The Road Ahead - Operation Bagration

[Sublime]

yes of course they are vanir, but not in one package. it's going to be modules, just like bn, just like fi, etc.

In fact, they've also stated they'll eventually do the whole ost front anyways.

[Lt Belenko]

Um, no. The entire East front will not be one game + modules. It will be at at least 3 and possibly 4 games + modules.

I'm thinking 4 games plus modules.

June 44 to May 45

June 43 to May 44

June 42 to May 43

June 41 to May 42

[Sublime]

That'd be fantastic. However I think also that while you've got the game timeframes correct they'll be released in fragments, like how we're getting CMBN. edit: And what I mean is the real question is how long between releases. If you think about it the CMx2 engine will be old by the time they're even getting to Stalingrad. I could see a heavily modified CMx2 still, it be CMx3 or 4? Whats cool is we're getting a couple at once now, and hopefully next year they'll open a third 'front' with CMSF 2 or the Ost Front. Or both. Now thats a thought.

[JonS]

I'm thinking 4 games plus modules.

June 44 to May 45

June 43 to May 44

June 42 to May 43

June 41 to May 42

I don'ty think this is quite right. I seem to recall Steve mentioning that late winter each year provides a convienient and distinct break-point for each game. The ground and weather in Feb-Mar was so bad that large scale campaigning was impractical, and both sides were generally so worn out that they couldn't do much fighting even if they'd wanted. That block of time also, coincidentally, saw the introduction of most of each year's tranche of new vehicles and TOEs.

So, my guess is that the breakdown will be something like

* BARBAROSSA: June 41- Mar 42 ("The Gates of Moscow"?)

* BLAU: Mar 42 - Mar 43 ("Death on the Volga"?)

* ZITADELLE: Mar43 - Mar 44 ("Swansong of the Panzers"?)

* BAGRATION: Mar 44 - May 45 ("The End of the Thousand Year Reich"?)

... which is basically the same as yours, except that Year 1 is a little shorter, and Year 4 is a lot longer.

I have no idea what order they'll be released in

[JonS]

... the CMx2 engine will be old by the time they're even getting to Stalingrad.

True, but don't forget they've written themselves the freedom to progressively upgrade all previous titles to the current standard, which will keep even the oldest games in the series relatively fresh.

[76mm]

I don'ty think this is quite right. I seem to recall Steve mentioning that late winter each year provides a convienient and distinct break-point for each game.

Incorrect; see link below. I've also pasted the text of Steve's response; I see that he does mention Barbarossa, so that's good news.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104854&page=22

*********************

Correct. It makes sense to break up the Eastern Front based on the summer offensives and carry it through to the Spring. The primary reason is USUALLY the Spring was when forces did their reorganizations and equipment updates. Having a game that captures the whole period, but doesn't straddle another period, makes sense from both a production and a marketing standpoint.

On the Eastern Front a lot of hardware was moved in and out throughout any given period of time. The new Pack strategy allows us to better cover this by giving you guys more stuff to play with quicker than we could with a full Module.

The families are (in order of production):

Bagration (Summer 1944 - Spring 1945)

Kursk (Summer 1943 - Spring 1944)

Case Blue (Summer 1942 - Spring 1943)

Barbarossa (Summer 1941 - Spring 1942)

************************

[JonS]

Ah, there you go then

[76mm]

Steve also seems to be saying that more will be done with "packs" instead of "modules" so that's good news too (I guess).

[Vanir Ausf B]

It will be good for QB players, at least.

[womble]

It will be good for QB players, at least.

And scenario designers.

[Michael Emrys]

If you think about it the CMx2 engine will be old by the time they're even getting to Stalingrad.

A few months ago Steve said something that suggested that the v3 engine was on the horizon. I don't take that to mean that it is "just around the corner" or at all close. But it does raise the possibility that if it isn't released in time for Bagration, it might not be long afterward. Considering that such refinements as spreading fire will be dependent on v3, and given how strongly people here have argued for its inclusion in the East Front, that has a certain logic to it.

Michael

[LUCASWILLEN05]

What I would really like is a "Kursk" module covering sy the period November 1942 to May 1944 so you can cover engagements anywhere on the Russian front ranging fro actions during Operation Mars, the encirclement of Stalingrad.German relief attempts, 3rd Kharkov,Kursk itself, 4th Kharkov, the retreat to the Dnieper and the winter battles associated with the defence of that position and the spring 1944 Russian invasion of Roumania. Obviusly this would cover a longer period than the 3 months or so normally allowed for but the variety of terrain and armies would allow for many and variable scenario possibilities.

Given the more open terrain of Russia it would be really good if we can have options for game maps considerably larger than the 4km x 4 km maps. Two or three times that size would be great for battalion level tank battles - and larger maps in CMSF2 would be a smart move since that is going to be set in the same part of the world

[76mm]

What I would really like is a "Kursk" module covering sy the period November 1942 to May 1944 so you can cover engagements anywhere on the Russian front ranging fro actions during Operation Mars, the encirclement of Stalingrad.German relief attempts, 3rd Kharkov,Kursk itself, 4th Kharkov, the retreat to the Dnieper and the winter battles associated with the defence of that position and the spring 1944 Russian invasion of Roumania. Obviusly this would cover a longer period than the 3 months or so normally allowed for but the variety of terrain and armies would allow for many and variable scenario possibilities.

