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The Road Ahead

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Can I establish an Automatic Withdrawal Account with BFC??

I will give you my bank account number, the name and birthdate of my first born son.

Automatically ship me the games/modules as it becomes available.

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Can I establish an Automatic Withdrawal Account with BFC??

I will give you my bank account number, the name and birthdate of my first born son.

Automatically ship me the games/modules as it becomes available.

And PACKS!

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This is probably the best wargaming news day there has been in a long while. I am really looking forward to CMSF2. Don't get me wrong, I love CMBN and Italy is going to be a day one buy for me just for the area involved, I have played more CMSF then any of the series and this is like a dream come true to finally square off against the russians in the CM arena!!!!

Keep up the outstanding work.

Well said..agree 100%. Though I'm really looking forward to CMEF, however boy have I missed those modern toys in CMSF. Considering I was never into modern warfare thats saying something.

So with NATO vs Russia we will have evenly matched foes with hi tech weapon systems. LOADS OF TOYS!

The MG module is a may buy one day purchase. Italy will be bough to keep me going for EF and SF2. CMBN will be relegated I'm afraid, doubt I will even bother with the upgrade unless I suddenly get a calling for another MG game and buy the MG module aswell.

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This is all great news, I was getting worried that we would not get to the EF until 2016.

I would love to see a bone about BF's thoughts on developing an operational campaign system along the lines of what was attempted with cmc. This would be a great paid upgrade or something to think about for cmsf2.

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I would love to see a bone about BF's thoughts on developing an operational campaign system along the lines of what was attempted with cmc.

They've offered their thoughts on this many times actually. That thought has always consisted of "Nope, we're not crazy." ;)

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Sigh, I'm still confused...

So if I purchase CMFI, does that automatically convey the 2.0 goodness to my base CMBN install?

If I purchase CMFI, I would still need to purchase the 2.0 upgrade for CMBN to be able to play Market Garden / The Bulge / Eastern Front modules correct?

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Sigh, I'm still confused...

So if I purchase CMFI, does that automatically convey the 2.0 goodness to my base CMBN install?

If I purchase CMFI, I would still need to purchase the 2.0 upgrade for CMBN to be able to play Market Garden / The Bulge / Eastern Front modules correct?

All Families are independent so no you do not automatically get 2.0 on CMBN when you buy CMFI. CMBN will go to ver 2 prior to or upon the release of CM MG or whatever the next module will be called. How they price that I don't think they have fully determined yet, but so far it seems a bundled upgrade/module would give you a discount.

The Bulge and East Front would be separate families, you do not ever need to upgrade CMBN to play them in whatever version they come out in. Look at it this way. You can still play CMSF though CMBN is a different version and from the sound of it CMSF will never go to version 2.

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I guess so then is MG / The Bulge / Eastern Front separate "families" like FI? I assumed they were add-on modules like CW.

Thanks for clarifying, theres a lot of permutations now!

MG is a module for CMBN just like CW, hence the upgrade probably being bundled. Bulge, Eastern Front 1944 are separate families.

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Correct. The Upgrade concept does nothing to change the existing way we develop games. Families are distinct and different from each other. They always start out with a Base Game and then have addons (Modules/Packs) to enhance/expand the Base Game. A Every time we produce an Upgrade (probably roughly once a year) you guys can opt in and buy the Upgrade if you want. If you don't want to, that won't change anything you already have. But you won't be able to add new content/features to that Family.

There is no such thing as one overall game engine, for all genres of all types, that can be upgraded. There's no mixing Abrams with Panthers, Volksgrenadiers with US Marines. Which means you have to upgrade each Family you own individually.

Now, if you are a new customer then you won't have to worry. Once we produce an Upgrade for a Family it is rolled into what we're currently selling. Meaning if you purchase Fortress Italy it is already Version 2.0. No Upgrade needed. If you purchase Battle for Normandy a few months after Upgrade 2.0 is out, you won't need to Upgrade because at that time Normandy will be at Version 2.0 already.

Steve

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I can't add anything that hasn't already been said, although this is one time when a "me too!" post is warranted. I'm thrilled to hear I won't have to wait too much longer for EF. But I can have my cake and eat it too, looks like there will be a Mac version of CMSF sooner or later, whether it is the v1 (announced some time ago) or the new upcoming v2.

Thanks for the heads-up on "the road ahead", all I can say is if you can crank these out at the anticipated rate you will have guaranteed revenue flow. I will buy all of it.

Have you considered some kind of subscription model? e.g. X dollars buys everything released in the next 12 months, perhaps with early access (beta) to upcoming projects. Like a loyalty club...

cheers

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We have considered a subscription model, but it's a complicated thing to make work for us financially because there are so many variables month to month, year to year. Could also turn out to be a really bad deal for you guys if there are a bunch of delays. Therefore, don't expect a subscription service from us.

Steve

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The one problem I have with this whole concept is that it may fragment the entire base. With upgrades, families, modules and now packs how is one to keep,up with all changes? Some of my favourite things have been the mods. How will a modder be able to keep up with all changes? They need to consider modules and versions and scenario builders need to take this into account as well as multiple packs.

