Computer upgrade - does CMBB work with 64 bit Vista?

[Der Alte Fritz]

Hi

Am planning an upgrade of the PC and need to know if 64 bit systems work with CMBB.

Does anyone know?

[Blazing 88's]

Win 7 64 bit works so...

With Vista you may have issues with PBEM games, I think finding the PBEM file was a pain or something not sure??

I went from WinXP to Win 7, I didn't like what I had heard about Vista so I stuck it out with XP until a couple of years ago.

[Schrullenhaft]

Windows Vista and newer Windows OSes will often silently move files into a 'VirtualStore' directory if you install the game into the default '\Program Files (x86)' directory (for 64-bit versions of Windows). This is true of 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows. This behavior is part of a security feature called UAC (User Account Control), which prevents writes of data to the 'program directories', ostensibly to prevent corruption/infection of the files and other issues.

The 'VirtualStore' directory is hidden, so it makes it a bit more work to get it visible and moving PBEM files requires extra steps. You can launch the game by right-clicking and selecting "Run as administrator" to allow the game to write to the '\Program Files (x86)' directory, which will make finding your PBEM files a little easier.

If you're running an AMD/ATI Radeon video card, then you may want to consider purchasing the 1.04 patch (if you don't already have it), since it incidentally fixes a graphical bug seen with those video cards and drivers for awhile. The intended purpose of the 1.04 patch, to fix a DirectX 10 hardware/driver issue, has generally been addressed by the video chip manufacturers and generally isn't absolutely necessary. However I would recommend it if you don't have it (all games between 1.04 and 1.03 will work - so all opponents wouldn't need 1.04 in order to play each other).

CMBB is still a 32-bit application. So, in and of itself, it will not see a direct benefit to running under a 64-bit OS in regards to seeing more memory or operating any faster.

[Der Alte Fritz]

No my objective is to upgrade to a new PC (which has to happen anyway) and one good enough to play CMX2 Eastern Front (when it arrives) but not lose CMBB in the process since it is the breadth of coverage that I like and CMx2 is never going to move out of 1943-4.

Also I want to run those huge maps that George Mc produces for both games and so need some serious number crunching power .

Since I run multiple copies of the game for different 'mods' I have tended not to put them into the Program File since it is easier to find them in their own directory.

[Blazing 88's]

My specs for my Cyberpower Workstation I picked up about a year ago;

Processor: AMD FX-8150 Eight-Core Processor 3.6 GHz

RAM: 16.0 GB

System Type: Win 7 64-Bit OS

Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti, 1 GB

All CMx1 and CMx2 work for me on this rig.

Obviously with a HD monitor (16:10 aspect ratio in my case) and CMx1 you want to turn the aspect ratio to 4:3 to prevent distortion of the graphics within CMx1 games.

Otherwise all good.

[Marc Anton]

No problems here with Core i5 @ 4.5 GHz and GTX 460 - win 7 64 bit.

Best thing is that there is enough power to run the biggest maps with 4x4 fsaa super sampling.

[Redwolf]

Why would you waste time on Vista if Win7 is available?

[Blazing 88's]

No problems here with Core i5 @ 4.5 GHz and GTX 460 - win 7 64 bit.

Best thing is that there is enough power to run the biggest maps with 4x4 fsaa super sampling.

You using stock cooler's with that overclocking? I would assume not, Corsair? Supposedly I can get my AMD (FX chip) 3.6 GHz up to 5.0 GHz talking with my tech peeps.

Not sure I want to try as I like where I am at for now.

[Marc Anton]

Using a thermaltake cooler (air) and g.skill memory, but its just ordenary stuff.

[Streety]

Why would you waste time on Vista if Win7 is available?

Well old boy, not everyone can afford to buy a brand-new "new" computer. I'm dreading the day my cheap but fabulous 7yr-old E-machines XP rig bites the dust. Heavily used and beginning to get temperamental - and my computer is the same - yet the affordable reconditioned/refurbished machines are mainly Vista.

However, you can still (just about) get a new XP (at a price - eg. a few Vista Business rigs still unsold that include an XP option, or you can order a custom-rig), or get a refurbished XP. So I'd turn the question around and say why would a CM1 player look for Win7 (or 8) if they can get XP? Are you all a scaredy of the fog?

