WW2 Op Orders / Scenario Design sub folder questions

[Badger73]

Please let me apologize if this has been already asked and answered.

Two questions:

1) Are there any websites / URLs where actual or credible WW2 unit Op Orders for historical battles can be found?

2) Has consideration been given to creating a "Combat Mission BfN / FI" forum sub-folder for scenario design threads and discussion?

I'm a CM newbie who wants to learn.

Elaboration #1:

I have noticed threads from scenario designers who ask for help putting together the mission briefings and tactical displays for their scenarios. I have also noticed some repository scenario's with minimal or rudimentary situation briefings. It seems to me on one hand that after all the heavy lifting of map design and unit balancing, briefings get short shrift. On the other hand, after immersing themselves so heavily in a scenario's design, what is often obvious and clear to the designer himself doesn't communicate to the player. I think that referencing actual five paragraph like Operations Orders or using historical Op Order formats as much as possible would help designers polish finished scenarios and further enhance the finalized battles they produce and post to the repositories.

Elaboration #2:

There are several excellent recent threads between the CM BfN and FI forums referencing map sources and historical archives for v2 scenario designing. These threads will likely get deeply buried in their discussion boards over time. Savvy people will know how to use the search engine to find them. Uninitiated tyro's like me will not. A dedicated forum for such threads could prove truly useful.

Commendation:

I am a veteran gamer who is new to CMx2 and is extremely impressed with the diligence and standards for excellence displayed in many of the scenario's and mods posted to the repository. These are long labors of obvious love given freely to the rest of us. Too often in our commercial world "free" products equate to objects of little value. That's clearly not true of the objects in the repository! Whatever can be done to help designers clear the final hurdle of composing complete battle briefings and notes before final publication will only enhance the value of these battles for Combat Mission games. Such in turn will definitely increase the value of the commercial Combat Mission games themselves. Thank you to everyone for providing me a wholly satisfying WW2 tactical gaming experience! Please keep 'em coming!

Good luck and good gaming!

[JonS]

1) Are there any websites / URLs where actual or credible WW2 unit Op Orders for historical battles can be found?

I don't know about websites, but George Forty's Handbook of the US Army and Handbook of the British Army both contain their respective nation's orders format in an appendix.

2) Has consideration been given to creating a "Combat Mission BfN / FI" forum sub-folder for scenario design threads and discussion?

Isn't there is one already?

I'm a CM newbie who wants to learn.

Yay!

It seems to me on one hand that after all the heavy lifting of map design and unit balancing, briefings get short shrift. On the other hand, after immersing themselves so heavily in a scenario's design, what is often obvious and clear to the designer himself doesn't communicate to the player.

I agree, and I agree with your reasoning too.

I think that referencing actual five paragraph like Operations Orders or using historical Op Order formats as much as possible would help designers polish finished scenarios and further enhance the finalized battles they produce and post to the repositories.

Yes, although CM has a semi-fixed briefing format. From memory the format contains the following headings:

* Situation

* Mission

* Friendly Forces

* Enemy Forces

* Plan

* Notes

That's a reasonable approximation of the 5-para format. A lot of players don't have military experience, so sticking religiously to it probably wouldn't help much, and also each military has it's own flavour of the 5-para format, so forcing everyone to use, say, the modern US version wouldn't make any sense.

What I have noticed, though, is that the same information often gets repeated in the various section headings.

Although I don't believe it has ever been formalised anywhere (and I don't think it should be formalised anyway) IMO (FWIW, and other TLAs)

* Situation

This should tell the back story. How did you get to be fighting this battle, here, now. In a general sense it should explain what's going on at a higher level and to the flanks.

* Mission

A single sentence using the [WHO] is to [do WHAT] [WHERE] by [WHEN] in order to [WHY] format. "[b Company] is to [secure] [the crossroads] no later than [1400 hrs] in order for [the remainder of 1 Bn to advance on Aachen]." This mission should be clear, correct (i.e., don't tell the players to secure a hill when actually taking a church on the other side of the map is more important in terms of points), and achievable.

* Friendly Forces

Explain what the player has, including fire support and reinforcements, and identify any key strengths or weaknesses (i.e., poor morale, low ammo). Can also set the scen starting off by talking about what the player's 'two-up' is doing in general, and what their 'one-up' is doing in detail.

* Enemy Forces

Exactly the same as for friendly forces. Explain what the enemy has, including fire support and reinforcements, and identify any key strengths or weaknesses (i.e., poor morale, low ammo). Can also set the scen starting off by talking about what the enemy's 'two-up is doing in general, and what their 'one-up' is doing in detail. Should give an indication of what the enemy is trying to achieve. Obviously some FOW should be applied, so the information should be more general than for the Friendly Forces, but be really careful about telling outright lies. IMO, some amount omission or slight under- or over-exaggeration, or offset emphasis, is ok, but telling lies so any plan the player comes up with during setup is nullified once contact has begun is a sure way of ensuring no one will play your scenarios.

* Plan

IMO, this is the least important section. If the above para's a sound, the player should be able to come up with a sound plan on their own. And, in fact, coming up with a sound plan is, I think, a big part of the game. So 'stealing' that from the players by putting it in here is poor practice, I think. On the other hand, you can give a broad-brush general outline of how you - as designer - think the battle will play out, so something like "1 platoon will defend The Copse until reinforcements arrive and can advance to secure The Bridge" is ok.

* Notes

Um ... other stuff? I use it to list the objectives and their points values, and note any sources if I used them. You can also dump parameter data in here (date, time, weather, wind, map size, friendly map edges, scenario length, etc) which can be a handy reference for the players, although I tend to put most of that in the Designers Notes because it's the same for both sides.

Good thread, and good questions/suggestions

Jon

[Franko]

Great reply., JonS. Very helpful.

[Badger73]

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QUESTION - Has consideration been given to creating a "Combat Mission BfN / FI" forum sub-folder for scenario design threads and discussion?

Isn't there is one already?

<snipped>

Good thread, and good questions/suggestions

Jon

@JonS - you're right. In fact there are two (one each BfN and FI). Most of those discussions are about possible scenarios to design or reactions to finished ones within their particular CMx2 game. I would reiterate that these contain several excellent recent threads between the CM BfN and FI forums referencing map sources and historical archives for v2 scenario design. Seems to me that these threads will likely get deeply buried in their discussion boards over time, especially as more CM modules get released. My thinking is that a separate forum dedicated to the CMx2 design engines for all CMx2 scenario design threads could prove truly useful. The same techniques for creating the maps, force balance, and briefings in a Normandy scenario will also apply towards Italy, as well as to Africa (I hope), and East Front (when it comes).

As @Franko said, your own reply is very helpful. It should be stickied in the stand alone CMx2 Scenario Designers folder. Just struck me that with the release of FI, CM scenario design skills will now spread across multiple game modules and might be better served as a single collection in a dedicated place. I guess we'll see what develops . . .

[JonS]

Seems to me that these threads will likely get deeply buried in their discussion boards over time

Yeah, but that's really just a "feature" of their sequential nature, especially on busy forums. Splitting off sub-forums, and sub-sub-forums and sub-sub-sub-forums just means that particular threads get deeply buried in a different way ... and that's assuming that the thread is in the right sub-sub-sub-sub-forum to begin with!

I think the most useful thing that posters can do is to try and ensure their post contains some key words so that the search function, as handicapped as it is, has the best chance of re-finding the post in the future.

As @Franko said, your own reply is very helpful. It should be ...

Why, that you As it happens, I'm working on something in that vein in the background