I should not have a problem as I do plan on buying most of the items but it could become a logistical nightmare. I wish you well though as this is an extremely ambitious plan and one that will make us very happy.

The way it looks though, one could spend upward of $250/year on this. I am all guessing on the prices but (2 families x $70, an upgrade $10, 2 modules x $30 and 2 packs at $20). Worth it for the sheer enjoyment but boy, my wife may want more furniture just to compensate.

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The one problem I have with this whole concept is that it may fragment the entire base. With upgrades, families, modules and now packs how is one to keep,up with all changes? Some of my favourite things have been the mods. How will a modder be able to keep up with all changes? They need to consider modules and versions and scenario builders need to take this into account as well as multiple packs.

I should not have a problem as I do plan on buying most of the items but it could become a logistical nightmare. I wish you well though as this is an extremely ambitious plan and one that will make us very happy.

The way it looks though, one could spend upward of $250/year on this. I am all guessing on the prices but (2 families x $70, an upgrade $10, 2 modules x $30 and 2 packs at $20). Worth it for the sheer enjoyment but boy, my wife may want more furniture just to compensate.

Modding is going to be a bit touchy. I am planning on pulling my entire Z folder prior to a ver 2 upgrade for CMBN. What mods will work and what won't is unclear (there was a comment that one of Vein's mods works across CMBN and CMSF), but for surety I am planning on moving everything then sorting it out. Bummer as I have a whole folder complex by unit that has Mord and DCs portraits, uniform and helmet mods, vehicle mods etc but once we get to version 2 I wouldn't necessarily expect version 3 to change the models again.

As to money, well who knows. If you figure by next year will be 3-4 game families and maybe an upgrade per year, that upgrade would be per family. If you look down the road say 3 years and you have maybe 7+ families the upgrades start getting to be a larger chunk assuming you are interested in all families. When we get to that point maybe BFC will consider bundling upgrades so CMBN, CMFI, CMBulge, CM EF 1 all come as a bundled price otherwise the older you are in the fan base, the more expensive it starts getting.

Too early to worry about that though, I need to go wipe the drool off my keyboard just thinking about what the next 12 months hold in store.

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Now, if you are a new customer then you won't have to worry. Once we produce an Upgrade for a Family it is rolled into what we're currently selling. Meaning if you purchase Fortress Italy it is already Version 2.0. No Upgrade needed. If you purchase Battle for Normandy a few months after Upgrade 2.0 is out, you won't need to Upgrade because at that time Normandy will be at Version 2.0 already.

I was fine up to this point, now I'm confused.

I understand that Fortress Italy will be coming as 2.0 - I see this as a taste test for the 2.0 features. After this at some point we can upgrade CMBN with the 2.0 features. Awesome, sounds great.

But from what I'm gathering from the quoted text is that CMBN will be upgraded to 2.0 (as default on purchase) a few months after 2.0 is out?

If that is correct, does this mean CMBN's price tag will be increased to reflect the new features?

For example, it currently costs $45 (well 55 minus the saving), and let's just say the upgrade costs $10. Someone who buys the game today has to pay $55 for the game + upgrade. But in a few months time, when 2.0 is applied for new customers, will those customers pay more or less than $55?

I'm fairly sure I am wrong somewhere along the line, and please correct me if that's the case. But to me it's currently sounding like we'll be paying for the upgrade simply to have it a few months before those who have waited before buying.

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BFC can't exactly make money when people buy a single product then play it continually for ten years, like the Willy Wonka 'Everlasting Gobstopper' that never loses its flavor (or like CMBO ;)). The standard business model requires that they sell 'product' and that they ocassionally generate fresh product for sale. Yes, this is very old fashioned. The new look is more of a 'parasitic' business model where companies find sneaky ways to continually bleed you of $$$, like certain unnamed online games. :D

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But to me it's currently sounding like we'll be paying for the upgrade simply to have it a few months before those who have waited before buying.

I believe that is correct, but I'll have had the game and been playing it for well over a year. They have said they will likely bundle it with the MG module so the price to upgrade may not be all that extreme. We'll have to wait and see.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in that as it can really warp your mind. If you wait 3 years to buy it you could potentially save on the cost of 3 upgrades... Is that something you'd really consider? I'd say wait until we actually are looking at the MG module/upgrade and then we'll know what is truly being planned.

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we'll be paying for the upgrade simply to have it a few months before those who have waited before buying.

You're making a logical error. Its like paying to have an air conditioning package installed in your old car while the redesigned 2013 models are rolling off the assembly line with AC preinstalled. Installing AC in an old car and buying a new car with AC in it are two unrelated acts, though admittedly the end result in both cases is a car with AC in it. :)

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Mikey, with all due respect that analogy doesn't help me at all.

If I were asking to pay to install the AC in the old car, yeah I'd be insane - My question is whether or not it comes as standard a few years later. If we cross back to compare it to the games, people who buy the game and then the upgrade are essentially buying a brand new car that has no AC, then waiting a few months for AC to be released and paying to have it installed.

