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Chops

Ukraine > NATO vs. Russia

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In terms of the likeliest next RL war I'd vote for China vs India.

Great minds think alike!

But BF would all those U.S. Shock Force models just sitting around...unemployed.

Except for the Shock Force game, of course. ;)

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It's really difficult to predict what will happen with India and China. India is so preoccupied with Pakistan and China has this whole Taiwan envy thing going on. Yet the two countries are in huge competition for natural resources because they are roughly 2/3rds of the Earth's population combined. Or something close to that.

Steve

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But they have that whole Himalaya thing going on. Proxy fights in Africa, maybe, but I doubt toe-to-toe across their border (and yes, I know they've had a couple of skirmishes up there. Skirmish != war).

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see the Philippines and China going at it hammer and tongs over the South China Sea. Sansha was a neat trick, but it's not going to win China any friends.

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I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see the Philippines and China going at it hammer and tongs over the South China Sea.

With Vietnam as an interested third party. I've thinking along those lines too, along with some people who have a lot more clout than both of us put together. I also note that China is being very industrious in creating and expanding their blue water navy. I wonder what will happen when/if they decide they are in a position to stalemate the USN in the region. Will they try to apply some serious diplomatic/military muscle re the Spratlys?

Michael

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They may not wait that long. The US has formal defense treaties with Japan and the Philippines but not with Vietnam or Taiwan (although there is an implicit one with the latter). With regards to Vietnam, China is unlikely to ever be in a more advantageous position militarily than it is now. Vietnam is rearming but is still in the early stages. They just recently took delivery of 2 new Russian-made corvettes specialized for surface warfare and are awaiting the 2 ASW ships. More importantly they have ordered 6 Improved Kilo-class submarines that will dramatically increase their anti-ship capability but the first of those will not be delivered until 2014. They also have 12 Su-30 fighters on the way.

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It’s not about what’s currently likely for me (Taiwan vs China). It’s about what would have happened if the balloon went up in the mid 1980’s in Europe. I suspect it’s that way for the majority of gamers both PC and cardboard who do any gaming post WWII.

Look at the amount of board games that were dedicated to the topic back in the day. MBT, Firefight, Next War and on and on. Look at all the books, Coyle, Brown and Clancy put out. Every Cold War veteran, kid and gamer, wants Fulda Gap 1985. That’s a fact.

The US military is a shadow of its former self as is the Russian Army. Who wants to watch two former heavy weights try to round up enough heavy mech forces to make a battle interesting in the Ukraine in two thousand whatever? Who wants to see a bunch of Brigade Combat teams scurrying about with wheeled APC’s and Hummer’s?

I bet every German, British, Canadian, and Norwegian, former East German, former West German Polish, Dutch, French, American…….. Let’s face it, NATO or PACT groupie, would wet themselves if a CMSF could be done that modeled a NATO vs PACT conflict circa 1979-1988, period! Mechanized ARMY’s at their grand peek slogging it out to see who will control Europe. Just sayin………………

Johnnie gets his IPM1 vs Ivan’s T-80B. Tolga gets his Leopard 1A1 vs Slava’s T-64A. Gunter get his Leopard II against Pavel’s T-72K, tell me this is not a winner for BF?

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It’s not about what’s currently likely for me (Taiwan vs China). It’s about what would have happened if the balloon went up in the mid 1980’s in Europe. I suspect it’s that way for the majority of gamers both PC and cardboard who do any gaming post WWII.

Look at the amount of board games that were dedicated to the topic back in the day. MBT, Firefight, Next War and on and on. Look at all the books, Coyle, Brown and Clancy put out. Every Cold War veteran, kid and gamer, wants Fulda Gap 1985. That’s a fact.

The US military is a shadow of its former self as is the Russian Army. Who wants to watch two former heavy weights try to round up enough heavy mech forces to make a battle interesting in the Ukraine in two thousand whatever? Who wants to see a bunch of Brigade Combat teams scurrying about with wheeled APC’s and Hummer’s?

I bet every German, British, Canadian, and Norwegian, former East German, former West German Polish, Dutch, French, American…….. Let’s face it, NATO or PACT groupie, would wet themselves if a CMSF could be done that modeled a NATO vs PACT conflict circa 1979-1988, period! Mechanized ARMY’s at their grand peek slogging it out to see who will control Europe. Just sayin………………

Johnnie gets his IPM1 vs Ivan’s T-80B. Tolga gets his Leopard 1A1 vs Slava’s T-64A. Gunter get his Leopard II against Pavel’s T-72K, tell me this is not a winner for BF?

Agreeing with you.

Michael

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I would like the 1985 thing too except I to this day still find it terrifying to contemplate the what-if. As a US Army dependent/brat in Europe in the 50's and 60's, my friends and I lived in constant worry that the real balloon might go up someday; we dependent families were actually being prepared for it by the Army with various exercises, rehearsals and training programs. Then, in the 80's, I was in the military myself and got to worry about it in a different light, as a potential protagonist and not simply a bystander.

OK, its just a game, but it is still creepy for me nonetheless. (Which doesn't mean I wouldn't buy it, I'd just have to have a healthy toot of my favorite libation before sitting down to play.)

BTW did I mention that I married "one of the enemy?" :D My (formerly Ukrainian) wife served in the Red Army about the same time that I was in the US Navy, chasing her country's submarines all over the place. Life is a hoot.

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And when I am feeling hardcore, I break the Steelbeasts Pro PE and play all my 1985 scenarios, with all the mods I have done for 1985 and race around in my M1.

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Id like 80s. Also would REALLY like (and think it'd be more  likely since BFC could take current models from end of war west and east in CM) West vs East 45/46...

60s/70s/80s would all be interesting too.

I dont say 50s. Id go for it happily, but IIRC US doctrine was Nukes nukes nukes

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Actually, I'd say it's the norm. Or at least if it didn't start out being nuts it got to be nuts. In fact, my father-in-law and I were talking briefly about the real reasons behind The Crusades. The upper classes had to get their spices for rotting meats and silk for undies, no matter how many poor bastards had to be tricked into dying for a false cause.

Steve

 

Nah, I believe the Crusades were the result of too much fighting spirit at the time. Power was displayed by fighting, and it caused too much destruction locally, so the Church redirected some of that energy elsewhere. (no harvest, no church taxes).

 

Even here, in Frisia, where there were no Counts or higher authority then village bosses, those who could afford it built a ship to sail to the Mediterranean to go and fight and prove their courage. Otherwise those village bosses were campaigning each summer against each other.

 

At the second half of the 13th century so much silver had been spent on those crusades, that they couldn't afford to import food during bad harvest years, while during the centuries before there was usually enough money available.

 

If they had just wanted the luxury items, they could have bought those with all that money easily.

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