Camera Controls - Are they being improved?

[Destraex1]

Are their being improvements made to the camera system within all the major tweaks happening?

Do you agree though that games like Ruse, Sins of a Solar Empire and WargameEE may be up the top for smooth mouse control, but in addition almost all RTS games are still superior in their camera control to this game.

For some reason the devs went with the same system that Jutland by SES uses. The edges of the screen are split into sections that do different things. It means say that once your mouse hits the left hand side of the screen their are three directions the camera may fly off in according to what part of the side you hit. This means if you miss its frustrating. It feels un-natural. Additionally most RTS games camera will pan left or right or head forwards diagonally if you move the mouse into a corner, in CM the game will move the camera up or to the side. Their is no slowing or speeding up according to how fast you are pushing the mouse. Which again makes seems to make it harder to get to where you want to go. Maybe its just that in other games I am used to being able to control the camera so naturally with the tap of a mouse, nothing more. Because the mouse is so quick on other games.

Also feels un-natural as the mouse is not that smooth on my system and it can take time to get to the edges.

The solution could be that instead of enjoying the camera movement as I do in other games that I start using keys and mouse to try to aim for where I want to go like I am playing an FPS. However I do not have to do this in other RTS games and the workload is many times less and its much more relaxing to play because of this. I find that other FPS games like total war are very easy to manipulate with mouse only. Which leaves a hand free to do other things.

IMHO they just got it wrong, its an immature system or they just don't have the resources due to staff or memory requirements to get it right. However it could also just be that my computer cannot handle it.

But really other games seem to allow you to use the mouse really well even when the game is stuttering. Like they give the mouse the highest priority for resources.

I will have to try it when I get a new rig for comparison.

My rig is getting on but exceeds the SUGGESTED (not minimum) system requirements to play the game smoothly.

Q6600

6gig ram

gt460 video card

win7 pro 64bit

Mini Whinge and Wishlisting over

Please do not see this as an attack but rather constructive feedback.

[Baneman]

Once I learned to use the mouse for camera work ie. Hold left button, tracks left/right, hold right button, swings left/right, it all became rather easy.

Give it a try, it's quite natural.

[Destraex1]

I will try your method. However this sounds like I am operating a wharf crane rather than a camera. I am used to just naturally flying to exactly where I want to go quickly and then maybe making one minor adjustment.

[MikeyD]

Between the mouse controls and mousewheel, the elevation numbers (keyboard 1, 2, 3 etc), plus option-mouseclick for jumping directy to map locations, movement within the game is hassle-free. Many players have entirely edited out the keyboard movement controls from the command key list in order to free the keys up for other uses.

[ZPB II]

Hhmm, I find the CMx2 camera system to be splendid when used with the mouse, horrible if used with the keyboard. Using the, I'm not sure if I remember right since I haven't played in a bit, control key to move the camera the the location where you click and using the mouse to rotate/adjust the camera fits all my needs, quick and precise.

[Vinnart]

I think CM has the best camera I have used to date. No game I have ever played has offered as much control, and available views. The camera is often a game breaker decision for me in whether I will get a game or not. When CMSF first came out I would not get it till they fixed the preset camera views. Once they did I got it. The CM camera, and control in general are different than the way most RTS games I have played so it takes some getting used to when one starts playing it, but after awhile it feels very right, and comfortable. I wouldn’t change it.

[c3k]

I have always used the method Baneman described. It has allowed me to zoom in an a shell being ejected from a rifle such that the cartridge filled my entire 24" screen. Then I zoomed out, clicked up, and I could see every unit in my battalion and all known enemy units in an area measuring several square kilometers.

If that's bad camera control, I can't wait to see the good stuff.

Ken

[Battlefront.com]

We do plan on expanding the customization of camera controls for Upgrade 3.0. Unfortunately we didn't finish the backend work to make that possible for Upgrade 2.0. But we did work on it some. It's just that the original code was never designed to handle completely different methods of input as have been requested. So it's not as easy as providing some editable values for you guys to play with.

One thing that should always be kept in mind is that one game's input scheme might be great for that game, but horrid for another. Here's the best example I can give...

Can anybody here think of FPS controls being used successfully for a 3rd person RTS experience? How about vice versa? No, each has its own needs and that changes the way the controls work. Combat Mission has the unusual distinction of being neither FPS nor RTS, but yet appealing to players of both. Which means it is understandable that people want to see FPS or RTS standards available to them in CM. We do intend on getting there eventually.

Steve

[womble]

One thing that no one's mentioned that quieted many of my gripes with the camera is that you can strafe and advance/retreat the camera using the arrow keys. And you can rotate the view using the mouseclicks.

So, I have a G700 mouse. I have bound forward and back to two thumb buttons, and left and right to the sidescrolling tilt of the mousewheel. Combining these and mouse rotation I have pretty much got a free-flying camera, with my left hand to hit hotkeys for orders (or if the cat's sitting on my desk pinning my arm, some of the other mouse buttons are fast/quick/slow, target, target light and Tab).

Remaining issues are:

• Overshoot: often rotating does not stop immediately I let go of the mouse button.
  