Meanwhile, I am asking if I can ignore all that, wait for AC to become standard, and then just buy the car with it installed.

Anyway all of that isn't important - I am simply asking if there will be a price increase for the game if it comes with 2.0 included. If that is the case, that is perfectly fine with me and would make sense.

Though if for some reason waiting will result in the game being the same price as it is the day on release, and you get the 2.0 features at no extra cost - Well it'll be a simple decision for someone like me who doesn't have the time to play a full CM game before the next one is released.

Please people - I know it might seem like I'm being anti-BF, and that it's like a red rag to a bull on these forums, but try to remember I am just one person who is confunsed and trying to get a simple answer. I am not speaking negatively - I just want to know if I can save some money, and time, by waiting before picking up my copies.

Not to mention being in the EU I've read about the unfortunate issue with regards to shipping - So a wait might result in saving some more money there.

If you wait 3 years to buy it you could potentially save on the cost of 3 upgrades... Is that something you'd really consider?

Yes.

I know it sounds strange to some, but I don't play CM exclusively and between other games, the wife, and responsibilities - I simply wouldn't have time to play all these games in full anyway. If I'd save money by getting them as pre-orders or on the day of release then I would probably choose that option and just leave them for when I get the chance to play. However if waiting means I save money and time spent trying to play all of them at once..Then it's a no brainer.

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Not sure why it will fragment the base at all, as I'm sure at some point most of us will end up buying all the theaters, though CMSF2 will probably be left out by the WW2 nuts (I was one myself till I played CMSF).

Nor will it upset modding. Plenty to go around. I'm sure people here buy way more games than just BF ones and they still have the time for BF games, BF releasing more CM's just means they'll be buying BF games rather than other ones.

Also people worrying about money, it's not like you have to buy them all straight away. You have years to buy them when you please.

Also cut back on other games you buy, blimey it's little output for a hobby compared to most. A football season ticket will set you back probably around £400 or more and thats just for a season.

People are worrying way to much. Take CMBN for instance, I barely play it and haven't bought the CW module. So I'm not around much. However I will be buying the Italy game EF and SF2. So I will be playing more and may even venture into some modding. I expect a few are like me where Normandy just doesn't do it and was bought because it was the only WW2 CMx2. yet they will return once other games come out to fill up the respective bases. Also you'll get the EF heads coming in who never bothered with BN. So no I can't see the base being fragmented at all. I for one will be spending as much time in the EF forums as I will in the SF2 ones. Though little time in the BN forums which would make no difference as I sepnd little time there anyway.

As for CMBN upgrade I doubt it will break the bank and I wouldn't begrudge paying extra even if the version 2 CMBN is sold at the same price as the current one. If I really wnated the upgrades I'd be happy to pay, as I'm not really bothered then I wont.

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Mikey, with all due respect that analogy doesn't help me at all.

If I were asking to pay to install the AC in the old car, yeah I'd be insane - My question is whether or not it comes as standard a few years later. If we cross back to compare it to the games, people who buy the game and then the upgrade are essentially buying a brand new car that has no AC, then waiting a few months for AC to be released and paying to have it installed.

Meanwhile, I am asking if I can ignore all that, wait for AC to become standard, and then just buy the car with it installed.

Anyway all of that isn't important - I am simply asking if there will be a price increase for the game if it comes with 2.0 included. If that is the case, that is perfectly fine with me and would make sense.

Though if for some reason waiting will result in the game being the same price as it is the day on release, and you get the 2.0 features at no extra cost - Well it'll be a simple decision for someone like me who doesn't have the time to play a full CM game before the next one is released.

Please people - I know it might seem like I'm being anti-BF, and that it's like a red rag to a bull on these forums, but try to remember I am just one person who is confunsed and trying to get a simple answer. I am not speaking negatively - I just want to know if I can save some money, and time, by waiting before picking up my copies.

Not to mention being in the EU I've read about the unfortunate issue with regards to shipping - So a wait might result in saving some more money there.

Yes.

I know it sounds strange to some, but I don't play CM exclusively and between other games, the wife, and responsibilities - I simply wouldn't have time to play all these games in full anyway. If I'd save money by getting them as pre-orders or on the day of release then I would probably choose that option and just leave them for when I get the chance to play. However if waiting means I save money and time spent trying to play all of them at once..Then it's a no brainer.

Ha I wouldn't worry about waving the red flag, we all understand (or should anyway) budget constraints etc. Regards shipping in EU, I wouldn't bother with physical copy. I expect manual printing will continue to be something BF does not expend a lot of effort on so it comes down to simply getting a disc. You could just as easily store the game to a USB drive.

If I didn't already have the game I'd likely consider waiting for the ver 2.0 release, but then would kick myself if the MG module and DL bundle only means a difference of $5. That was what I meant by waiting to see how things sort out. We are all just kind of guessing until BFC decides a dollar value and what possible bundled savings with a module might apply.

And you are probably right about the factor of how much time you actually have to play. I am sure there will be plenty of folks who do not get all the various familes as they are released. I won't be in that bunch, CM is wargamer Crack for me. I think that is what the "C" really stands for....

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