[Redwolf]

Well old boy, not everyone can afford to buy a brand-new "new" computer. I'm dreading the day my cheap but fabulous 7yr-old E-machines XP rig bites the dust. Heavily used and beginning to get temperamental - and my computer is the same - yet the affordable reconditioned/refurbished machines are mainly Vista.

However, you can still (just about) get a new XP (at a price - eg. a few Vista Business rigs still unsold that include an XP option, or you can order a custom-rig), or get a refurbished XP. So I'd turn the question around and say why would a CM1 player look for Win7 (or 8) if they can get XP? Are you all a scaredy of the fog?

But win7 needs less of a computer than vista. I really don't get why you think that picking vista over win7 helps anything or anybody.

[Redwolf]

You using stock cooler's with that overclocking? I would assume not, Corsair? Supposedly I can get my AMD (FX chip) 3.6 GHz up to 5.0 GHz talking with my tech peeps.

Not sure I want to try as I like where I am at for now.

Each chip is an individual. You can't predict how far it overclocks with what grade of stability without actually doing it.

[Streety]

But win7 needs less of a computer than vista. I really don't get why you think that picking vista over win7 helps anything or anybody.

Cost - you must have missed the very first line of my post, or perhaps it wasn't clear enough. So to clarify - i.e., not everyone can afford a new computer, some can only afford a 2nd-hand one, and a 2nd-hand vista computer is going to be cheaper.

[Blazing 88's]

Using a thermaltake cooler (air) and g.skill memory, but its just ordenary stuff.

Cool thermaltake cooler is what I have as well.

[Blazing 88's]

Each chip is an individual. You can't predict how far it overclocks with what grade of stability without actually doing it.

I know that, I didn't explain myself clearly. Sorry my bad.

[Redwolf]

Cost - you must have missed the very first line of my post, or perhaps it wasn't clear enough. So to clarify - i.e., not everyone can afford a new computer, some can only afford a 2nd-hand one, and a 2nd-hand vista computer is going to be cheaper.

You are aware that you aren't stuck with the OS that comes preinstalled, right?

In fact it doesn't sound like a good idea to continue using the windows install on a computer you bought used.

[Streety]

You are aware that you aren't stuck with the OS that comes preinstalled, right?

In fact it doesn't sound like a good idea to continue using the windows install on a computer you bought used.

Yes, I'm aware - though frankly upgrading the OS can be very problematic if your rig's maker didn't make it as compatible as its supposed to be and with appropriate drivers etc (had that problem). It's not something to be done lightly. And I personally would be wary of buying any 2nd-hand machine (having done so once before, 10yrs ago, and having had to fix one my nephew bought last year). But again, whether in terms of upgrading to a better "newer" machine or just upgrading the OS, not everyone can afford the latest stuff and in those instances Vista would likely be cheaper. Hence the answer to your question of why would someone bother upgrading to a Vista environment after Win7 came out.

So now, do you understand? Cos I'm getting bored and am done here.

[Streety]

Sorry about tenor of last message, just getting overheated. And to add another factor I forgot to mention specifically before - which is that not all computers can be upgraded to beyond Vista. Ok, now I'm going quietly away.

[Redwolf]

Sorry about tenor of last message, just getting overheated. And to add another factor I forgot to mention specifically before - which is that not all computers can be upgraded to beyond Vista. Ok, now I'm going quietly away.

But it's not true. win7 uses less memory and the drivers for vista and win7 are identical.

installing vista and then fighting it is wasting the time that people should use to learn useful skills

[Streety]

That may well be, but only if you are literate enough to do it. I am, but would be too wary because I've previously found that some rigs built for one OS don't always fully take to a newer OS, regardless of what the paperwork says (there was always some ancilliary functionality or compatibility issue somewhere or lack of specific enough forum experience/support for helping me work through remnant issues on a particular old machine for which too few others bothered to just upgrade the OS). And so I wouldn't bother doing just a software OS upgrade again but would wait until upgrading to a newer machine with whatever newer OS that came with (which, for me and some other poor people, is likely to be a second-hand Vista rather than a newer Win7). And some may have the money but already be familiar with Vista from other use (say at work, or on another machine) and not want to learn yet another OS. Not everyone is a techie and not everyone wants to become one, and not everyone can afford the latest stuff or want to learn yet another system. Hence the answer as to why some people might be looking at moving up to Vista rather than Win7.