• I would like a "level 0" view option that puts me at a viewpoint of the unit. Continuing to press 0 would cycle me through "pairs of eyes".
  
• I would like some sort of "ctrl-click-to-look-at" function rather than "ctrl-click-to-observe-from-a-point-above, as now.
  
• I would like Tab, with no unit selected, to invert the rotate, as it does when you have a unit selected.
  
• I would like to be able to turn off screen edge scrolling; using my "free camera" approach gets badly disrupted after a while, as the mouse wanders towards the screen edge.
  

[A Canadian Cat]

Oh OK I'll put my 2 cents in too.

I agree that often the click drag camera move is to slow for long distances. It would be nice if the further from the start point I pull the faster the camera moves. Actually I think it does this now we just need more speed, please.

I often alternate between the keyboard and the mouse to move the camera. I use what ever is convenient for me at the time. However the keyboard move is sometimes really really really sluggish and often inconsistent. It would be great if that were smoothed out.

I never use the "move the camera when the mouse is at the edge of the screen" feature. I find these controls very hard to deal with and I *hate* them. Mostly because many times I have the camera just where I want it and am about to take action when suddenly the screen flys off in a funny direction. Yes, I have pushed the mouse aside again and messed up my life. Please, please remove that functionality. Or if there are people who like that feature, at least allow me to turn it off. Is there anyone who likes to move the camera that way?

[Battlefront.com]

I agree that often the click drag camera move is to slow for long distances. It would be nice if the further from the start point I pull the faster the camera moves. Actually I think it does this now we just need more speed, please.

It's been in there since... hmm... I think CMSF v1.0. What do I mean? Try CTRL-LEFT CLICK on a distant location and the camera immediately jumps to it. Then you use normal camera behavior for more precise placement.

Is there anyone who likes to move the camera that way?

I do Now, do I use it exclusively? No. I tend to use it when I just want to nudge the camera position a bit. Maybe it's just old habits from decades of gaming, but I definitely do use it.

Steve

[A Canadian Cat]

It's been in there since... hmm... I think CMSF v1.0. What do I mean? Try CTRL-LEFT CLICK on a distant location and the camera immediately jumps to it. Then you use normal camera behavior for more precise placement.

I learned about the CTRL-LEFT click thing recently and have tried it (but I keep forgetting about it since I am not used to it).

I do Now, do I use it exclusively? No. I tend to use it when I just want to nudge the camera position a bit. Maybe it's just old habits from decades of gaming, but I definitely do use it.

I figured *someone* would be using it. I guess I should expect it to stay in the game then

[Fizou]

Took a litle time getting used to moving frpm cmx1 but after the normal adjustion period I find the controls being as good as in any other game. The mouse is ofcourse key.

[Apocalypse 31]

I think CM has the best camera I have used to date. No game I have ever played has offered as much control, and available views. The camera is often a game breaker decision for me in whether I will get a game or not. When CMSF first came out I would not get it till they fixed the preset camera views. Once they did I got it. The CM camera, and control in general are different than the way most RTS games I have played so it takes some getting used to when one starts playing it, but after awhile it feels very right, and comfortable. I wouldn’t change it.

You don't play many games, do you?

[ChrisND]

You don't play many games, do you?

Wow that is slick. Other than the cool zooming features, it looks like it handles like CM's camera at lower CM-level altitudes. I've never played it though, so it might just be an illusion from the video.

[Ranger33]

My main problem is that the camera is just agonizingly slow. There wouldn't be any need for half a dozen camera hotkeys if it just moved faster. In Shogun 2 you can zip all over the map, zoom in on two guys fighting each other, spin the camera around, survey the whole battle again, and so on in just a matter of a few seconds. Im on my phone or I would find a video.

[Steiner14]

I'm missing the SHIFT+7 180 degree turn.

[sfhand]

I've been using left and right click for a little while now (with mouse wheel too), I started with and still use wsad plus qe and rf keys too and combine them with the cursor at the edge of screen for really fast camera movement.

[womble]

I'm missing the SHIFT+7 180 degree turn.

I'm not sure it's the default key (I jiggered with my Hotkeys.txt), but \ does that for me. It's a good key because it's near Ctrl, so "Ctrl-click" over there, and "\" to look back is quite useful and fast.

[ZPB II]

I'm using the default hotkeys and when I press "V" it does a 180 degree turn.

[Sergei]

I've mapped that to my mouse.

[Steiner14]

:eek: It's there?! Thanks!

[Destraex1]

My main problem is that the camera is just agonizingly slow. There wouldn't be any need for half a dozen camera hotkeys if it just moved faster. In Shogun 2 you can zip all over the map, zoom in on two guys fighting each other, spin the camera around, survey the whole battle again, and so on in just a matter of a few seconds. Im on my phone or I would find a video.

Agreed I am also a big total war player.

RomeII is going to be ... just wow!

[Erwin]

Am puzzled why the cntrl left click method of getting to a desired location doesn't work as well as in CM1. One used to be able to do that and go to level one and exactly where one wanted to be. In CM2, I almost always find myself somewhere I don't want to be. Hope that can get fixed one day.