Good news and bad news! The good news is that according to Battlefront's announced plans, you'll probably eventually get all of that! The bad news is that its not going to to in one game, or at the same time, or in chronological order!

My biggest concern is that so far, I'm just not having that much fun with CMx2; not sure yet if it is the theaters so far or the engine, but am hoping that the Russian Front with a tweaked engine will do the trick...

[JRMC1879]

Good news and bad news! The good news is that according to Battlefront's announced plans, you'll probably eventually get all of that! The bad news is that its not going to to in one game, or at the same time, or in chronological order!

..

Well - what they should do is announce a special $1000 dollar preorder bundle. then they can hire a few more programmers and get it all done much quicker. there isnt another game I would say it for but I would cough for that so I dont die before I see it all.

[Sublime]

Its actually funny, a lot of people would scream. you'd get 'bull$hit system' posts, people crying saying that by paying to upgrade they're paying for patches.

However its not bad idea, because if BFC figured out a schematic and said if x people trust us with 250 apiece or something, We can produce the games this much quicker etc (and of course the preorder people would get the games) Im sure they'd get their target amount of money. I dont think theres another game company that would be able to pull that off.

[Erwin]

Not sure about a $1000, but I'd be happy to pay several hundred $ to get a final version game with all families eg: all of East Front. Currently, there's a danger that we'll get bored with each incrementally improved module/family, so the next one just seems like more of the same and not nearly enough novelty to re-excite interest.

And trying to mod several different games is a nuisance compared to CM1 when you used a preferred mod once and that was it... after that you could focus on playing.

[LukeFF]

And trying to mod several different games is a nuisance compared to CM1 when you used a preferred mod once and that was it... after that you could focus on playing.

Or one could just not worry about mods and actually play the game.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I would prefer to still have the current purchasing option available but, if BF were to bring in an additional purchase option overr and above that this would be finewith me!

Looking forward to seeing Bagration (a BF return to ze Russian Front is long overdue) and CMSF 2 (ultra modern tank battles between NATO and Russia in an Eastern European setting are very appealing as hypothetical scenariosInteresting possibilities for Red versus Red and Blue versus blue)

[Erwin]

I understand what you're saying Luke. But, the mods really do improve the game experience (for me at least) so much.

[Michael Emrys]

Or one could just not worry about mods and actually play the game.

As, for instance, I do. Not putting down mods at all. Many of them are genuine works of art and I am glad to see interest in them. But it's all I can do to find enough time to play through a battle in a week or less. If I were spending much time chasing down the latest mods and installing them, gameplay would slow to a crawl.

Michael

[Erwin]

You are absolutely correct about that, Michael. But, when one has been a mod slut since CM1 in 1999 it's very hard to break the habit.

[kohlenklau]

Uh oh!

----the word correct in a reply to Michael Emrys!

[John Kettler]

One of my favorite AFVs is the SU-100, a military love affair that goes back to high school and my Tamiya 1:35 scale motorized one, which, in things coming full circle (see vid), was also Russian green and running around on the snow. I don't know who this guy is, but what a great gig! The closest I've ever come to doing that is playing TC on an M48A5 for a missile seeker test on one occasion and simulated TOW inclement weather engagement on another. Tanks in cold rain with leaky hatches (had to extend radio antenna for a handheld unit from cracked open hatch to talk to my controllers; rain ran down my collar in considerable quantity) and no heaters aren't fun. This guy, though, is having a ball on a crisp, clear winter day. Not the greatest weather for this thread, but I bet no one complains about the SU-100.

This vid has lots of wonderful footage I've never seen of SU-100s doing all sorts of things, including street fighting. There are extended sequences of a running example being talked about in the SU-100's stalking environment (scary how easily this thing can hide) and, happily for us, the weather is Op Bagration appropriate and so, I think, are the terrain and foliage. Tank descents on the SU-100s are clearly in evidence, and not just rolling across the steppes. As a bonus, lots of other Russian hardware (ZIS-3s in action but one such) is seen, as well as German footage from what I think is the battle for Budapest. Eat your heart out, History Channel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LeNHrzf-Qs

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Michael Emrys,

Look on the bright side. There's nary a camouflage job on the Russian side, greatly simplifying modding, but I do look forward to GreenAsJade's swamp mod and Ari's BA-64. Will we get the armored combat engineers seen in late war Russian battle footage?

(shudders)

Why do I shudder? I still have PTSD from a disastrous attempt to radically redo a 1:35 Tamiya GAZ 66 into a BA-64. Projective geometry, scale plans and one attempt after another to try to get the cursedly multifaceted thing together led to such total frustration I threw the thing back in the box and, I believe, gave it to a friend who had the 3D skills I so clearly lacked, though I don't know if he ever completed it, either.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Der Alte Fritz]

My biggest concern is that so far, I'm just not having that much fun with CMx2; not sure yet if it is the theaters so far or the engine, but am hoping that the Russian Front with a tweaked engine will do the trick...

What's the problem, is it lack of engagement with the subject matter or an actual problem with the game mechanics?