John Kettler Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Bil Hardenberger, I understand completely, but I wish it weren't so. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 The Twenty-Third Minute Okay this is really getting frustrating. All I can do is position my assets in the best possible locations and give them a chance to spot that damned T30. But what is happening, is that he is spotting me immediately and getting a couple shots off and I never do spot him. This is a huge boxy object spitting flame.. I now have multiple weapon systems with eyes on his location and none can spot him. The T30 is not hull down to my Pz-III by the way.. it is sitting fat and happy in clear view.. or what should be clear view. My Pz-III was partial hull down (moving back to hull down after a 30 second pause), it was hit once before it moved, and again after it was in a true hull down position. That T30 is performing way over its head and even my Pz III can't spot him. My Brixia mortar never spotted the hulk either. Luckily damage was minimal. Good news is that I now have another Pz-III in a good partial hull down position with eyes on the T30's location. So that gives me four weapons systems with a chance to take that bastard out... two Pz-IIIs, the Brixia, and my indirect 81mm mortar fire. Bad news is that this turn the 81mm mortar again only fired a spotting round, and this one much closer to the T30.. so I'm afraid that surprise has been blown... hopefully though it will cause ND to un-ass the area with the T30 thus making it easier to spot. We shall see... On the other side of the map not much happened... my Pz-III pulled back safely into the treeline out of LOS from his Sherman. I am starting to get nervous with my entire infantry squad online in this woodline, so am slowly pulling two teams back and only leaving one on line to provide eyes on the rear slopes leading to the Orchard and the Villa. I can pull them back up quickly if needed. I'm afraid ND might have spotted me and I don't want to lose the entire squad to either fire from his Sherman or to artillery. Until I can kill at least one T30 I am not comfortable making the decision to throw my infantry into the fray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Duh, what was that again? Michael Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Two out of three ain't bad though. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 The Twenty-Fourth Minute ND was able to pull his T30 out of position without my units spotting him (of course)..and my 81mm mortar rounds fell on empty ground. Good use of Artillery there Bil. I did spot his other T30 turning around and seemingly heading for the other side of the Villa.. perhaps to work in conjunction with the one he just pulled back? They would be a tougher nut in pairs that's for sure. On my right, again it appears I have not really pulled my Pz-III back far enough... again it will be moving backwards.. hopefully the Sherman hasn't seen it... I think it might have though. Now that the T30 is out of position I think I am going to start maneuvering my infantry next turn... I will lay out how I am going to deploy them in my next post. I have to start making something happen... this game is turning into a slogging match that I am losing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Bil Hardenberger, Appreciate the update, but I oopsed! The T30 is NOT equipped with the Soixante Quinze but the vastly lower velocity 75 mm howitzer, a major gaffe on my part. In doing some unrelated research, I discovered the T-30 has a vulnerability you may be able to exploit. The gun shield is only proof against .30 cal AP rounds down to 250 yards, so you may be able to hose one of your tormentors. Also, it occurs to me that the German HEAT round was not very accurate at all and consequently wasn't used beyond ~400 meters. Did the same hold true for the T30's HEAT round? At what range is he engaging you, please? Regards, JOhn Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The T-30 and M3 GMC are rather vulnerable to small arms. I had my brave Italian Guastatori (my current favorite formation, the MAB38 rules) storm several of them in an intense wooded town battle, albeit at a noticeable cost in manpower. I want to know what the company commander told his men before he sent them sprinting in different directions trying to spread his men so they make harder targets. Half the men in the company ended up dead, but that's a whole different story about some dug-in paratroopers. I've also lost more crewmen than I care to count when I place them at what I think is a safe distance when playing US. The M3 GMC has the Soixante-Quinze which is clear and present danger for all lesser German armor. I just noticed the T30 carries WP rounds. I'm interested in testing these against a Tiger. EDIT: Ran some really quick tests, couldn't get the WP to get the crew to bail, but caused only system damage and suppression. Hard to get direct hits since you can only area target smoke. 75mm HEAT is very effective against the Tiger, but only from the sides. From the rear the engine block absorbs most of the energy. You will immobilize the Tiger immediately, but fail to cause significant damage to the crew compartment before the turret swivels around. From the side the HEAT is devastating if it hits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ZBP II, What, pray tell, are Guastatori, let alone the unit in the parentheses? I've barely gotten CMBN and don't have this one. As for WP, the kills I know of from World War II were the result of setting outer gear (the crew's) on fire, then having the ventilators suck in the smoke. Crew thinks the tank's on fire, so departs in great haste. Happened when a Sherman ran into a King Tiger, but difficult to model. Concerning 75mm HEAT vs a Tiger 1, the slab sides are its downfall at engagement angles close to perpendicular. What most people don't know, though, is that all those brackets, flanges and whatnot on a tank are sufficient to detonate a HEAT projectile, frequently nullifying it. I know this because I got to see the imagery of tanks hit during the 1967 War, and this was quite a shock to the tank damage assessors for the JMEM (Joint Munitions Effectiveness Manuals). Time and again, potentially lethal hits were undone by things like headlight guards and lifting eyes. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Bil Hardenberger, Also, it occurs to me that the German HEAT round was not very accurate at all and consequently wasn't used beyond ~400 meters. Did the same hold true for the T30's HEAT round? At what range is he engaging you, please? Hey John, abut 500m separated the T30 from my Pz-IIIs.. a little farther to the Semovente. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The T30s are P'ing me off and I'm only reading about them. What about some good old fashion small arms fire to get the T30's crew to keep their heads down? Then go for the keel with the panzer(s). Have you got a HMG available, maybe get some penetrating hits? Good luck. