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France defeated by Italy without taking Paris!


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I find very strange that Italy can defeat France without taking Paris. It is 21 July 1940 and the allies have a French HQ (Gamelin) in Paris strength 10 partially surrounded by two French armies, a French corps and a Polish corps, the BEF army and the 1st FAF fighters. Italy has taken Marseilles the previous month. French morale has dropped to 0 after being at 24% the previous turn. I then give the AI its turn and the French do not loose any more forces and the French HQ holds firm in Paris. Suddenly the message flashes up "Vichy French Government Installed". It doesn't seem right that the French can hold out so long and then suddenly surrender especially after destroying (with the help of the Brits) 3 German tank groups, 2 armies and a corps. I would have thought they would have been pretty proud! Just had to vent!

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France's morale is brittle, and can be broken by defeats outside Paris, despite military successes such as you've achieved, coupled with the loss of resources like Marseilles.

This is to match real life where their fighting spirit was broken and Paris declared an open city so that the Germans could waltz in and take it without a fight.

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Thanks for the explanation guys, I guess I have to keep my French corps in Marseilles to keep the Italians out in future.

Funny thing happened next though. I moved my isolated BEF army into the still unoccupied Paris. Gave the AI its turn and the following messages came up in turn: "Allies liberate France", "Vichy France Overthrown by Free French", "Vichy France joins Allies","Free French Govt in Exile Formed in London".

Why would the Free French Govt form in London when they have overthrown Vichy France? Why does France still remain split? Why do the ports/cities of Bordeaux and Brest/Nantes remain under axis control even though the Allies have Liberated France and the nearest Axis forces are north of Paris?

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Thanks for the explanation guys, I guess I have to keep my French corps in Marseilles to keep the Italians out in future.

Funny thing happened next though. I moved my isolated BEF army into the still unoccupied Paris. Gave the AI its turn and the following messages came up in turn: "Allies liberate France", "Vichy France Overthrown by Free French", "Vichy France joins Allies","Free French Govt in Exile Formed in London".

Why would the Free French Govt form in London when they have overthrown Vichy France? Why does France still remain split? Why do the ports/cities of Bordeaux and Brest/Nantes remain under axis control even though the Allies have Liberated France and the nearest Axis forces are north of Paris?

Hi

What happens when France is ready to surrender is that the Axis get to choose whether or not to form Vichy France, and as a result, various Vichy regimes have been set up in southern France and in the French colonies.

The liberation of a country works by having a friendly unit enter the capital of a conquered country, hence the British unit achieved a liberation.

Liberations only liberate the territory occupied by friendly forces, so that in this instance, the Germans will continue to hold parts of France until Allied forces can arrive to drive them from it, just as in real life after Paris's liberation in August 1944.

Admittedly, what you've seen is an unusual situation with an outcome that undoubtedly caused some surprise, but I hope this explains what you've seen and why it happened.

Bill

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Maybe to the Messages could be simply a Minimum Date around 1.1.1942 and then this would be fixed?:confused:

It's possible, though we would need to consider what would the French colonies be doing if there really is a stiff fight going on between Allied and German forces around Paris, and Paris is liberated and remains so for a while.

Do the French colonies remain neutral, or rejoin the fight?

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Thanks for your explanations.

I would have thought if the Free French can overthrow the government of Vichy France it would be capable of overthrowing the collaborators in Bordeaux, Nantes/Brest and allow easier supply to my army in Paris.

I have now abandoned the game and restarted with the new knowledge of French morale.

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