Italian guns need

[stciaram]

in game we have only 47mm and 65mm gun, and off map howitzer and gun but often the Regio Esercito, used in AT role and direct fire other different guns (see the htpp address)

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=1019

i think that's it's very important for a realistic wargame an i hope see those in the next modules and/or patches

[Childress]

Maybe we'll get them in the next module. Speaking of Italian arms BF might consider revisiting some of the Italian tankette models. Apart from the Renault they seem very low poly.

[joeroma]

the fact is that very often there were no ways do deal with enemy tanks and as a result it often happened that the campaign batteries were used in action against tank. the 75/27 was not a very effective anti-tank weapon and we relied almost exclusively the useless cannone da 47(inutile contro i carri americani)

[stciaram]

Maybe we'll get them in the next module. Speaking of Italian arms BF might consider revisiting some of the Italian tankette models. Apart from the Renault they seem very low poly.

But this is correct the italian tankette were weak, but the artillery in at role was used by Regio esercito in all fronts using the old wwI guns...

[gunnergoz]

Not clear from what I've read that any Italian divisional artillery battalions were ever engaged in direct fire in Sicily. Most of those level units either were used in their intended indirect fire roles or were abandoned when the front lines were breached. Not much in the way of training for that contingency that I know of. Regimental guns were a different matter.

[Childress]

But this is correct the italian tankette were weak, but the artillery in at role was used by Regio esercito in all fronts using the old wwI guns...

I meant they look funky (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=funky) in a graphical way. Like, as some allege, the rendition of the King Tiger in CMBN

[Erwin]

I am no historian, but I had the impression that the Italians relied on arty heavily like did the Brits to compensate for the mostly (not all) poor-ish infantry.

Actually, it wasn't necessarily the fault of the Italian fighting man, but the awful officers who (I have read) would often flee on transport leaving their men behind. That would tend to mitigate good morale I would think.

[stciaram]

But i would note that that the coastal division and fortified place had old guns or captured artillery... especially 75mm (with different caliber), 77mm and 100mm... another gap in the game the absence of 20mm that in italian army was very popular, used like heavy MG and AA role http://centoventesimo.com/curiosita/artiglieria/20_65_mod_35.htm

[John Kettler]

stcriam,

Welcome aboard!

I think what you really need for AT work are these, the Canone da 75/46 and Canone da 90/53

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79669713/4/Heavy-Anti-Aircraft-Guns

Regards,

John Kettler

[stciaram]

No john, the 75/46 and 90/53 were both AA guns very few used for AT role for a lack of AT shell... But 75/18 and 100/22 with Heat shell or the other captured ex french, or austro-hungarian guns... Regards

[John Kettler]

stciaram,

I was trying to find you an effective antitank weapon, and these meet the need, especially the second one. The Germans apparently thought so, too, as noted in the description at the link. I have no doubt the items you mention would help, but neither is set up, for example, to engage crossing targets. What they can do, though, is deal with something coming straight at them.

Note what's said here about the Canone da 90/53 (Fair Use)

http://comandosupremo.com/cannone9053.html

"The Italians used the 90/53 as a multi-purpose weapon on occasion, but some were emplaced as dual-purpose anti- aircraft/coast defense weapons. At times they were used as long-range field guns and the performance of the gun was such that it could match the 88 as an anti-armor weapon. Numbers of the gun were also diverted to the Italian Navy. The Germans valued the 90/53 so highly that following the Italian surrender in July 1943, they impressed as many of the 90/53s as they could find and sent many of them back to Germany for defense of the Reich as the 9-cm Flak 41(i), although the official designation was the 9-cm Flak 309/l(i). By December 1944, 315 such guns are mentioned in German records, though many were emplaced in Northern Italy. The Allies too captured many 90/53s in their march north and used them for the coast defense role with British coastal batteries around the main Italian captured ports."

Here's something I'm certain of--coastal batteries have APHE shell for destroying naval targets; regular HE won't cut it, not on armored warships. At the very worst, they'd have common or semi armor piercing (SAP) ammunition.

Italian projectile types

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2124&d=1213366475

Going left to right, in English parlance, AP shell, SAP shell/common, HEAT, Improved HEAT.

This is taken from this outstanding thread. You'll love it. Full of not only wonderful information but great projectile drawings and a pic of effects from an EP hit on a T-34 turret.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?4443-Italian-Artillery-and-Anti-Tank-Weapons

This shows that the Canone da 90/53 was used in North Africa, along with Italian crewed 88s. Believe you'll find it of considerable interest.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?63822-THE-ITALIAN-88mm-amp-90mm-AT-AA-GUNS-IN-NORTH-AFRICA

Italian ammunition, unfortunately NOT including the 90mm.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/96063990/Handbook-of-Enemy-Ammunition-Pamphlet-7-1943

Regards,

John Kettler

[stciaram]

Thank you john, i red your interesting links ... I knew the good quality of 90mm and also the use with 88mm in north Africa.. But in sicily was a different history... Remember only in may 43 ended the tunisian campaign where the regio esercito lose the best of airplane , guns, men and armor ... Only two months after there is the operation husky, and more of axis troops were the rest of african army late to ship for Africa used like garrison... The italian HQ thought have time to prepare a defense waiting new arms from national industries... So only old guns a part of the 88 and 90 of regia marina in the ports and in fixed AA role ... The only Intended AT role 90 mm was on the semovente and on breda truck like correctly in game

[cool breeze]

where are these 90mm on breda trucks? I want one, but cant seem to find it.

[John Kettler]

stciaram,

You're welcome!

Regards,

John Kettler

[stciaram]

where are these 90mm on breda trucks? I want one, but cant seem to find it.

No Breda truck, off course, but the semovente M41/90 can simulate it well, unarmored, poor movement and big silhouette...and few ammo

... you're welcome too john