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Fenris... well pretty long range for small arms to have any effect. An MG for sure could help and I am setting up on the hill with a few MG teams that will be able to cover that area. Really its the spotting, or lack of it, that is killing me here.. I need to increase the odds of getting a spot on those things, my mind is working on how to do that. Stay tuned. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Bil, You bet we are staying tuned. This is really good stuff and I am enjoying it greatly. Your screen shots are excellent and keeping us right in the thick of things. +1 to Fenris - those T30s are hacking me off too. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 The Twenty-Fifth Minute Quiet turn.. soon to get noisy I think. Final reinforcements finally arrived. I now have a pretty good selection of equipment, here is a layout of my reinforcements up to this time: One thing I know how to handle is Pz-IVs against Shermans (see my CMBN AAR).. so I was happy to see five of them come in. Also the Grilles will be fun to play with.. very limited ammunition load outs though so I need to pick and choose their targets carefully. Orders for the next turn.. I am taking advantage of the one T30 being out of position and the other maneuvering, to redeploy one of my Pz-IIIs. I am pushing it very far forward into Key terrain 4 (KT4). This will hopefully get me better visibility on the slopes surrounding the Villa and will pave the way for my mounted infantry who are also moving into KT4 and setting up for an assault, which will follow very closely on my artillery striking the Villa and Hill. I have adjusted my 105 battery to delay their strike a few turns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Bill, you might bare in mind poesel71's spotting test which suggests movement and firing do NOT affect the chance of spotting. This might explain the T-30's ability to remain 'cloaked' after firing. I still cannot get my head around a pack howitzer scoring two first round hits on a partially, then fully, hull down, small aspect target at 500m. How many rounds does your artillery have? Would it be viable for you to lay smoke, to conceal an advance, and still have enough to neutralise the defenders? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 That's very interesting... I still cannot get my head around a pack howitzer scoring two first round hits on a partially, then fully, hull down, small aspect target at 500m. Me too... that thing has been pretty damned accurate for a weapon firing over basically iron sights at a small target over 500m away. How many rounds does your artillery have? Would it be viable for you to lay smoke, to conceal an advance, and still have enough to neutralise the defenders? I will have to check the number of available rounds for you tonight. I'm committed to an HE strike at this point anyway.. which will do better than smoke IMO... it will 1. force the defenders to take cover, and 2. If ND follows his normal SOP he will evacuate the Hill objective before it starts to fall which could give me a chance to get a foothold there. I'm setting up for a big push on the Villa and the Hill in the next several turns... I have a lot of motorized infantry now and hope to use the speed of the trucks while the artillery is falling to deploy as close to the objectives as possible. Either I'll get toe holds or I'll lose the battle right there.. we shall see soon enough. Bil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ZBP II, What, pray tell, are Guastatori, let alone the unit in the parentheses? I've barely gotten CMBN and don't have this one Regards, John Kettler The Guastatori are, to the best of my knowledge, some sort of elite assault engineers and they seem to have the best equipment. A platoon comes with an LMG team, a mortar and a generous sprinkling of SMGs. The MAB38 is the Beretta 9mm SMG, apparently the finest single piece in the Italian inventory. It's rare but when it goes blakablakablatblat you better duck! And, oh sweet, a wild Grille appears! That 150mm is beastly. (I'm trying to find information on the Guastatori but everything is in Italian and Google Translate leaves behind a garbled mess. But it seems they were pretty hardcore.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The Guastatori are, to the best of my knowledge, some sort of elite assault engineers... To the best of my knowledge, that's exactly what they were. Unlike US combat engineers, they had little or no special construction training or equipment. They were expected to be in the front lines supporting and some times leading the attack. But my information is very sketchy, so the issue is still open. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This link may help. http://www.comandosupremo.com/forums/topic/6344-guastatori-di-fanteria/ They seem to have been given the hardest missions and often succeeded, albeit with heavy losses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This link may help. http://www.comandosupremo.com/forums/topic/6344-guastatori-di-fanteria/ They seem to have been given the hardest missions and often succeeded, albeit with heavy losses. Thanks for the link! I'm glad to know I'm using them realistically! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ZBP II, Sucks they have no flame weapons in this game. Rather defangs them! Vark, Nice link! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 ... oh sweet, a wild Grille appears! That 150mm is beastly. Until it takes a mortar round through the open crew compartment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javaslinger Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Very much enjoying your AAR! I'm curious about your feeling on the spotting issues. Does it seem, odd, buggy, unusually unlucky, or just normal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Until it takes a mortar round through the open crew compartment. Quite the fascinating coincidence. :confused: Take a wild guess what happened on the first turn in a QB where I bought a Grille for the first time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Very much enjoying your AAR! I'm curious about your feeling on the spotting issues. Does it seem, odd, buggy, unusually unlucky, or just normal? Thanks. Well I do think the spotting issues I have been having with the T30s, especially the one does not seem normal.. I wouldn't go so far as to say buggy. But they do seem awfully stealthy to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Quite the fascinating coincidence. :confused: Take a wild guess what happened on the first turn in a QB where I bought a Grille for the first time. Snicker. That must have pissed you off 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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