units, and actually getting listened to. [Can you tell I beta tested another series of games where that was NOT the case?]Guys, I tested scenarios from about everyone that has made one. We have some HIGHLY skilled scenario designers. Well back to work then beta testing...trust me when I say this one is one I pre-ordered many months ago, and bought two copies. Well worth every cent. Tim Orosz, Raider Combat Mission Raider Team Wild Bill's Raiders The Gamers Net: http://www.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 MechWarrior (the first one) Railroad Tycoon I spent countless hours in highschool playing these games. Missed a final because I was playing Railroad Tycoon. Some of the first games I ever bought. Wing Commander Upgraded my (still running) PS2 286/12 to one meg of RAM (actually, my mom did) just to play this game. Civilization Still on my hard drive X-Wing Ran this on my trusty 386/40. my roommates and I loved this game. Bought a CH Flightstick and a SB 16 for this game. Got to the point that I could kill hundreds of TIE Interceptors in a Y-Wing. Upgraded to a 486/120 just to play TIE Fighter. X-Com Bought this cheap in a compendium. Best atmosphere in a game. Panzer General Took my computer with me to visit my father for a summer just so I could keep playing this game. In the last four years there really hasn't been a game that has jumped out and grabbed me for an extended period of time. Some of them were fun, but not earth shattering. Steel Panthers 1 Battleground Series Close Combat 2 Entrepreneur I just got bogged down into sequel-itis. Games that were fun but nothing really new. I've upgraded my computer to keep up with the times, but not because of any game. Combat Mission has gotten me excited about computer games again. It's the first game I am excited enough about to actually read and post to the message board. And I just got a Diamond 540 32MB video card as a Christmas gift just to play CM with. And I'm seriously considering getting either a separate phone line for my modem or a cable modem (if available) just to play CM PBEM games. In addition I've already spent several hundred dollars on WWII era books and received several as Christmas gifts. Jason So addicted to CM I took my saved files with me while I'm on vacation so I can continue to play my PBEM games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Hmm..I'm trying to remember my first pc games... for like nintendo it had to be zelda and Final Fantasy 3. But for PC,umm...first game I ever bought I think was D-Day:Operation Overlord(actually my dad bought it).I bought that in `93 or `94 and I was finally able to play it like a year ago.My old 486 just couldn't cut it. Doom was a big game, many many many hours wasted on that. umm,I played Aces Of The Pacific a couple times, I loved it.I recently just bought "Aces Collection",which includes,Aces Over Europe,Aces Of The Pacific,and Red Baron.For some damn reason I can't play AOE or AOTP,but I've been playing Red Baron lately. umm...I only recently got a new computer and internet access(well my mom has had it for the last 2 years,but I was living w/ my dad at the time,til about june.so now i'm on here all the time).but CC2 is a great one.I only have the demo,but many hours just playing w/ that. I recently bought West Front,that's a great one. WW2GI Soldiers At War Sim City Sim City 2000 Command And Conquer,and red alert, that game sucks so much to me now,but then it was ok I guess. I have a short list...I wish I could play more... I wanna get some old war game,board games.stuff like that. I played Risk many hours,played Axis And Allies once..wish I had that one and Advanced Squad Leader. blah blah I accept Donations =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 I have to agree with all the games above, with one more... Anacreon, Reconstruction 4102... You want old? This space strategy game originally shipped (I believe) 1985, you want in depth and re-playability??? I don't believe that there has been an equal to Anacreon YET TO THIS DAY in terms of game balance and immersion. (MOO and Pax pale in comparison)... It was complex to learn, but once you had it down, it was a truly amazing strategy/empire management game (simply running a large empire could take 5+10 minutes a turn, then you had to deal with waging war above and beyond that... really neat... I still boot it up and play it when I get bored. Its only 1 meg, small enough to fit on a single floppy. -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiverse Posted January 1, 2000 Share Posted January 1, 2000 for the time period i think that Seal Team was great.it had intense tension in the missions.it is also one of the rarest of veitnam sims.a real pain in the butt as far as ems and conventional memory was concerned though.just a note to the developers---this could be an awesome nam conversion guys.anybody else interested in nam from these great code magicians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikeman Posted January 1, 2000 Share Posted January 1, 2000 Computer games I've absolutely played out but will never part with: Silent Hunter, Soldiers At War, Jane's WW2 Fighters, SU27 Flanker Commander's Edition. This year's gaming itinerary: Combat Mission, 101 Airborne, Armies of Armageddon, TacOps 3.0, and Horse & Musket. Mikeman out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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