[Redwolf]

Sorry but if somebody is "not literate enough to do it" then the target to install should be a sane OS so that the person learns something that lasts for a while, not to mention less problems are likely than when choosing Vista. I don't see how installing Vista can possibly a good thing for those without computer skills.

And that doesn't even begin to evaluate the question of computer security.

[Streety]

Well I take it by avoiding my points that you accept them. Thanks for being evasive enough not to say so. And even as to your point that people should become more computer literate, you avoid my point and the fact that not everyone wants to become more literate or has the ability to do so.

And as to your previously telling me that I was wrong by saying that not all computers can be upgraded to beyond Vista, I was going to let that one slide, but will now respond to point out that the minimum requirements for Win7, according to Microscoft, states 1GB of RAM and a 1GHz processor:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows7/products/system-requirements

Whilst this is the same for Vista-Premium etc, the minimum for Vista-Basic is lower at 500MB RAM and 800Mhz processor:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919183

And there are also other hardware-support issues, such as both Win7 and Vista-Premium needing pixel shader 2, and even then, some pixel shader 2 integrated graphics cards (such as the Intel GMA900) won't support Windows display driver model architecture (another requirement for Win7). However, Windows Vista-Basic doesn't need these.

So you may have an older machine that (even if you have the know-how) you physically can't upgrade all the components (either due to lack of accessories or lack of realistic exspansionability) needed for Win7, but for which you could still upgrade to Vista Basic.

OK, now I really am done and need to move on, because you just keep either avoiding many of my points or are being willfully selective and incorrect about others.

[Redwolf]

Vista requires more memory than win7 in practice, and is more CPU intensive. You really need to stop buying into those silly "minimum hardware requirements". Neither of them will do a good job on 512 MB and a different OS should be chosen.

I don't use that "sort of" graphics chips but the way I followed it the driver architecture between Vista and win7 is identical. Certainly a quick look at the NVidia drivers indicates that they are the same download for both. Can you link to a specific driver that you think is available only for Vista but not win7?

I think you are just looking for excuses to use what is the worst of all windows versions since win98, and windows isn't that great an OS to start from. The resources going down the drain there cannot easily be recovered.

[Streety]

Groan. If you don't use that "sort of" graphics chip then you won't be aware that you are wrong to say that if you can upgrade to Vista you can more easily upgrade to Win7. As to specific drivers - that's the whole problem - there aren't always the specific drivers in existence to upgrade some earlier integrated graphics cards and not all earlier integrated graphics cards are capable anyway. For example, if you otherwise have sufficient minimum specs to upgrade to Win7 but have the intel gma900 chip, you'll find after installing the upgrade that you can't alter the brightness and some other basic graphics settings, which is a pretty basic need (nor can you run Aero but that isn't a necessity). Intel could have released a driver update for the GMA900 but never did, and even if they one day do, the same problem (and worse) occurs with some other older cheap integrated graphics. And other problems can occur with some other utility and ancillary hardware-management issues, depending on whether the machine's maker (if they're still in business) bothered to continue to support the machine and provide the drivers. In my experience, its only worth even thinking about upgrading your OS if you've a relatively new machine that came out within say a couple of years of the newer OS coming out. And even then, if you've a cheap machine you'd better check out all the less-obvious-but-important issues and driver availabilities or end up regretting it.

Who mentioned Windows98 and who said I prefer to use Vista?? Personaly I stick to XP when at home (though I've much 1970s-onwards experience as a data-manager from early Mac and pre-windows DOS days, and then Win3 up to 7, and I've a Linux netbook at home, and even a ZX Spectrum+). If you're a PC gamer it's easier to stick to Windows, and if you check out benchmarks you'll find that XP is hard to beat for gaming (certainly better than Vista). And though win7 now more-or-less matches XP in gaming, XP gives you full functionality for CM1 games (i.e. good fog rendering) which you usually can't display properly with Vista or win7 machines.

But thanks for not manning-up and not thanking me for explaining and putting you straight on these and all the other previous reasons I gave you in answering your original question. However, whilst I might regret ever answering you, I still felt it important to write for the benefit of other Forum readers to be aware and at least look into these issues before they consider upgrading.

[Erwin]

Slightly OT, but what do you think of Win 8? Worth getting, and if so, when?